Unpopular Opinions

Wheelspinner

briantrumpet said:

bompington said:

rick_chasey said:

Jazz is f*cking sh!t and people who think it is music are taking the p!ss.

Way too far on the "random bunch of notes" end of the musical spectrum (with a single repetitive noise at the other end)

I am a not very capable musician, but I know enough to recognise that a lot of jazz is a) very clever, and b) played very skilfully.

What gets me is that all this skill and cleverness ends up producing something that just sounds like noise.

Pretty much genres of music can be sublime or utter shît. Jazz is no different, especially when the players are simply playing with themselves (there's a word for that) and trying to show off to each other, and forget that they need to communicate something other than what they perceive to be their own cleverness to each other.

To take one example of what I'd call jazz genius, here's Oscar Peterson and his trio weaving a tale from the very simplest of materials, where the cleverness and skill are at the service of communicating, not an end in themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTJhHn-TuDY

Thank you for that link. I have dozens of recordings of Peterson, including (variations on) that track, but had not seen that clip.

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

briantrumpet said:

bompington said:

rick_chasey said:

Jazz is f*cking sh!t and people who think it is music are taking the p!ss.

Way too far on the "random bunch of notes" end of the musical spectrum (with a single repetitive noise at the other end)

I am a not very capable musician, but I know enough to recognise that a lot of jazz is a) very clever, and b) played very skilfully.

What gets me is that all this skill and cleverness ends up producing something that just sounds like noise.

Pretty much genres of music can be sublime or utter shît. Jazz is no different, especially when the players are simply playing with themselves (there's a word for that) and trying to show off to each other, and forget that they need to communicate something other than what they perceive to be their own cleverness to each other.

To take one example of what I'd call jazz genius, here's Oscar Peterson and his trio weaving a tale from the very simplest of materials, where the cleverness and skill are at the service of communicating, not an end in themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTJhHn-TuDY

Honestly, blows my mind people think this is anything other than musac for a second rate hotel.

Your loss.

Wheelspinner

rick_chasey said:

Honestly, blows my mind people think this is anything other than musac for a second rate hotel.

And yet you like Agoria?

skyblueamateur

rick_chasey said:

Jazz is f*cking sh!t and people who think it is music are taking the p!ss.

Way too far on the "random bunch of notes" end of the musical spectrum (with a single repetitive noise at the other end)

Anyone who dismisses a complete genre as 'f*cking sh1t' needs to open their minds a bit.

I regularly hear this bandied about Jazz so it's not an unpopular opinion.

Listen to Gris-Gris by Dr John or any Fela Kuti and Afro Beat. Not traditional jazz but very much in the Jazz spirit.

In fact f*ck it blast out Cop Shoot Cop by Spiritualized and tell me it's just a 'random bunch of notes'.

Jesse Jackson says it better then me:

'Because when we are together we got power… and we can make decisions…

Today on this program you will hear gospel, and rhythm and blues, and jazz. All those are just labels. We know that music is music… All of our people have got a soul, our experience determines the texture, the tastes and the sounds of our soul.'

rick_chasey

Wheelspinner said:

rick_chasey said:

Honestly, blows my mind people think this is anything other than musac for a second rate hotel.

And yet you like Agoria?

I never said I had taste ;-)

Good effort for spotting where the pic came from, mind.

briantrumpet

orraloon said:

I had a music teacher at school (a very loooong time ago) who opened the ears and minds of a bunch of 13-14yos into hard rock and blues by introducing us to Oscar Peterson and explaining (I guess in elementary terms) what was happening. That learning stuck.

Sometimes that's it: you just need someone to open a door for you, encourage you to investigate, and to give you some hints for what might interest you, if you look/listen. That's really all education is.

TheBigBean

Jazz is much better as live background music in somewhere with an atmosphere than somewhere like Ronnie Scott's

slowmart

Covid will help thin the gene pool in deprived areas

slowmart

"Covid is God's way of testing me" POTUS

Pross

rick_chasey said:

Jazz is f*cking sh!t and people who think it is music are taking the p!ss.

Way too far on the "random bunch of notes" end of the musical spectrum (with a single repetitive noise at the other end)

Define jazz. There's a lot that tortures my ears but then I was sat by the Seine a couple of years ago listening to a 3 piece band / female singer playing what I would think of a jazz and it was excellent.

briantrumpet

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Jazz is f*cking sh!t and people who think it is music are taking the p!ss.

Way too far on the "random bunch of notes" end of the musical spectrum (with a single repetitive noise at the other end)

Define jazz. There's a lot that tortures my ears but then I was sat by the Seine a couple of years ago listening to a 3 piece band / female singer playing what I would think of a jazz and it was excellent.

Almost impossible to define, though you can identify 'jazzness', which is a collection of possible attributes (groove, improvisation, harmonic language, etc.)

I'm not sure I could call everything Ella did as 'jazz' (though she was undoubtedly a 'jazz singer'), but this, for instance, is born out of jazz (whatever that is).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhmtZutSWJY

laurentian

"Jazz" has as wide a scope as "Rock". Can't stand some jazz but would sacrifice an organ to play guitar like Django . . .

pangolin

Remind me of a clip from one of the GTA IV radio stations - don't know whether any of you played it or not.

