Harper's letter
nickice
Posts: 2,439
I've seen it briefly mentioned elsewhere but I still can't believe the reaction to what is a completely reasonable open letter (see Billy Bragg in the Guardian, for example). I'd have thought that as the darling of the left, Noam Chomsky, signed it, they might sit up and pay attention. How wrong I was.
I understand that freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from accountability but these people will go after your job and your whole life.
https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/
I understand that freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from accountability but these people will go after your job and your whole life.
https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/
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Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/
It's nothing new though is it? The boundaries of what are considered decent by society are forever changing and are never static.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/10/opinions/the-letter-harpers-cancel-culture-open-debate-yang/index.html
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2020-07-09/cancel-culture-harpers-letter
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/10/free-speech-young-people
I think you need to delve a bit deeper into this. Cancel culture means that not only do you criticise what someone says but you also go after them and try to get them fired and destroy their livelihood. The other point is that they're usually saying something perfectly reasonable (or well within the overton window). If they weren't, they'd be fired anyway without the need for the mob justice. For example, if Piers Morgan appeared on TV tomorrow and said Hitler was right to have killed Jews, they'd go to commercial break and he'd be fired right there and then. No need for petitions...
This is also quite a thoughtful response.
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition
However carries it out, it's always unacceptable. However, it's usually a pretty noisy and repellent minority, no matter what end of the political spectrum they're from.
I have some friends who identify as being trans who were pretty offended by what JK Rowling said recently, they are not seeking though to destroy her livelihood but certainly think less of her as a person now. No different really to if someone said something demeaning to you.
Not sure why you're bringing up the alt-right. I don't need any convincing of their malevolence. Looks a little bit like whataboutery.
It may be a minority (which it wouldn't be if the views were generally considered unacceptable) but it has real-world consequences for people and not just famous people.
It's not about being offended or being disappointed. It's about silencing someone so nobody else can get to hear what they have to say and trying to destroy them. I did giggle at Harry Potter fan sites trying to distance themselves from the creator of Harry Potter.
Out of interest, what did JK Rowling say that your friends found particularly offensive. I'm assuming it wasn't the original tweet about 'people who menstruate'.
https://theobjective.substack.com/p/a-more-specific-letter-on-justice
Apparently the original signatories were too white and the instigator, Thomas Chatterton Williams, appears to be the wrong sort of black guy.
It's difficult for me to really understand their point of view try as I might.
They're not writing the letter to protect themselves and their viewpoints that's simply ridiculous. Half of them are tenured professors (and it might be fair to say, in the latter half of their careers) and JK Rowling has so much money she can do whatever she wants.
And the whole anonymous signature thing? What a joke. Trying to get sympathy by saying 'this person was too scared of reprisals to add their name'.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/10/jk-rowling-isnt-cancelled-faced-consequences-actions-12968749/
I do think there's a danger that the spectrum of responses from an article setting out an opposing viewpoint (which is exactly what the Harpers letter was arguing for) to an orchestrated campaign to get a person dropped by their employers for having a differing point of view, all gets lumped under a 'cancel culture' label. This is not helpful for anyone. If your latest record is not selling that well, it may just be because it's not that great. Equally, utter outrage at every difference of opinion makes it difficult to differentiate when someone really does deserve to lose their job. Mind you vaguely defined words that just mean 'thing you don't like' now seem to be in vogue.
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition
A lot of the more fringe views would never be ‘published’ or even written down. Or if they were it was obviously a fringe pamphlet.
Now everyone writes what they think and can remotely harass people with different views.
The real problem is the discussions are never really about the topic and are just vehicles for a different discussion.
I guess it’s also not a coincidence that this is occurring in a period where we are in a couple of macro transitions in the west: boomers moving on from being the decision makers to bring retired and a newer generation taking over (x & millenials) which always causes tension, and we are in a transition from the US being the sole superpower.
Combined with a decade of stagnant earnings, you get big political cleavages that get fought out in various arenas.
If people want to choose not to buy a book or record because of the opinion of the author or artist then that's their prerogative. However, it's just vindictive to campaign for people to be fired or for shops not to stock there books. I'm also not convinced that the opinions people like JK Rowling hold aren't actually held by a majority of people.
There's also a rather immature approach in viewing someone's creative work as a direct extension of them. History is full of complete a***holes who have created great art. If you are going to limit yourself to only appreciating work created by people of whom you approve you will have a very diminished life.
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition
A few examples there of careers affected for expressing quite reasonable (or at least mainstream) views.
Opposing medical intervention for children who may be unsure about their gender has been criminalised.
A lot of this isn't just anonymous nutters - it comes from well funded pressure groups.
In a different sphere of politics - even the sacking of that guy who flew the white lives matter banner - I know he's a Tommy Robinson fan but is that actually a sacking offence for a welder? He's not broken any laws - and we have laws on hate speech .
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition
I guess the argument must be loosely based on bringing the business into disrepute or some such. If he’s been employed less than two years the protections are limited but would be interesting to know what stands up to legal scrutiny.
He may well be an odious censored on warnings already though.
For all we know he could have been harassing other staff or anything (or not, equally)
I guess the question is, partly, when is racism a political opinion and when is it just not socially acceptable like being a nonce.
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition
Basically, don't join pile ons, they're never good.