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Milan - San Remo 2021 ***Spoilers***

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  • Dorset_BoyDorset_Boy Posts: 5,248
    Well JA, WvA and MvdP were in the final selection, so not sure that theory stacks up.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 21,013

    MvdP JA WvA trifectarama neutralising each other has happened before . ...

    Trek won that race too
    That was a flat sprint, it was just wva neutralising everyone.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,665
    The way WvA and MvdP rrode Tirreno might have hurt them a little...

    But a howling tailwind, Caleb Ewan and the 3 big dogs watching each other were far bigger factors.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • phreakphreak Posts: 2,662

    Some speculation this year's T-A was too tough and that blunted the riders who came from that race.

    Anyone with a view on that?

    I'd say the reality is that while the Poggio these days does force a selection, it seldom forces a selection of less than half a dozen riders. When was the last time someone actually went clear on the Poggio and stayed away until the end? Nibali?

    The nature of the race means that few riders have domestiques left by that point, so if you have top sprinters in the final selection no one will want to really chase and pull things back for the sprinters to win.

  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 8,074
    It didn't look like MvdP really had it on the day - the pre race talk about him being the best classics rider since Merckx and it being a question of how far out he'd attack meant everyone looked at him a little too much. I think a MvdP in a good day tries to win that in the second half of the Poggio and at worst goes over the top with a couple if others.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Cosmo's HTRWW is up, and cites several examples of MVDP being left on his own and the extra energy that will have cost him
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,718

    It didn't look like MvdP really had it on the day - the pre race talk about him being the best classics rider since Merckx and it being a question of how far out he'd attack meant everyone looked at him a little too much. I think a MvdP in a good day tries to win that in the second half of the Poggio and at worst goes over the top with a couple if others.

    He was too far back for most of the Poggio to do that. He made up a lot of ground with almost no support. He only had Sbaragli who wasn't even there for the entire effort. He would have had to have been up front with JA and WVA from the beginning to do that.
    He was also too far back prior to the Poggio on multiple occasions and had to expend energy to move up. Dries de Bondt did a great job for him there.
    PTP Champion 2019
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,665
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 5,377
    Interestingly only 3 DNFs on the day.

    Though anyone know why Conor Swift was a DNS?
  • dish_dash said:

    Interestingly only 3 DNFs on the day.

    Though anyone know why Conor Swift was a DNS?

    He saw how long the race was and couldn't and be bothered
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,518
    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/strava-data-reveals-rapid-ascent-of-the-poggio-in-milan-san-remo-2021-494176

    Fastest Poggio since 2017

    Pidcock did 1100 watts I the sprint which is bloody good for someone that small and after 300k
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 8,074
    m.r.m. said:

    It didn't look like MvdP really had it on the day - the pre race talk about him being the best classics rider since Merckx and it being a question of how far out he'd attack meant everyone looked at him a little too much. I think a MvdP in a good day tries to win that in the second half of the Poggio and at worst goes over the top with a couple if others.

    He was too far back for most of the Poggio to do that. He made up a lot of ground with almost no support. He only had Sbaragli who wasn't even there for the entire effort. He would have had to have been up front with JA and WVA from the beginning to do that.
    He was also too far back prior to the Poggio on multiple occasions and had to expend energy to move up. Dries de Bondt did a great job for him there.
    Yes I agree he wasn't in the ideal position but I thought at the time on a couple of occasions he passed up opportunities to move up that he'd have taken had he been100% - I think him being a little further back was as much a symptom of him being knackered as the cause. I mean it's all speculation but that's how I saw it.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,718
    Yeah it's definitely possible. Especially since he was lagging way back at times earlier as well. I see your point!
    PTP Champion 2019
  • I was rather impressed by Pidcock. He's 21, riding his first monument and managed to get into a position where he could lead them for a while down the Poggio. He's said in interviews that his problem at that point was he didn't know where he was going :D Considering his (lack of) size his numbers are incredible. He really does seem to be the real deal.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,310

    I was rather impressed by Pidcock. He's 21, riding his first monument and managed to get into a position where he could lead them for a while down the Poggio. He's said in interviews that his problem at that point was he didn't know where he was going :D Considering his (lack of) size his numbers are incredible. He really does seem to be the real deal.


