Really sweet frame to keep for years

First.Aspect

I've never understood how they get the price that high, though.

shortfall

joe_totale-2 said:

This?

https://www.cyclefit.co.uk/bikes/622-slx

That looks absolutely glorious, a real bike for life IMO. Do it!

I mean that's a thing of beauty but £6.5 grand for a frame?

Wheelspinner

joe_totale-2 said:

This?

https://www.cyclefit.co.uk/bikes/622-slx

That looks absolutely glorious, a real bike for life IMO. Do it!

Not quite that. It's an older model, very similar, but has a Ti downtube instead of carbon. Still thinking about it - need to understand the geometry first as it was a custom build, and given I can't actually ride it before buying I am wary... The dimensions look pretty close to ideal for me though... dammit.

First.Aspect

Wheelspinner said:

joe_totale-2 said:

This?

https://www.cyclefit.co.uk/bikes/622-slx

That looks absolutely glorious, a real bike for life IMO. Do it!

Not quite that. It's an older model, very similar, but has a Ti downtube instead of carbon. Still thinking about it - need to understand the geometry first as it was a custom build, and given I can't actually ride it before buying I am wary... The dimensions look pretty close to ideal for me though... dammit.

I saw one of those in a shop in 1997. It is largely to blame for me getting the bug.

I think they look better with less carbon.

I am afraid to say they look fantastic close up. Not £7k fantastic, but possibly £5k fantastic.

junglist_matty

ragged_trousers said:

I think steel is the way to go for a 10 year frame IMO. Just waiting on mine to get built up...

I've got a Canyon Ultimate AL9.0 (2012).

It's coming up to 9 years old in a few months; in that time its served me as a very reliable commuter. It's been totally abused; it rarely gets serviced, it's spent a lot of it's life locked up in all weathers outside my office, and I've crashed it pretty hard three times (involving cars). Each time I've checked the fork as it's a full carbon fork and was worried it might have cracked, but it's been fine; which surprised me as the front wheel hasn't been so lucky on those occasions (i.e. rim buckled way beyond repair).

In fact, I only just bothered to change the inner and outer brake/gear cables (for the first time ever) last month, and that's only because I've upgraded the groupset from Ultegra 6700 to 105 R7000! Despite all this abuse, gear shifts on this bike have always been sharp. This thing has been a workhorse, yet loaded up with pedals, bottle cage & a frame pump it tips the scales at 8.3kg. I'm not sure exactly how much longer it will last, but I'll find out because I'm planning to keep on using it till it cracks or snaps; and it's not giving me any indication of that happening any time soon.

My point? Bikes and components last a hell of a lot longer than most people care to realise; a 10 year bike doesn't need to be made from steel or Ti, those materials are for lifetime frames.

Many people I know who have bought a a bike and told me something along the lines of "this will last me the next 10 years" have mostly replaced it well before that; after just several years they've gone and bought their next "10 year bike" because they wanted the latest tech (i.e. disc brakes, thru axles etc....)!

ragged_trousers

junglist_matty said:

ragged_trousers said:

I think steel is the way to go for a 10 year frame IMO. Just waiting on mine to get built up...

I've got a Canyon Ultimate AL9.0 (2012).

It's coming up to 9 years old in a few months; in that time its served me as a very reliable commuter. It's been totally abused; it rarely gets serviced, it's spent a lot of it's life locked up in all weathers outside my office, and I've crashed it pretty hard three times (involving cars). Each time I've checked the fork as it's a full carbon fork and was worried it might have cracked, but it's been fine; which surprised me as the front wheel hasn't been so lucky on those occasions (i.e. rim buckled way beyond repair).

In fact, I only just bothered to change the inner and outer brake/gear cables (for the first time ever) last month, and that's only because I've upgraded the groupset from Ultegra 6700 to 105 R7000! Despite all this abuse, gear shifts on this bike have always been sharp. This thing has been a workhorse, yet loaded up with pedals, bottle cage & a frame pump it tips the scales at 8.3kg. I'm not sure exactly how much longer it will last, but I'll find out because I'm planning to keep on using it till it cracks or snaps; and it's not giving me any indication of that happening any time soon.

My point? Bikes and components last a hell of a lot longer than most people care to realise; a 10 year bike doesn't need to be made from steel or Ti, those materials are for lifetime frames.

Many people I know who have bought a a bike and told me something along the lines of "this will last me the next 10 years" have mostly replaced it well before that; after just several years they've gone and bought their next "10 year bike" because they wanted the latest tech (i.e. disc brakes, thru axles etc....)!

And that's all absolutely as it should be.

I'm not saying every carbon frame will have issues, or even a significant proportion: far from it. We all know as well that people who have no issues with their bike are out riding it and telling no-one, while anyone who has a problem takes to the net. It's a biased selection of evidence. You're also quite right that 10 year bikes tend not to be 10 year bikes :-)

Unfortunately, there are plenty of documented instances of many carbon frames not lasting that long. In the last 6 years alone, I've had 3 problems with carbon frames (and I should add I'm 70kg and am anal about maintenance). A quick google search about Cannondale, Trek and Cervelo bb issues alone will bring up dozens of hits.

