TDF 2020 - Stage 3: Nice - Sisteron 198 km *Spoilers*

124

Comments

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,473
    DeadCalm said:

    I don't particularly want to get involved in this debate but it did look to me at the time as though Bennett did try to be a little bit naughty as Ewan came past. Maybe it was the camera angle.

    For what it's worth he may have got relegated had he won. It's still not comparable in any way with the Groenewegen incident.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,842
    gweeds said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Bennett messes it up and let's Ewan through on the line. Excellent sprint by Ewan who weaved through after staying out of the wind. Everyone somehow gets through safely despite a fairly narrow road and riders going backwards in the wind

    Bennett didn’t sprint straight either
    Are you still banging that drum? You can't sprint straight on a narrow road with people slowing all around. It very different to what your man did in Poland.
    At the time people wanted to punish riders for not sprinting straight regardless.

    Bennett is by the barriers, starts dying, looks through his legs and drifts.

    Either you punish all or none, surely?

    Ridiculous. It’s entirely legitimate to come around a rider as he’s slowing for the line and you know it.

    What? Bennett is in first at the barrier and finishes the sprint in the middle of the road?

    Who on earth is he coming around?
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,105
    Pross said:

    DeadCalm said:

    I don't particularly want to get involved in this debate but it did look to me at the time as though Bennett did try to be a little bit naughty as Ewan came past. Maybe it was the camera angle.

    For what it's worth he may have got relegated had he won. It's still not comparable in any way with the Groenewegen incident.
    Ive never watched the Groenewegen incident. I'm squeamish.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,473
    gweeds said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Bennett messes it up and let's Ewan through on the line. Excellent sprint by Ewan who weaved through after staying out of the wind. Everyone somehow gets through safely despite a fairly narrow road and riders going backwards in the wind

    Bennett didn’t sprint straight either
    Are you still banging that drum? You can't sprint straight on a narrow road with people slowing all around. It very different to what your man did in Poland.
    At the time people wanted to punish riders for not sprinting straight regardless.

    Bennett is by the barriers, starts dying, looks through his legs and drifts.

    Either you punish all or none, surely?

    Ridiculous. It’s entirely legitimate to come around a rider as he’s slowing for the line and you know it.

    Rick isn't talking about anyone coming around a tiring rider. Bennett swerved while he was in front and getting passed by Ewan. It was a bit dodgy but mainly as his legs had gone.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,979
    edited August 2020
    gweeds said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Bennett messes it up and let's Ewan through on the line. Excellent sprint by Ewan who weaved through after staying out of the wind. Everyone somehow gets through safely despite a fairly narrow road and riders going backwards in the wind

    Bennett didn’t sprint straight either
    Are you still banging that drum? You can't sprint straight on a narrow road with people slowing all around. It very different to what your man did in Poland.
    At the time people wanted to punish riders for not sprinting straight regardless.

    Bennett is by the barriers, starts dying, looks through his legs and drifts.

    Either you punish all or none, surely?

    Ridiculous. It’s entirely legitimate to come around a rider as he’s slowing for the line and you know it.

    Apparently it's not Ewan, but Bennett dying into the block headwind, Rick's now banging on about.
    Seems he changes his line more than the sprinters he's highlighting.

    Surprised that none of the commentators are spotting any of these blatant irregularities that Rick keeps calling.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,842
    So when I say Bennett people thought...Ewan?
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,105

    gweeds said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Bennett messes it up and let's Ewan through on the line. Excellent sprint by Ewan who weaved through after staying out of the wind. Everyone somehow gets through safely despite a fairly narrow road and riders going backwards in the wind

    Bennett didn’t sprint straight either
    Are you still banging that drum? You can't sprint straight on a narrow road with people slowing all around. It very different to what your man did in Poland.
    At the time people wanted to punish riders for not sprinting straight regardless.

    Bennett is by the barriers, starts dying, looks through his legs and drifts.

    Either you punish all or none, surely?

    Ridiculous. It’s entirely legitimate to come around a rider as he’s slowing for the line and you know it.

    Apparently it's not Ewan, but Bennett dying into the block headwind, Rick's now banging on about.
    Seems he changes his line more than the sprinters he's highlighting.

