Itzulia Basque Country 2021 ***Spoilers***
Comments
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rick_chasey said:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/trentin-hits-back-at-rider-criticism-of-uci-super-tuck-ban/blazing_saddles said:I saw several riders fling bottles at the start of the climb, but I also someone who might well have been an official holding out a non-Basque, red flag.
Let's face it, we know how dumb the UCI can be, but even they must have realised that riders were going to want to discard any excess weight before tackling a final climb with those gradients.
Meanwhile, the CPA aren't prepared to take things lying down.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riders-fight-against-punishment-for-throwing-bottles-to-roadside-fans/
I've seen these quotes about riders not opening the email before, and it strikes me as pretty passive aggressive. I work in Web development, and for some terrible crimes I must have committed in a past life, have to help marketers with tracking effectiveness of campaigns over various mediums. The stats on how many open emails (as well as being difficult to be sure of) are used to measure effectiveness of communication. If people aren't reading your emails you need to find out why, not blame them for not taking an interest. *Especially* if you're their union rep asking for feedback on a topic that's likely to be highly contentious.rick_chasey said:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/trentin-hits-back-at-rider-criticism-of-uci-super-tuck-ban/blazing_saddles said:I saw several riders fling bottles at the start of the climb, but I also someone who might well have been an official holding out a non-Basque, red flag.
Let's face it, we know how dumb the UCI can be, but even they must have realised that riders were going to want to discard any excess weight before tackling a final climb with those gradients.
Meanwhile, the CPA aren't prepared to take things lying down.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riders-fight-against-punishment-for-throwing-bottles-to-roadside-fans/
I've not seen the mails (obviously) but if the title is "minutes of the nth committee for bureaucratic time wasting" it's probably going in the trash, whereas "DQ FOR DROPPING BIDONS FOR FANS?!" might get a little more attention.
Of course, if they're using a tracking system they're probably also using a mass mailing system, which can potentially get their mails thrown straight in the spam folder anyway...Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Some decent climbers have a gap of about 3 minutes to the rest. (I'm assuming the guy from Quito can climb a bit.)0
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McNutty and Landa away off the front, but only about 10 seconds clear on the climb.
Plenty dropped, Carapaz just has no form.0 -
Possible broken/strained finger for Carapaz apparently, not sure how much difference that'd make riding up steep hills.0
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TGH seems well off at the moment as well.kingstongraham said:McNutty and Landa away off the front, but only about 10 seconds clear on the climb.
Plenty dropped, Carapaz just has no form.0 -
I really don't get why all of the teams are working for Roglic. It's his leaders jersey at risk and Carthy is pulling on the front.0
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There's too many team using black helmets with red centre sections - UAE, IGD and BV.2
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Jumbo are clueless. They've got a guy in Roglic's group doing nothing, while the race goes up the road. There's other riders than Pogacar racing."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0
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McNulty now leads by 23 seconds after finishing 3rd on the stage. He was in a group of 6 who drifted off the front on the decent while most of the others were looking at each other. Roglic, Pogacar etc rolled in 49 second behind."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0
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Jumbo completely farked that up.
What were they thinking?
Roglic now has to hope McNulty cracks on Arrate, because how can he go about gaining 24", towing Pogacar behind him?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Are Jumbo Visma's DS's not very good?
Messed up today.
Messed up at Flanders.
Messed up at T-A.0 -
Er, not the right thread for it but how did the DS screw up Flanders? (will copy the Q in the flanders thread).0
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The team managed to get WVA isolated a long way out, and then 'allowed' him to do way too much work on the front of the chase group.rick_chasey said:Er, not the right thread for it but how did the DS screw up Flanders? (will copy the Q in the flanders thread).
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Or T-A?0
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I wonder whether the Jumbo think tank will realise that Jonas Vingegaard is now their best chance of winning the Basque beret?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0
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I've written them a very strongly worded letter, delivered to their headquarters by Viking throwing axe. I've got ten longboats off the Dutch coast, ready to help with any brainstorming or focus grouping they need to do.blazing_saddles said:I wonder whether the Jumbo think tank will realise that Jonas Vingegaard is now their best chance of winning the Basque beret?
