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TDF 2020 - Stage 8: Cazères-sur-Garonne - Loudenvielle 141 km *Spoilers*

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  • DeadCalmDeadCalm Posts: 3,833
    I'm more than a little dubious of any site that purports to have an estimate of watts/kg based on timing a ride off the telly. Especially one that makes such claims so soon after the end of the stage.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • DeadCalmDeadCalm Posts: 3,833
    Today, it was almost as if Jumbo caught a glimpse of their foot, thought to themselves, "ooh, this will be easy", took aim, and blasted off a couple of toes.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,064
    A "domestique" dropping all your other domestiques must rank with team mates finishing 3rd & 4th out of a break of 4...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,367
    DeadCalm said:

    I'm more than a little dubious of any site that purports to have an estimate of watts/kg based on timing a ride off the telly. Especially one that makes such claims so soon after the end of the stage.
    It's probably credible, if not especially accurate.

    Depends on the race situation doesn't it.
  • DeadCalmDeadCalm Posts: 3,833

    DeadCalm said:

    I'm more than a little dubious of any site that purports to have an estimate of watts/kg based on timing a ride off the telly. Especially one that makes such claims so soon after the end of the stage.
    It's probably credible, if not especially accurate.

    Depends on the race situation doesn't it.
    Um, like government Covid stats? I know they are wrong, but I'm going to believe them anyway.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • DeadCalm said:

    I'm more than a little dubious of any site that purports to have an estimate of watts/kg based on timing a ride off the telly. Especially one that makes such claims so soon after the end of the stage.
    He makes his power data public on Strava and he did 428 average for 5.9 miles which is like 6.8 w/kg at his weight of around 65 kg. Do we need to watch this guy more closely for doping or is he just a freak? That’s almost unreal lance territory 8 days deep and at altitude.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,879
    edited September 2020
    Remember they're still quite fresh. This is only stage 8 and the first hard ridden GC stage. It was also a short stage at only 140km.
    Context is everything. They're not racing riders from years past.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeadCalmDeadCalm Posts: 3,833

    DeadCalm said:

    I'm more than a little dubious of any site that purports to have an estimate of watts/kg based on timing a ride off the telly. Especially one that makes such claims so soon after the end of the stage.
    He makes his power data public on Strava and he did 428 average for 5.9 miles which is like 6.8 w/kg at his weight of around 65 kg. Do we need to watch this guy more closely for doping or is he just a freak? That’s almost unreal lance territory 8 days deep and at altitude.
    If he were doping do you really think he would make his data publicly available?

    If you want to talk doping, may I suggest that you visit the Clinic.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • DeadCalm said:

    DeadCalm said:

    I'm more than a little dubious of any site that purports to have an estimate of watts/kg based on timing a ride off the telly. Especially one that makes such claims so soon after the end of the stage.
    He makes his power data public on Strava and he did 428 average for 5.9 miles which is like 6.8 w/kg at his weight of around 65 kg. Do we need to watch this guy more closely for doping or is he just a freak? That’s almost unreal lance territory 8 days deep and at altitude.
    If he were doping do you really think he would make his data publicly available?

    If you want to talk doping, may I suggest that you visit the Clinic.
    I’m not making any accusations — more just in awe. Also had normalized power of 329 or 5.1 w/kg for the full 4 hours and 10 mins.
  • DeadCalmDeadCalm Posts: 3,833
    RichN95. said:

    Remember they're still quite fresh. This is only stage 8 and the first hard ridden GC stage. It was also a short stage at only 140km.
    Context is everything. They're not racing riders from years past.

    Indeed. Plus the first 70 kilometres was 'raced' at a snail's pace.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,367
    DeadCalm said:

    DeadCalm said:

    I'm more than a little dubious of any site that purports to have an estimate of watts/kg based on timing a ride off the telly. Especially one that makes such claims so soon after the end of the stage.
    It's probably credible, if not especially accurate.

    Depends on the race situation doesn't it.
    Um, like government Covid stats? I know they are wrong, but I'm going to believe them anyway.
    Like I said, it depends on the race situation. As above basically. Apparently he publishes his data which makes it even more credible!
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,367

    DeadCalm said:

    DeadCalm said:

    I'm more than a little dubious of any site that purports to have an estimate of watts/kg based on timing a ride off the telly. Especially one that makes such claims so soon after the end of the stage.
    He makes his power data public on Strava and he did 428 average for 5.9 miles which is like 6.8 w/kg at his weight of around 65 kg. Do we need to watch this guy more closely for doping or is he just a freak? That’s almost unreal lance territory 8 days deep and at altitude.
    If he were doping do you really think he would make his data publicly available?