    Surprised that none of the commentators are spotting any of these blatant irregularities that Rick keeps calling.
    I think the Eurosport commentators did pick up on it.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • DeadCalm said:

    gweeds said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Bennett messes it up and let's Ewan through on the line. Excellent sprint by Ewan who weaved through after staying out of the wind. Everyone somehow gets through safely despite a fairly narrow road and riders going backwards in the wind

    Bennett didn’t sprint straight either
    Are you still banging that drum? You can't sprint straight on a narrow road with people slowing all around. It very different to what your man did in Poland.
    At the time people wanted to punish riders for not sprinting straight regardless.

    Bennett is by the barriers, starts dying, looks through his legs and drifts.

    Either you punish all or none, surely?

    Ridiculous. It’s entirely legitimate to come around a rider as he’s slowing for the line and you know it.

    Apparently it's not Ewan, but Bennett dying into the block headwind, Rick's now banging on about.
    Seems he changes his line more than the sprinters he's highlighting.

    Surprised that none of the commentators are spotting any of these blatant irregularities that Rick keeps calling.
    I think the Eurosport commentators did pick up on it.
    The bit of contact? That was while they were still in the lead out....
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,473

    gweeds said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Bennett messes it up and let's Ewan through on the line. Excellent sprint by Ewan who weaved through after staying out of the wind. Everyone somehow gets through safely despite a fairly narrow road and riders going backwards in the wind

    Bennett didn’t sprint straight either
    Are you still banging that drum? You can't sprint straight on a narrow road with people slowing all around. It very different to what your man did in Poland.
    At the time people wanted to punish riders for not sprinting straight regardless.

    Bennett is by the barriers, starts dying, looks through his legs and drifts.

    Either you punish all or none, surely?

    Ridiculous. It’s entirely legitimate to come around a rider as he’s slowing for the line and you know it.

    Apparently it's not Ewan, but Bennett dying into the block headwind, Rick's now banging on about.
    Seems he changes his line more than the sprinters he's highlighting.

    Surprised that none of the commentators are spotting any of these blatant irregularities that Rick keeps calling.
    To be fair he said Bennett all along but seems to be having problems understanding how his minor wobble differed from Dylan putting someone into a barrier at high speed.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,105

    DeadCalm said:

    gweeds said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Bennett messes it up and let's Ewan through on the line. Excellent sprint by Ewan who weaved through after staying out of the wind. Everyone somehow gets through safely despite a fairly narrow road and riders going backwards in the wind

    Bennett didn’t sprint straight either
    Are you still banging that drum? You can't sprint straight on a narrow road with people slowing all around. It very different to what your man did in Poland.
    At the time people wanted to punish riders for not sprinting straight regardless.

    Bennett is by the barriers, starts dying, looks through his legs and drifts.

    Either you punish all or none, surely?

    Ridiculous. It’s entirely legitimate to come around a rider as he’s slowing for the line and you know it.

    Apparently it's not Ewan, but Bennett dying into the block headwind, Rick's now banging on about.
    Seems he changes his line more than the sprinters he's highlighting.

    Surprised that none of the commentators are spotting any of these blatant irregularities that Rick keeps calling.
    I think the Eurosport commentators did pick up on it.
    The bit of contact? That was while they were still in the lead out....
    I actually didn't see any contact at all. All I saw was intent. As I understand it, Rick's argument is that the intent of the action should be prosecuted rather than the result. That doesn't seem particularly unreasonable to me.
    Team My Man 2022:

    Antwan Tolhoek, Sam Oomen, Tom Dumoulin, Thymen Arensman, Remco Evenepoel, Benoît Cosnefroy, Tom Pidcock, Mark Cavendish, Romain Bardet
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,842
    DeadCalm said:

    DeadCalm said:

    gweeds said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Bennett messes it up and let's Ewan through on the line. Excellent sprint by Ewan who weaved through after staying out of the wind. Everyone somehow gets through safely despite a fairly narrow road and riders going backwards in the wind

    Bennett didn’t sprint straight either
    Are you still banging that drum? You can't sprint straight on a narrow road with people slowing all around. It very different to what your man did in Poland.
    At the time people wanted to punish riders for not sprinting straight regardless.

    Bennett is by the barriers, starts dying, looks through his legs and drifts.

    Either you punish all or none, surely?

    Ridiculous. It’s entirely legitimate to come around a rider as he’s slowing for the line and you know it.

    Apparently it's not Ewan, but Bennett dying into the block headwind, Rick's now banging on about.
    Seems he changes his line more than the sprinters he's highlighting.