That's why (as well as the aesthetic) I decided to go steel, having a similar amount of money as the OP to spend on a new frame . Somewhere between £2.5-3.5k will get you a 1.5kg stainless steel frame, hand-crafted, tailored to your geometry, in your choice of paint. The c.500-600g weight difference is a complete irrelevance to anyone not at the sharp end of racing, and I'd value the craftsmanship and peace of mind higher anyway.

Of course, YMMV, and everyone should spend their money as they see fit. Tbf, if I could afford 2 'good' bikes, the other would be a top end carbon aero bike.

junglist_matty

ragged_trousers said:

Unfortunately, there are plenty of documented instances of many carbon frames not lasting that long. In the last 6 years alone, I've had 3 problems with carbon frames (and I should add I'm 70kg and am censored about maintenance). A quick google search about Cannondale, Trek and Cervelo bb issues alone will bring up dozens of hits.

I don't disagree - in these instances, the frame warrenty should cover you for this sort of problem (i.e. it's due to a slight defect in the manufacturing process). My "best" bike is a carbon TCR Advanced Pro frame, I hope I don't run into these issues down the line, but it's a risk you take when you buy carbon and want/expect the bike to last a good number of years. For a commuter I would probably avoid carbon, when I come to replace my Ultimate AL, I'll look at getting another alu frame, most likely of the CAAD variety.

elbowloh

I've had my bike 20 years. Only replaced the wheels (3 times), groupset (once) and frame (once).....

davidof

shortfall said:

joe_totale-2 said:

This?

https://www.cyclefit.co.uk/bikes/622-slx

That looks absolutely glorious, a real bike for life IMO. Do it!

I mean that's a thing of beauty but £6.5 grand for a frame?

Incredible isn't it? Long gone are the days when a bloke called Chas would weld you up a custom 653 frame in his workshop under the railway arches for a bullseye.

shortfall

davidof said:

shortfall said:

joe_totale-2 said:

This?

https://www.cyclefit.co.uk/bikes/622-slx

That looks absolutely glorious, a real bike for life IMO. Do it!

I mean that's a thing of beauty but £6.5 grand for a frame?

Incredible isn't it? Long gone are the days when a bloke called Chas would weld you up a custom 653 frame in his workshop under the railway arches for a bullseye.

True dat. Mind you we seem to live in an age where fairly unremarkable bikes costing 3, 4 and 5 grand are commonplace (and you have to spend another grand on a wheelset because they put some cheapo efforts on that weigh a ton just so it scrapes below a given price point) and top end mass produced bikes can cost 10 grand. Given all that, a bespoke steel or titanium frame with some well chosen parts can start to look like good value, even if the modern equivalent of Chas will want more than 50 quid for welding your tubing together.

ragged_trousers

we seem to live in an age where fairly unremarkable bikes costing 3, 4 and 5 grand are commonplace (and you have to spend another grand on a wheelset because they put some cheapo efforts on that weigh a ton just so it scrapes below a given price point) and top end mass produced bikes can cost 10 grand. Given all that, a bespoke steel or titanium frame with some well chosen parts can start to look like good value,

Well this is kind of where I was coming from. Even fairly average, very mass market carbon framesets are being sold for £2k upwards, and it's pretty remarkable that even 5k by no means guarantees decent wheels or electronic shifting.

There's no doubt that the last 5 years have seen a real price uplift in what I'd call mid-market enthusiasts bikes. I'm sure I paid less than 3k in 2015 (maybe 2016) for a sub 8kg Emonda with Ultegra...

elbowloh

ragged_trousers said:

we seem to live in an age where fairly unremarkable bikes costing 3, 4 and 5 grand are commonplace (and you have to spend another grand on a wheelset because they put some cheapo efforts on that weigh a ton just so it scrapes below a given price point) and top end mass produced bikes can cost 10 grand. Given all that, a bespoke steel or titanium frame with some well chosen parts can start to look like good value,

Well this is kind of where I was coming from. Even fairly average, very mass market carbon framesets are being sold for £2k upwards, and it's pretty remarkable that even 5k by no means guarantees decent wheels or electronic shifting.

There's no doubt that the last 5 years have seen a real price uplift in what I'd call mid-market enthusiasts bikes. I'm sure I paid less than 3k in 2015 (maybe 2016) for a sub 8kg Emonda with Ultegra...

I built my bike in 2014 with a Felt F1 frame, full ultegra (well apart from ceramic bearing BB) and Dura Ace c24 wheels for about £2400. It's less than 8kg too with a 61cm frame.

pinno

My CL 35's are dream wheels. I just love them. Bought them 2nd hand 7 years ago - there were described as 'ropey' and I paid £254 for them. When they arrived, I was gobsmacked - brake rims were good and they're still going. Hubs; I haven't touched.
Cannot believe the price of a new set.

elbowloh

pinno said:

My CL 35's are dream wheels. I just love them. Bought them 2nd hand 7 years ago - there were described as 'ropey' and I paid £254 for them. When they arrived, I was gobsmacked - brake rims were good and they're still going. Hubs; I haven't touched.
Cannot believe the price of a new set.

My c24 wheels cost me about £550 new. They're £969 on wiggle as we speak.

pinno

Hardly 'in line with inflation' are they?