Timestamped link doesn't seem to work here, it's at 23:48

https://youtu.be/vlOSa2ISU1w?t=1428

"What do you call four geniuses soloing at once? Jazz."

mrfpb

ugo.santalucia said:

Punk music is the only music worth listening to... it did stand the test of time, unlike the other stuff of the same period like Yes and King Crimson

And yet the 70's turned into the 80's with Pink Floyd's Another Brick In the Wall at no.1 in the charts - from their huge double concept album.

Punk is dead, prog rock's on.

veronese68

Yet Rolling Stone Magazine's album of the 80's was London Calling by the Clash even though it was released in 1979.

Harry182

skyblueamateur said:

rick_chasey said:

Jazz is f*cking sh!t and people who think it is music are taking the p!ss.

Way too far on the "random bunch of notes" end of the musical spectrum (with a single repetitive noise at the other end)

Anyone who dismisses a complete genre as 'f*cking censored ' needs to open their minds a bit.

Was thinking "that's a rather broad brush RC's painting with". But the above response sums up the sentiment more succinctly. (Am holding hope that the original statement was said tongue-in-cheek and/or to be deliberately controversial/provocative.)

briantrumpet

laurentian said:

"Jazz" has as wide a scope as "Rock". Can't stand some jazz but would sacrifice an organ to play guitar like Django . . .

or a couple of fingers?

First.Aspect

Hi guys... oh, wait, this is dull I'll come back later.

Cargobike

ugo.santalucia said:

Punk music is the only music worth listening to... it did stand the test of time, unlike the other stuff of the same period like Yes and King Crimson

Eh?
Punk wasn't a 2 year timeframe in the late 70's, it's alive and thriving in 2020 too.
I should have been in Blackpool this weekend for the Rebellion Festival, admittedly with some bands playing from the supposed heyday, but the vast majority representing every decade since too.

mrfpb

ugo.santalucia said:

Punk music is the only music worth listening to... it did stand the test of time, unlike the other stuff of the same period like Yes and King Crimson

And King Crimson's "21st Century Schizoid Man" has been featuring in ad breaks for at least the last two years.

And still sounds more punk than most punk records.

ugo.santalucia

Cargobike said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Punk music is the only music worth listening to... it did stand the test of time, unlike the other stuff of the same period like Yes and King Crimson

Eh?
Punk wasn't a 2 year timeframe in the late 70's, it's alive and thriving in 2020 too.
I should have been in Blackpool this weekend for the Rebellion Festival, admittedly with some bands playing from the supposed heyday, but the vast majority representing every decade since too.

So is classical music, but ultimately it's still Mozart that rules...

And equally, it's Sex Pistols, The Clash, Ramones and a restricted bunch of other bands of the time that define Punk

DeVlaeminck

webboo said:

Did any of you ever buy a punk record.

Yes - was never a punk but bought SLF, Buzzcocks, Undertones, Sex Pistols and Ruts and probably a few more if I looked through my vinyl. Admittedly most of it in the early - mid 80s a few years after it was current .

DeVlaeminck

Used to roll up to a local jazz club on a knackered Vespa SS when I was 17 thinking I was in Absolute Beginners. I'm not a jazz buff by any means but love stuff like Mose Alison or this kind of stuff (if the link works) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kCDMQqDUtv4&ved=2ahUKEwiHwcOX5OjrAhUHXMAKHe2TCUEQ3ywwAnoECAUQAg&usg=AOvVaw2XOimdUaJhylXq0c2HdM8c

ballysmate

People are getting their underwear in a twist over the fear that Xmas may be 'cancelled'.
I don't give a flying one. In fact I'd drink to it being cancelled.

orraloon

ballysmate said:

People are getting their underwear in a twist over the fear that Xmas may be 'cancelled'.
I don't give a flying one. In fact I'd drink to it being cancelled.

In full Father Jack mode naturally. Drink! Feck! Erse! Gurls!

pblakeney

ballysmate said:

People are getting their underwear in a twist over the fear that Xmas may be 'cancelled'.
I don't give a flying one. In fact I'd drink to it being cancelled.

Cheers! 🍾🍾🍾

Cargobike

ballysmate said:

People are getting their underwear in a twist over the fear that Xmas may be 'cancelled'.
I don't give a flying one. In fact I'd drink to it being cancelled.

I'll be working 12 hours on Christmas Day, as will the OH.

Vastly overrated IMO.

Dorset_Boy

It's a nice mid-winter break to look forward to, but we tend to spend it on our own, so won't really be any different for us.
It's become the media's obsession.

shirley_basso

That is simply not true.

If you have a family you like but don't see that often, it's an absolutely fantastic time to get blazing drunk and have a fantastic 3 day knees up with them all - and we have quite a "formal" Christmas routine which I love.

The only problem is because I don't cycle as much as I used to, I currently eat less, so I can't fit in as much as I want come Christmas. Catch-22...

I always look forward to it and it never disappoints.

webboo

Without Christmas I would be cycling pretty much barearsed.