    Surprised that none of the commentators are spotting any of these blatant irregularities that Rick keeps calling.
    I think the Eurosport commentators did pick up on it.
    The bit of contact? That was while they were still in the lead out....
    I actually didn't see any contact at all. All I saw was intent. As I understand it, Rick's argument is that the intent of the action should be prosecuted rather than the result. That doesn't seem particularly unreasonable to me.
    Exactly!
  • Personally I think the intention to push someone into the barriers is somewhat different to an intention to make them come a further distance around in plenty of space, regardless of the outcome...

    I didn't think Bennett was massively out of order today, for what it's worth, but can understand the other point of view. I don't think he moved aggressively enough to intend Ewan to sit up, just make the distance further.
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    Watching the highlights I can see exactly what Rick is referring to. I don't think the commissaires would have taken a closer look if Bennett had held on but it was sailing a bit close to the wind.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • DeadCalm said:

    DeadCalm said:

    gweeds said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Bennett messes it up and let's Ewan through on the line. Excellent sprint by Ewan who weaved through after staying out of the wind. Everyone somehow gets through safely despite a fairly narrow road and riders going backwards in the wind

    Bennett didn’t sprint straight either
    Are you still banging that drum? You can't sprint straight on a narrow road with people slowing all around. It very different to what your man did in Poland.
    At the time people wanted to punish riders for not sprinting straight regardless.

    Bennett is by the barriers, starts dying, looks through his legs and drifts.

    Either you punish all or none, surely?

    Ridiculous. It’s entirely legitimate to come around a rider as he’s slowing for the line and you know it.

    Apparently it's not Ewan, but Bennett dying into the block headwind, Rick's now banging on about.
    Seems he changes his line more than the sprinters he's highlighting.

    Surprised that none of the commentators are spotting any of these blatant irregularities that Rick keeps calling.
    I think the Eurosport commentators did pick up on it.
    The bit of contact? That was while they were still in the lead out....
    I actually didn't see any contact at all. All I saw was intent. As I understand it, Rick's argument is that the intent of the action should be prosecuted rather than the result. That doesn't seem particularly unreasonable to me.
    Exactly!
    I am going to look at this again.
    I must admit I was concentrating on Ewan and not at all on Bennett.
    Apparently there has been a bit of back and forth on twitter and Sam has been busy blocking on there as well!



    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,786
    No one mentions the fact that Bennet also sticks his elbow out. He definitely looks like he knows he's dying and tries to block anyone coming round. It's not the first time.
  • pat1cp
    pat1cp Posts: 766
    ddraver said:

    MOST
    COFIDIS
    THING
    EVER
    !!!

    Asking him to sit up while still in the breakaway wasn't. I can understand why, but it's not really playing ball.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,842

    DeadCalm said:

    DeadCalm said:

    gweeds said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Bennett messes it up and let's Ewan through on the line. Excellent sprint by Ewan who weaved through after staying out of the wind. Everyone somehow gets through safely despite a fairly narrow road and riders going backwards in the wind

    Bennett didn’t sprint straight either
    Are you still banging that drum? You can't sprint straight on a narrow road with people slowing all around. It very different to what your man did in Poland.
    At the time people wanted to punish riders for not sprinting straight regardless.

    Bennett is by the barriers, starts dying, looks through his legs and drifts.

    Either you punish all or none, surely?

    Ridiculous. It’s entirely legitimate to come around a rider as he’s slowing for the line and you know it.

    Apparently it's not Ewan, but Bennett dying into the block headwind, Rick's now banging on about.
    Seems he changes his line more than the sprinters he's highlighting.

    Surprised that none of the commentators are spotting any of these blatant irregularities that Rick keeps calling.
    I think the Eurosport commentators did pick up on it.
    The bit of contact? That was while they were still in the lead out....
    I actually didn't see any contact at all. All I saw was intent. As I understand it, Rick's argument is that the intent of the action should be prosecuted rather than the result. That doesn't seem particularly unreasonable to me.
    Exactly!
    I am going to look at this again.
    I must admit I was concentrating on Ewan and not at all on Bennett.
    Apparently there has been a bit of back and forth on twitter and Sam has been busy blocking on there as well!