    If you want to talk doping, may I suggest that you visit the Clinic.
    I’m not making any accusations — more just in awe. Also had normalized power of 329 or 5.1 w/kg for the full 4 hours and 10 mins.
    Powless did 4.85 weighted average on his Stage 6 breakaway (cyclingtips article I posted earlier - interesting I thought), and he's a noob. And he was in the break again today. Not really surprising that Pogacar is a bit better and fresher.

    6.8 is obviously loads for 24 minutes (goes without saying!) but it doesn't seem massively out of whack with other known efforts.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 19,081
    Excellent stage which shakes things up a bit.
    Or does it? The effects of today will only truly be known after tomorrow.
    Who has burned too much today, who has been held back for tomorrow?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • DeadCalmDeadCalm Posts: 3,833

    DeadCalm said:

    DeadCalm said:

    I'm more than a little dubious of any site that purports to have an estimate of watts/kg based on timing a ride off the telly. Especially one that makes such claims so soon after the end of the stage.
    He makes his power data public on Strava and he did 428 average for 5.9 miles which is like 6.8 w/kg at his weight of around 65 kg. Do we need to watch this guy more closely for doping or is he just a freak? That’s almost unreal lance territory 8 days deep and at altitude.
    If he were doping do you really think he would make his data publicly available?

    If you want to talk doping, may I suggest that you visit the Clinic.
    I’m not making any accusations — more just in awe. Also had normalized power of 329 or 5.1 w/kg for the full 4 hours and 10 mins.
    Powless did 4.85 weighted average on his Stage 6 breakaway (cyclingtips article I posted earlier - interesting I thought), and he's a noob. And he was in the break again today. Not really surprising that Pogacar is a bit better and fresher.

    6.8 is obviously loads for 24 minutes (goes without saying!) but it doesn't seem massively out of whack with other known efforts.
    Plus he faded. He was more than a minute ahead at one point but only gained 39 seconds despite the others fannying about playing games.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,879
    ITV4 highlights followed by Jaws 4: The Revenge.

    Notable for it's star Michael Caine's quote about it: "I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific.”
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeadCalmDeadCalm Posts: 3,833
    DeadCalm said:

    Today, it was almost as if Jumbo caught a glimpse of their foot, thought to themselves, "ooh, this will be easy", took aim, and blasted off a couple of toes.

    To emphasise this point, Dumoulin came In over 2 minutes down on the Roglic group, along with Higuita, Valverde, Carthy, Barguill, Elissonde and Grellier of Team Total Direct Energie.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 10,990

    Well it's cheap talk from the armchair I guess. 🤭

    He lost that stage on the descents, it's pretty fair criticism.

    It s a totally fair criticism
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • DeadCalm said:

    DeadCalm said:

    I'm more than a little dubious of any site that purports to have an estimate of watts/kg based on timing a ride off the telly. Especially one that makes such claims so soon after the end of the stage.
    He makes his power data public on Strava and he did 428 average for 5.9 miles which is like 6.8 w/kg at his weight of around 65 kg. Do we need to watch this guy more closely for doping or is he just a freak? That’s almost unreal lance territory 8 days deep and at altitude.
    If he were doping do you really think he would make his data publicly available?

    If you want to talk doping, may I suggest that you visit the Clinic.
    Christ.
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 3,143
    RichN95. said:

    Remember they're still quite fresh. This is only stage 8 and the first hard ridden GC stage. It was also a short stage at only 140km.
    Context is everything. They're not racing riders from years past.

    And it isn't a particularly high climb
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 3,143
    DeadCalm said:

    DeadCalm said:

    DeadCalm said:

    I'm more than a little dubious of any site that purports to have an estimate of watts/kg based on timing a ride off the telly. Especially one that makes such claims so soon after the end of the stage.
    He makes his power data public on Strava and he did 428 average for 5.9 miles which is like 6.8 w/kg at his weight of around 65 kg. Do we need to watch this guy more closely for doping or is he just a freak? That’s almost unreal lance territory 8 days deep and at altitude.
    If he were doping do you really think he would make his data publicly available?

