Forum home Road cycling forum Pro race

The cyclist, her drugs, her boss, her underwear and her coach

13»

Posts

  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Pross said:

    MattFalle said:

    It's almost like every case is different and doesn't bare comparison to others

    You race under UCI rules

    You break those rules

    You suffer the penalties under ICI rules


    If UCI rules say life ban, thats what it is no matter how many clubbies pull the jingoism card

    end of.
    Why is a former chemical company's rule book being used to dish out penalties to cyclists?
    Isn't Ineos essentially what ICI became?
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,723
    edited September 2021
    MattFalle said:

    It's almost like every case is different and doesn't bare comparison to others

    You race under UCI rules

    You break those rules

    You suffer the penalties under ICI rules

    If UCI rules say life ban, thats what it is no matter how many clubbies pull the jingoism card

    end of.
    Other than the life ban business, you're correct. Who's disputing it?

    I know what you're getting at. People have been questioning Sicot's excuse/reason and you've pulled Millar out of your @rse as some sort of shite comparison, because some people have accepted his contrition and moved on, and you can't accept that's for any other reason than he's British. That says more about your prejudices than anything else. Maybe, just maybe, people don't think somebody who cheats at sport should be hung, drawn and quartered and maybe they actually believe he's genuine, regardless of his nationality.

    Me, FWIW, I don't know or even really care about Millar's honesty, but someone bringing up unrelated 20 year old cases is either totally radicalised by cycling's past or is trying to troll. Or both.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,554
    elbowloh said:

    Pross said:

    MattFalle said:

    It's almost like every case is different and doesn't bare comparison to others

    You race under UCI rules

    You break those rules

    You suffer the penalties under ICI rules


    If UCI rules say life ban, thats what it is no matter how many clubbies pull the jingoism card

    end of.
    Why is a former chemical company's rule book being used to dish out penalties to cyclists?
    Isn't Ineos essentially what ICI became?
    Not exactly, it's a company that owns a lot of ex-ICI assets though
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,554
    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Am I missing the people who have said Millar shouldn't have been banned or is someone building a straw man ready for bonfire night?

    He's a tv commentator, still taking work from clean riders.
    But who are these people supporting him because he is posh and British? He gets criticised for his past regularly on here. I don't even think he's a good pundit as some on here say.
    I think he's a reasonable pundit myself.

    I prefer Blythe now though as a more recent rider.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,554
    I also don't think having done a naughty thing once should preclude you from ever doing anything else connected ever again. Just in general.
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,839

    I also don't think having done a naughty thing once should preclude you from ever doing anything else connected ever again. Just in general.

    Sick pickup line there, Bob! 😜
    PTP Champion 2019 & 2022
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,451

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Am I missing the people who have said Millar shouldn't have been banned or is someone building a straw man ready for bonfire night?

    He's a tv commentator, still taking work from clean riders.
    But who are these people supporting him because he is posh and British? He gets criticised for his past regularly on here. I don't even think he's a good pundit as some on here say.
    I think he's a reasonable pundit myself.

    I prefer Blythe now though as a more recent rider.

    I agree. I think there's a few coming through (on commentary too) like Matt Stephens and Dan Lloyd as well who understand that this is supposed to be fun. It's entertainment. I think Osi Umenyiora and Jason Bell showed the way on the NFL show
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • davidofdavidof Posts: 2,903
    cygnet said:

    It's not hard to decipher.
    She climbed 15400m. To climb that far she rode 187km uphill.

    Yes, I copied the km figure without thinking.

    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
    Instagramme
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,759

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    Am I missing the people who have said Millar shouldn't have been banned or is someone building a straw man ready for bonfire night?

    He's a tv commentator, still taking work from clean riders.
    But who are these people supporting him because he is posh and British? He gets criticised for his past regularly on here. I don't even think he's a good pundit as some on here say.
    I think he's a reasonable pundit myself.

    I prefer Blythe now though as a more recent rider.
    I used to think he was OK but the last time I heard him he was predicting tactics, something else would happen and he's say "there, you see that's what I was just talking about" when it clearly wasn't. Blythe has certainly raised the bar, he has the knowledge but is also an enthusiastic cycling fan who seems as in awe of what the top riders can do as the rest of us mere mortals.
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,452
    Maybe I'm not a passionate enough fan of sports, but I apply the same logic to sports people that I do to life in general. If you've committed a crime, you do your time under the rules and regulations that are around, and thereafter you've got the chance to rehabilitate and change.