    I normally wouldn't mention it but people seemed so up in arms about a tactic that happens all the time....
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,786
    I think the outcome is everything. Ewen won so there is little reaction, if he'd lost of worse still ended up on the deck it would be a different story. The UCI need to get to grips with what's considered acceptable. Things that happen all the time aren't necessarily right.
  • That was a really good sprint from Ewan.
    Didn't hit the wind until the line
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,473

    DeadCalm said:

    DeadCalm said:

    gweeds said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Bennett messes it up and let's Ewan through on the line. Excellent sprint by Ewan who weaved through after staying out of the wind. Everyone somehow gets through safely despite a fairly narrow road and riders going backwards in the wind

    Bennett didn’t sprint straight either
    Are you still banging that drum? You can't sprint straight on a narrow road with people slowing all around. It very different to what your man did in Poland.
    At the time people wanted to punish riders for not sprinting straight regardless.

    Bennett is by the barriers, starts dying, looks through his legs and drifts.

    Either you punish all or none, surely?

    Ridiculous. It’s entirely legitimate to come around a rider as he’s slowing for the line and you know it.

    Apparently it's not Ewan, but Bennett dying into the block headwind, Rick's now banging on about.
    Seems he changes his line more than the sprinters he's highlighting.

    Surprised that none of the commentators are spotting any of these blatant irregularities that Rick keeps calling.
    I think the Eurosport commentators did pick up on it.
    The bit of contact? That was while they were still in the lead out....
    I actually didn't see any contact at all. All I saw was intent. As I understand it, Rick's argument is that the intent of the action should be prosecuted rather than the result. That doesn't seem particularly unreasonable to me.
    Exactly!
    I am going to look at this again.
    I must admit I was concentrating on Ewan and not at all on Bennett.
    Apparently there has been a bit of back and forth on twitter and Sam has been busy blocking on there as well!



    I normally wouldn't mention it but people seemed so up in arms about a tactic that happens all the time....
    It gets mentioned on virtually every big Tour sprint stage and I think had Bennett won yesterday it would have been a discussion point again. I still think you're underplaying how bad Groenewegen's move was though, not because of the outcome but because of the speed it was done at and that it was in a much more tightly packed bunch where no one could take evasive action. Even assuming there was no intent it and if it hadn't resulted in a crash was by far the more dangerous example.
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,374

    I know a lot of people here don't like CK, but he does make me laugh.

    "some people on twitter are telling me to just talk about the racing... well, right now there isn't any"

    It will wear off.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,374
    Honestly, after rewatching the sprint multiple times, I see no comparison between what Bennett did to what Groenewegen did (in context).
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,473
    m.r.m. said:

    Honestly, after rewatching the sprint multiple times, I see no comparison between what Bennett did to what Groenewegen did (in context).

    Yeah, saw it again myself and there really isn't a comparison. It was more like when a GC contender has given it all on a MTF and is struggling to keep upright crossing the line.
  • Just rewatched it - it's a bit naughty and if we are going to punish deliberately moving across the line if a faster rider it probably does merit punishment. The point would be that a smaller punishment for infractions like that would prevent the more serious incidents happening with such frequency. But yes there is a counter argument that it would change the nature of so many sprints to prevent a few crashes.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,238
    Pross said:

    m.r.m. said:

    Honestly, after rewatching the sprint multiple times, I see no comparison between what Bennett did to what Groenewegen did (in context).

    Yeah, saw it again myself and there really isn't a comparison. It was more like when a GC contender has given it all on a MTF and is struggling to keep upright crossing the line.
    I watched the highlights last night - it looked much worse front on than in the overhead. In the overhead it looked pretty benign, front on it looked pretty bad (which is the view I saw first).
  • But what about Ewan’s sprint? Wasn’t that dangerous? He snaked his way up to the line from 100(?) metres out, nearly took Sagan’s back wheel out. Zero sign of a straight line sprint. Bennett’s moves to my mind was fairly standard.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,473

    But what about Ewan’s sprint? Wasn’t that dangerous? He snaked his way up to the line from 100(?) metres out, nearly took Sagan’s back wheel out. Zero sign of a straight line sprint. Bennett’s moves to my mind was fairly standard.

    How was he supposed to move up without going around riders dropping back?
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,238
    Moving to overtake is one thing, moving to stop others overtaking quite another.
  • Was just raising it. Imagine if he had clipped Sagans wheel, could’ve been carnage. I’m just not sure that SB deserved some of the grief he seems to be getting. Didn’t look any worse than many other finishes.