    If you want to talk doping, may I suggest that you visit the Clinic.
    I’m not making any accusations — more just in awe. Also had normalized power of 329 or 5.1 w/kg for the full 4 hours and 10 mins.
    Powless did 4.85 weighted average on his Stage 6 breakaway (cyclingtips article I posted earlier - interesting I thought), and he's a noob. And he was in the break again today. Not really surprising that Pogacar is a bit better and fresher.

    6.8 is obviously loads for 24 minutes (goes without saying!) but it doesn't seem massively out of whack with other known efforts.
    Plus he faded. He was more than a minute ahead at one point but only gained 39 seconds despite the others fannying about playing games.
    I don't think it was ever really a minute. On ITV Millar timed it manually at 43 seconds around the same time that the graphics said it was a minute.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,576
    I can't work out Bernal at the moment. He seems to be keeping his head down and getting overlooked a bit but is that because his form is iffy or is he just biding his time while the others give each other a hammering? He loses ground to sudden attacks but seems to get back without any major drama (with a bit of help from Iran today).

    I think there's a danger that Pogacar and Roglic end up watching each other and reacting to each other to the extent that someone like Quintana or even Uran gets away.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,367
    Pross said:

    I can't work out Bernal at the moment. He seems to be keeping his head down and getting overlooked a bit but is that because his form is iffy or is he just biding his time while the others give each other a hammering? He loses ground to sudden attacks but seems to get back without any major drama (with a bit of help from Iran today).

    I think there's a danger that Pogacar and Roglic end up watching each other and reacting to each other to the extent that someone like Quintana or even Uran gets away.

    The bolded bit - Yates was the same I thought. But he has even less support.
  • phreakphreak Posts: 2,548
    Is Sivakov kinda done for the whole race? He hasn't been seen since stage one, so I thought perhaps he was having a few days in the grupetto to recover, but there's no sign of him as stages tick by. Amador seems similarly affected by the first stage. They're arguably the two main mountain doms.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,064
    They re gonna be the week 3 superstars

    (Or not...)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,596
    edited September 2020
    I think Sivakov is injured and just labouring through in hopes it will get better. They are undermanned compared to Jumbo, so probably feel like they can't afford to pull him out of the race. Basically they are praying for a miracle. If it rains again he will be spooning Zakarin in a ditch. Bit harsh, I know. I don't mean it to sound quite that harsh.
    PTP Champion 2019
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 19,081
    m.r.m. said:

    I think Sivakov is injured and just labouring through in hopes it will get better. They are undermanned compared to Jumbo, so probably feel like they can't afford to pull him out of the race. Basically they are praying for a miracle. If it rains again he will be spooning Zakarin in a ditch. Bit harsh, I know. I don't mean it to sound quite that harsh.

    TBF, he is winning the Lanterne Rouge.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 16,151
    DeadCalm said:

    DeadCalm said:

    Today, it was almost as if Jumbo caught a glimpse of their foot, thought to themselves, "ooh, this will be easy", took aim, and blasted off a couple of toes.

    To emphasise this point, Dumoulin came In over 2 minutes down on the Roglic group, along with Higuita, Valverde, Carthy, Barguill, Elissonde and Grellier of Team Total Direct Energie.
    I don't think their tactics were that bad. Unless you're Wiggins, to win a win a GT a leader has to ride on his own at some point.

    Jumbo now know the strongest riders in the race. They probably already knew that this didn't include Dumoulin.

    I also think Pogacar was going to attack under all scenarios are that would blow away all the domestics.

    Sometimes I think the biggest damage Sky has done is to persude tour viewers that the only way to win is with a mountain train.

  • ProssPross Posts: 31,576
    phreak said:

    Is Sivakov kinda done for the whole race? He hasn't been seen since stage one, so I thought perhaps he was having a few days in the grupetto to recover, but there's no sign of him as stages tick by. Amador seems similarly affected by the first stage. They're arguably the two main mountain doms.

    He was briefly on the front yesterday on the second?? climb. Looked in better shape and I suspect they're nursing him back to be there in the final week. It could come in useful looking at the lack of support everyone else has.
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,785
    Who thought that at this point the best French rider would be from Cofidis? Great show again by Guillaume Martin
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 19,207
    edited September 2020
    It seems to me that there's more than a touch Tibaut Pinot in Tom Dumoulin, with respect to his mental toughness.
    Jumbo have said that he wasn't supposed to go the front and do any work. He made the decision himself, and once they noticed, it was too late already. Meanwhile, Dumoulin claims he didn't feel good enough, and wanted to contribute something
    To which Frans Maassen respond: "I don't think his shape is bad at all."
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
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