Warning No formatter is installed for the format1 -
Worth watching Chris Horner butterfly effect on YouTube. He goes into how Van Aert was isolated and ended up dragging everyone along. Dorset Boy has it rightrick_chasey said:Er, not the right thread for it but how did the DS screw up Flanders? (will copy the Q in the flanders thread).
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Well, that didn't take long. Seems the UAE boys were scratching their heads, too.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/i-dont-know-what-they-were-thinking-tadej-pogacar-and-new-leader-brandon-mcnulty-bemused-by-jumbo-vismas-tactics-at-tour-of-the-basque-country-495797"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Cosmo pointed it out too - he ended up doing a lot of work.amrushton said:
Worth watching Chris Horner butterfly effect on YouTube. He goes into how Van Aert was isolated and ended up dragging everyone along. Dorset Boy has it rightrick_chasey said:Er, not the right thread for it but how did the DS screw up Flanders? (will copy the Q in the flanders thread).
Not much he could have done about it personally, as one of the pre race favourites he was always going to have to work in a situation like that, but at one point there was a huge group to have only one JV rider (WVA) in it. 20, 25+ riders.0 -
JV made WVA leader at T-A and he went for the GC rather than using it as a training race ahead of the classics where he is one of the 3 current best riders on the world.kingstongraham said:Or T-A?
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Do we really need to be having this same conversation in two threads?
WVA is not riding in the Basque Country.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.1 -
You do wonder if it's race smarts though? I've noticed in the Basque race that Roglic is often in a similar position and yet it's still very rare to see him on the front trying to pull back breaks. Even yesterday when the break went away you had Hugh Carthy doing big turns on the front for some reason, despite it being Roglic's leaders jersey on the line.bobmcstuff said:
Cosmo pointed it out too - he ended up doing a lot of work.amrushton said:
Worth watching Chris Horner butterfly effect on YouTube. He goes into how Van Aert was isolated and ended up dragging everyone along. Dorset Boy has it rightrick_chasey said:Er, not the right thread for it but how did the DS screw up Flanders? (will copy the Q in the flanders thread).
Not much he could have done about it personally, as one of the pre race favourites he was always going to have to work in a situation like that, but at one point there was a huge group to have only one JV rider (WVA) in it. 20, 25+ riders.0 -
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Only while it looked like they might have a chance of the stage. Then it kind of fizzled out, and jv seemed to not want to work in either group. Mistake to assume mcnutty is going to fall apart - there's not big long climbs harder than yesterday on Saturday, just more of the same.phreak said:
You do wonder if it's race smarts though? I've noticed in the Basque race that Roglic is often in a similar position and yet it's still very rare to see him on the front trying to pull back breaks. Even yesterday when the break went away you had Hugh Carthy doing big turns on the front for some reason, despite it being Roglic's leaders jersey on the line.bobmcstuff said:
Cosmo pointed it out too - he ended up doing a lot of work.amrushton said:
Worth watching Chris Horner butterfly effect on YouTube. He goes into how Van Aert was isolated and ended up dragging everyone along. Dorset Boy has it rightrick_chasey said:Er, not the right thread for it but how did the DS screw up Flanders? (will copy the Q in the flanders thread).
Not much he could have done about it personally, as one of the pre race favourites he was always going to have to work in a situation like that, but at one point there was a huge group to have only one JV rider (WVA) in it. 20, 25+ riders.0 -
It's been similar in other stages of the race though. Pogacar would attack, for instance, and rather than forcing Roglic to chase, other guys would be on the front. People don't seem to get that towing him to the last km is only going to result in one outcome. I think every stage of this race he's been largely isolated in terms of team mates, but hasn't really been worked over at all.kingstongraham said:
Only while it looked like they might have a chance of the stage. Then it kind of fizzled out, and jv seemed to not want to work in either group. Mistake to assume mcnutty is going to fall apart - there's not big long climbs harder than yesterday on Saturday, just more of the same.phreak said:
You do wonder if it's race smarts though? I've noticed in the Basque race that Roglic is often in a similar position and yet it's still very rare to see him on the front trying to pull back breaks. Even yesterday when the break went away you had Hugh Carthy doing big turns on the front for some reason, despite it being Roglic's leaders jersey on the line.bobmcstuff said:
Cosmo pointed it out too - he ended up doing a lot of work.amrushton said:
Worth watching Chris Horner butterfly effect on YouTube. He goes into how Van Aert was isolated and ended up dragging everyone along. Dorset Boy has it rightrick_chasey said:Er, not the right thread for it but how did the DS screw up Flanders? (will copy the Q in the flanders thread).
