Forum home Road cycling forum Pro race

Anti-doping agencies killed cycling

13»

Posts

  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 20,358

    Obviously a lot of people do cheat to greater or lesser extents (like in real life I guess). But to listen to Dumoulin you'd think everyone else was cheating but him.

    Which would suit me fine as it would explain why I always lose :wink:

    Michael Boogerd reckons he's past it.

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tom-dumoulin-has-already-passed-his-peak-says-michael-boogerd-457454
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,451
    He's only 29. He may have gone mentally though, like Andy Schleck after his knee injury
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,936
    RichN95. said:

    He's only 29. He may have gone mentally though, like Andy Schleck after his knee injury

    I sometimes wonder if he hasn't really got the stomach for it.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,554

    Obviously a lot of people do cheat to greater or lesser extents (like in real life I guess). But to listen to Dumoulin you'd think everyone else was cheating but him.

    Which would suit me fine as it would explain why I always lose :wink:

    Michael Boogerd reckons he's past it.

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tom-dumoulin-has-already-passed-his-peak-says-michael-boogerd-457454
    I mean, it's not like I think he's sore about it or something, I'm sure if he cared he could have put out a much bigger effort.

    I like the guy, I just think he is wrong in this particular case. Although he has come across quite whiney recently.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 20,358

    Obviously a lot of people do cheat to greater or lesser extents (like in real life I guess). But to listen to Dumoulin you'd think everyone else was cheating but him.

    Which would suit me fine as it would explain why I always lose :wink:

    Michael Boogerd reckons he's past it.

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tom-dumoulin-has-already-passed-his-peak-says-michael-boogerd-457454
    I mean, it's not like I think he's sore about it or something, I'm sure if he cared he could have put out a much bigger effort.

    I like the guy, I just think he is wrong in this particular case. Although he has come across quite whiney recently.
    To be fair he was pretty whiney when winning his Giro.
    Maybe his mum knew Addy Engels mum or something.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,451

    RichN95. said:

    He's only 29. He may have gone mentally though, like Andy Schleck after his knee injury

    I sometimes wonder if he hasn't really got the stomach for it.

    He originally wanted to be a doctor, but didn't get into medical school (despite good enough grades). I think cycling is a disappointed second choice.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 65,273 Lives Here
    RichN95. said:

    RichN95. said:

    He's only 29. He may have gone mentally though, like Andy Schleck after his knee injury

    I sometimes wonder if he hasn't really got the stomach for it.

    He originally wanted to be a doctor, but didn't get into medical school (despite good enough grades). I think cycling is a disappointed second choice.
    Was in the press last week saying his numbers are back up to what they were when he won the Giro.
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,839

    RichN95. said:

    He's only 29. He may have gone mentally though, like Andy Schleck after his knee injury

    I sometimes wonder if he hasn't really got the stomach for it.
    You could say he may be lacking gastro-intestinal fortitude. I'll let myself out... :wink:
    PTP Champion 2019 & 2022
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 25,178
    I think De Heer Boogerd has a touch of the DeVlamink about him...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,936
    m.r.m. said:

    RichN95. said:

    He's only 29. He may have gone mentally though, like Andy Schleck after his knee injury

    I sometimes wonder if he hasn't really got the stomach for it.
    You could say he may be lacking gastro-intestinal fortitude. I'll let myself out... :wink:
    I'm just pleased someone got it. I wasn't even trying to be subtle. I'll join you outside.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,674
    I got it but didn't comment, I did, however, think "I'll bet this runs and runs"
  • takethehighroadtakethehighroad Posts: 6,199
    If there's any more jokes at Tommy D's expense I'm gonna lose my $hit
  • floreriderflorerider Posts: 1,112
    Joking aside something is just plain wrong with 250W for that event. As an untrained but get the miles in and winter roller sessions recreational rider I get the typical 3/kg and I am twice his age.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 22,675

    Joking aside something is just plain wrong with 250W for that event. As an untrained but get the miles in and winter roller sessions recreational rider I get the typical 3/kg and I am twice his age.

    He wasn't trying his hardest. To say the least.

  • ProssPross Posts: 34,759

    I'd say it's true that most riders can't average 250W for an hour.

    Bear in mind this was an open event with thousands of amateurs involved. Not just professionals.

    When I joined Swift in April my FTP was 250W. I hadn't cycled regularly for several years and it's about 8 years since I've done any racing (I was rubbish back then), I also hadn't exercised for a few weeks. The couple of races I did saw me firmly towards the back of group C which suggests most of those doing Swift races are putting out more than 250W although I'm a fatty so my w/kg aren't great.
  • joe2019joe2019 Posts: 1,338
    Pross said:

    I'd say it's true that most riders can't average 250W for an hour.

    Bear in mind this was an open event with thousands of amateurs involved. Not just professionals.

    When I joined Swift in April my FTP was 250W. I hadn't cycled regularly for several years and it's about 8 years since I've done any racing (I was rubbish back then), I also hadn't exercised for a few weeks. The couple of races I did saw me firmly towards the back of group C which suggests most of those doing Swift races are putting out more than 250W although I'm a fatty so my w/kg aren't great.
    What's Swift?