    I've not seen anything in Millar's behaviour that would say that either a) he didn't deserve the full weight of punishment for the "crimes" he committed and that b) anything post his conviction in terms of contrition, rehabilitation and fundamental change in behaviours that leads me to think he is in any way a fake or a fraud *today*. His ban for 2 years looks pretty paltry by today's standards but that's a function of the time.

    I understand the jealousy that some will feel either personally or on behalf of those pro riders who always were and who remain clean; the widespread acceptance of his volte-face on drugs and his active campaigning against doping has seen him get into a position where he has earning power and potential that most other ex-dopers don't get into. But that's no different to "white hat" cyber criminals working for cybersecurity businesses, or convicted violent criminals working in inner city projects to combat gang violence. Rehab happens, on balance society benefits from it, and that's no different whether that "society" is pro cycling or the community at large.

    Trolling around about someone's behaviours from 20 years ago and making comments that apologies or changes in behaviour are fake is just childish nonsense.
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 11,644
    edited October 2021
    Why is someone have a differing opinion from you or Salsiccia "trolling"?

    Tbh, you could be "trolling" in your post above in some people's eyes. Definitly patronising, but also maybe trolling.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • Jealousy? I don't think so.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 11,644
    Re-reading his post?

    Jealoysy - don't think so
    Patronising - very much so
    Over use of hyperbole - definitly
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,723
    I consider it trolling because you're only bringing up a long-gone case to mock people, not as a genuine counterpoint. No-one sensible objects to a different opinion.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 11,644
    I don't because its the classic argument for "foreigner dopes hang them but dopey millar the doping cheat is british so lets forgive him and buy his overpriced clothes"

    those who ignore history....

    not one element of trolling at all.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 17,690

    Pross said:

    Am I missing the people who have said Millar shouldn't have been banned or is someone building a straw man ready for bonfire night?

    I think the strawman is that people only dislike Armstrong because he doped.
    Definitely this strawman.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,451
    edited October 2021
    MattFalle said:

    I don't because its the classic argument for "foreigner dopes hang them but dopey millar the doping cheat is british so lets forgive him and buy his overpriced clothes"

    those who ignore history....

    not one element of trolling at all.

    I'm not sure anyone is "Hanging the foreign doper". People like or don't like riders for other reasons.

    Personally I don't like the old dopers who cast aspersions on the current peloton despite not having been anywhere near it for over a decade.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,723
    MattFalle said:

    I don't because its the classic argument for "foreigner dopes hang them but dopey millar the doping cheat is british so lets forgive him and buy his overpriced clothes"

    those who ignore history....

    not one element of trolling at all.

    We'll agree to disagree then. But putting Millar's case in this thread appears to be shoe-horning to me.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,452

    Jealousy? I don't think so.

    You don't think that some other riders of Millar's generation under achieved because they were competing against cheats are jealous of Millar's ability to leverage his story of salvation from the evils of doping?

    Millar is only raised because he still has a very high profile. If he'd doped, been sanctioned and disappeared off to stack shelves at Tesco for the rest of his life he wouldn't raise the ire he does with some. It's only because he has that high profile and is still earning his crust from cycling that he is a problem figure to some, like MF above, surely?

    Jealousy isn't everyone's motive for disliking Millar, probably far from it, but it will be part of it.
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
  • larkimlarkim Posts: 2,452
    And as for why Millar. From my perspective as someone who is disconnected from the sport (I don't even ride a bike much, I'm a runner and care for athletics as a sport more than pro cycling) Millar is on my radar simply because he broadcasts at me on TV or via podcasts in the language I speak.

    If Millar was Italian or French or Dutch I'd treat him in the same way, for me at least it's nothing to do with his nationality as to why I'm happy to rehabilitate him and balance off what he does and says now vs what he did in the past. If I could be convinced that Armstrong was properly contrite and properly engaged with clean cycling I'd even have the same view about him. But I'm not, so he remains in the non-rehabilitated camp for me.
    2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
    2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
    2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
    2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
    2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
    2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)
Sign In or Register to comment.