Not much he could have done about it personally, as one of the pre race favourites he was always going to have to work in a situation like that, but at one point there was a huge group to have only one JV rider (WVA) in it. 20, 25+ riders.0 -
If you have nobody in the front group, and have no chance of winning the GC because you aren't UAE or JV, you aren't losing anything by chasing it down. Flat sprint like yesterday, I don't think it's a given that Roglic wins.phreak said:
It's been similar in other stages of the race though. Pogacar would attack, for instance, and rather than forcing Roglic to chase, other guys would be on the front. People don't seem to get that towing him to the last km is only going to result in one outcome. I think every stage of this race he's been largely isolated in terms of team mates, but hasn't really been worked over at all.kingstongraham said:
Only while it looked like they might have a chance of the stage. Then it kind of fizzled out, and jv seemed to not want to work in either group. Mistake to assume mcnutty is going to fall apart - there's not big long climbs harder than yesterday on Saturday, just more of the same.phreak said:
You do wonder if it's race smarts though? I've noticed in the Basque race that Roglic is often in a similar position and yet it's still very rare to see him on the front trying to pull back breaks. Even yesterday when the break went away you had Hugh Carthy doing big turns on the front for some reason, despite it being Roglic's leaders jersey on the line.bobmcstuff said:
Cosmo pointed it out too - he ended up doing a lot of work.amrushton said:
Worth watching Chris Horner butterfly effect on YouTube. He goes into how Van Aert was isolated and ended up dragging everyone along. Dorset Boy has it rightrick_chasey said:Er, not the right thread for it but how did the DS screw up Flanders? (will copy the Q in the flanders thread).
Not much he could have done about it personally, as one of the pre race favourites he was always going to have to work in a situation like that, but at one point there was a huge group to have only one JV rider (WVA) in it. 20, 25+ riders.
Would make a better race if they all ganged up on him, I agree, but there's no advantage for EF in doing that yesterday.0 -
Plus what does Roglic do?Attack McNulty and take Pogacar with him, Pogacar will just sit on Roglic and get towed then jump him for bonus seconds and time.
Roglic would have to go fairly long to make sure he puts enough time into McNulty but then how deep can he go to keep in touch when Pogacar attacks
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Doesn't have to catch the front group to stay in the lead (although he should have tried to). JV should possibly told Vingegaard to drop back to work with Roglic two up early on the descent once the break was away. Neither are really likely to win or lose time today.andytee87 said:Plus what does Roglic do?Attack McNulty and take Pogacar with him, Pogacar will just sit on Roglic and get towed then jump him for bonus seconds and time.
Roglic would have to go fairly long to make sure he puts enough time into McNulty but then how deep can he go to keep in touch when Pogacar attacks0 -
True, but my point was JV have made a reasonably straightforward GC more complicated for themselves. All he had to do before was sit on Pogacar.kingstongraham said:
Doesn't have to catch the front group to stay in the lead (although he should have tried to). JV should possibly told Vingegaard to drop back to work with Roglic two up early on the descent once the break was away. Neither are really likely to win or lose time today.
As you say, Vingegaard should have been brought back to work with Tolhoek
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Sorry, I misunderstood, you are talking about tomorrow (stage 6).andytee87 said:
True, but my point was JV have made a reasonably straightforward GC more complicated for themselves. All he had to do before was sit on Pogacar.kingstongraham said:
Doesn't have to catch the front group to stay in the lead (although he should have tried to). JV should possibly told Vingegaard to drop back to work with Roglic two up early on the descent once the break was away. Neither are really likely to win or lose time today.
As you say, Vingegaard should have been brought back to work with Tolhoek
But I can't see Pogacar taking much time on the road out of Roglic on current form in this race. Only 10 seconds bonus for the win, so Pog needs to gain 11 seconds on the road if McNulty does get dropped.
It makes for a more interesting race. I see McNulty getting dropped only on the last climb and having to work to limit his losses to less than 13 seconds.0