    From what I've seen from him so far, his tactical sense seems top notch. Unlike 'Tictacs' Van der Poel
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,866
    In cross he seemed to have an issue with getting caught out positionally and burning matches to get back to the front. I think we've seen that a bit on the road as well, though not MSR, where he couldn't follow the initial attacks and had to close the gap. It wasn't the first time we've seen him having to chase though. Overall an extremely impressive start to his road career, with the improvement of experience to come.

    I'm not sure what his punch is like on walls, he handled himself pretty well at SB, but that will be crucial if the Ardennes is to be his playground. For the cobbles he'll definitely be more suited to Flanders than Roubaix. The surging power changes of Flanders might suit his cross background.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • andyrrandyrr Posts: 1,685

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/strava-data-reveals-rapid-ascent-of-the-poggio-in-milan-san-remo-2021-494176

    Fastest Poggio since 2017

    Pidcock did 1100 watts I the sprint which is bloody good for someone that small and after 300k

    Watched the GCN review prog last night that quoted Swift’s HR at something like 190 for 12 minutes towards the end - I’d be dead if I tried that!
  • phreakphreak Posts: 2,662

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/strava-data-reveals-rapid-ascent-of-the-poggio-in-milan-san-remo-2021-494176

    Fastest Poggio since 2017

    Pidcock did 1100 watts I the sprint which is bloody good for someone that small and after 300k

    Still, the times over the Cipressa and Poggio are not a patch on the 90s times. Think the Cipressa record was about 50 seconds faster than they did at the weekend. EPO is some good shizzle.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 62,516 Lives Here
    phreak said:

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/strava-data-reveals-rapid-ascent-of-the-poggio-in-milan-san-remo-2021-494176

    Fastest Poggio since 2017

    Pidcock did 1100 watts I the sprint which is bloody good for someone that small and after 300k

    Still, the times over the Cipressa and Poggio are not a patch on the 90s times. Think the Cipressa record was about 50 seconds faster than they did at the weekend. EPO is some good shizzle.
    If you watch those videos you'll also see a ludicrous amount of motos too, and very close.
  • yorkshirerawyorkshireraw Posts: 1,608

    phreak said:

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/strava-data-reveals-rapid-ascent-of-the-poggio-in-milan-san-remo-2021-494176

    Fastest Poggio since 2017

    Pidcock did 1100 watts I the sprint which is bloody good for someone that small and after 300k

    Still, the times over the Cipressa and Poggio are not a patch on the 90s times. Think the Cipressa record was about 50 seconds faster than they did at the weekend. EPO is some good shizzle.
    If you watch those videos you'll also see a ludicrous amount of motos too, and very close.
    And given how bikes / kit are so much better & more aero now, the relative power numbers must have been nuts.
  • phreakphreak Posts: 2,662
    edited March 2021

    phreak said:

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/strava-data-reveals-rapid-ascent-of-the-poggio-in-milan-san-remo-2021-494176

    Fastest Poggio since 2017

    Pidcock did 1100 watts I the sprint which is bloody good for someone that small and after 300k

    Still, the times over the Cipressa and Poggio are not a patch on the 90s times. Think the Cipressa record was about 50 seconds faster than they did at the weekend. EPO is some good shizzle.
    If you watch those videos you'll also see a ludicrous amount of motos too, and very close.
    Gabriele Colombo is the guy with the record on the Cipressa. He won in 1996 without really doing much else of note. He was part of Ferrari's Gewiss jamboree. Guys like him, Furlan, Berzin, and Ugrumov burned incredibly brightly for a season or two and then practically vanished.
  • andypandyp Posts: 9,009
    edited March 2021
    That's harsh on Berzin, at one point he was practically visible from space.


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