  • ProssPross Posts: 34,759
    joe2019 said:

    Pross said:

    I'd say it's true that most riders can't average 250W for an hour.

    Bear in mind this was an open event with thousands of amateurs involved. Not just professionals.

    When I joined Swift in April my FTP was 250W. I hadn't cycled regularly for several years and it's about 8 years since I've done any racing (I was rubbish back then), I also hadn't exercised for a few weeks. The couple of races I did saw me firmly towards the back of group C which suggests most of those doing Swift races are putting out more than 250W although I'm a fatty so my w/kg aren't great.
    What's Swift?

    An autocorrect version of Zwift presumably!
  • joe2019joe2019 Posts: 1,338
    Thanks for clearing that up.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 22,675
    Pross said:

    I'd say it's true that most riders can't average 250W for an hour.

    Bear in mind this was an open event with thousands of amateurs involved. Not just professionals.

    When I joined Swift in April my FTP was 250W. I hadn't cycled regularly for several years and it's about 8 years since I've done any racing (I was rubbish back then), I also hadn't exercised for a few weeks. The couple of races I did saw me firmly towards the back of group C which suggests most of those doing Swift races are putting out more than 250W although I'm a fatty so my w/kg aren't great.
    W/kg is pretty important.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,554
    Pross said:

    I'd say it's true that most riders can't average 250W for an hour.

    Bear in mind this was an open event with thousands of amateurs involved. Not just professionals.

    When I joined Swift in April my FTP was 250W. I hadn't cycled regularly for several years and it's about 8 years since I've done any racing (I was rubbish back then), I also hadn't exercised for a few weeks. The couple of races I did saw me firmly towards the back of group C which suggests most of those doing Swift races are putting out more than 250W although I'm a fatty so my w/kg aren't great.
    My point wasn't exactly about the specific watts, just the principle of Dumoulin's whingeing... He effectively said everyone using it is either on miscalibrated equipment or is deliberately cheating. This wasn't Zwift either but the principle is the same.

    But since you mention it, 280 watts at the last test for me :smiley: ... Finishing in the bunch in Bs now, gone from the top of C into a reasonable position in Bs. Weight is down from 77kg to 71 kg so 4 w/kg is almost there! It does help massively.

    I always thought I might have 4 w/kg in me but I didn't realise I would actually be able to get there, turns out cutting out all work travel and trips away was all I needed. I've managed a consistent run of hitting all my planned workouts since late Feb/early March now, and it just keeps going up (I did do Festive 500 this year as well so I came into it pretty good). My previous record FTP was 263.

    Course choice is every bit as important as in real life. I did a crit on Friday (about 20 minutes), averaged 4.2 w/kg / 295 watts for the race but the guys finishing above me had the same or less w/kg except with significantly more average watts (310, 320 watts plus) - the course rewards raw watts (or watts/drag more accurately I guess) over w/kg. I've not really figured out what suits me best as my w/kg is always going to be beaten by the really tiny guys and my raw watts is always going to be beaten by the 80+kg guys churning out 300-350. Possibly finishing with the lead group is as good as I'll get...

    The other thing that is useful is short power, which I guess is also the same in real life. Mine is absolutely awful. I finished with the bunch on Friday but I had absolutely no kick in the last few hundred metres to score a better position. If you look at the (in)famous Coggan power chart, while I'm reasonable for threshold and 5 minute power, my one minute and sprint is just terrible - off the bottom of the chart terrible to begin with, although it is improving. Presumably this is the result of spending the last 4-5 years trying to boost my FTP, but there is probably something physiological there too as I have always been focused on endurance sports.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 21,857
    I'd have thought that W/kg was at it's most crucial on climbs.
    Should tie in with your W/drag theory.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,554
    pblakeney said:

    I'd have thought that W/kg was at it's most crucial on climbs.
    Should tie in with your W/drag theory.

    Yeah, definitely. The crit course is flat (and short) so rewards people who can just get out loads of watts, weight still makes a difference but it rewards big powerful riders.

    Many/most of the races on Zwift aren't on the big climbs though. Organisers seem to prefer shorter circuits or courses with smaller climbs, but the big climbs don't feature as much.
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,759

    Pross said:

    I'd say it's true that most riders can't average 250W for an hour.

    Bear in mind this was an open event with thousands of amateurs involved. Not just professionals.

    When I joined Swift in April my FTP was 250W. I hadn't cycled regularly for several years and it's about 8 years since I've done any racing (I was rubbish back then), I also hadn't exercised for a few weeks. The couple of races I did saw me firmly towards the back of group C which suggests most of those doing Swift races are putting out more than 250W although I'm a fatty so my w/kg aren't great.
    My point wasn't exactly about the specific watts, just the principle of Dumoulin's whingeing... He effectively said everyone using it is either on miscalibrated equipment or is deliberately cheating. This wasn't Zwift either but the principle is the same.
    Yeah, I was just pointing out that his whinge seemed ridiculous considering even I'm just about capable of the numbers he was quoting and I wouldn't even call myself a cyclist these days (or even particularly fit).

Sign In or Register to comment.