Virtual TdF in 2020, why not?

2

Comments

  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,359
    Indoor cycling is good training. It's not cycling.

    That said, there is no harm in adapting to circumstances and trying stuff out and having fun while doing that.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,528
    Importantly, what food and wines are region specific to areas in Watopia?
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,936
    De Ronde 2020 Lockdown Edition.

    https://www.rondevanvlaanderen.be/en/rvv/elite-men/news/tour-flanders-still-next-sunday

    TOUR OF FLANDERS STILL ON NEXT SUNDAY

    Of course, the real Tour of Flanders has been postponed for the time being in line with the guidelines issued by the government to prevent the coronavirus from spreading. Nevertheless, we have found an alternative for the Tour of Flanders this Sunday - with the first virtual edition ever, as well a radio play featuring 104 years of Flanders Finest.

    Follow the Tour of Flanders social media channels and find out where to watch this unique event.

    This year, the Tour of Flanders will not be held once, but twice. Visit Flanders, Cycling in Flanders, Flanders Classics and Sporza joined forces to create a radio story: The Officially Unbelievable Ronde van Vlaanderen. In collaboration with Het Geluidhuis and Bowling Brands, they will transport cycling fans to an era of unwritten, thrilling cycling history - just as if you were listening to the commentary to a genuine, live cycling race.
    Get ready for a story with some incredible plot twists, featuring cameo appearances by heroes from one hundred years of cycling history such as Eddy Merckx, Johan Museeuw, Fabian Cancellara, Mario Cipollini, Briek Schotte, Bradley Wiggins, Fausto Coppi and the Van der Poel family.
    Don't miss this unique storytelling concept and tune in this weekend. Rob Hatch and Matt Stephens will take you along on the virtual 2020 Tour of Flanders with exceptional live commentary.

    Details here:
    https://www.cycling-in-flanders.cc/

    Sporza is covering the virtual race with commentary by Michel Wuyts and José De Cauwer. Coverage starts at 3.30pm CET.
    Thirteen top pro riders will "race" the last 32 kilometers of the Tour of Flanders.
    They are:
    Zdenek Stybar
    Mike Teunissen
    Michael Matthews
    Nicolas Roche
    Alberto Bettiol*
    Greg Van Avermaet
    Remco Evenepoel
    Oliver Naesen
    Wout Van Aert
    Yves Lampaert
    Tim Wellens
    Thomas De Gendt
    Jasper Stuyven
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    How will we know a rider's weight is truly set in the Zwift (or whatever virtual riding environment is used) app?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,187
    dodgy said:

    How will we know a rider's weight is truly set in the Zwift (or whatever virtual riding environment is used) app?


    Who cares? It's just a few people having some fun on a video game. It's not a real race, there are no prizes.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,528
    dodgy said:

    How will we know a rider's weight is truly set in the Zwift (or whatever virtual riding environment is used) app?

    You aren't suggesting cyclists would artificially enhance their performance?
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,198
    Presumably its a bit easier to control in a small race with a few pros than your average Zwift race.

    If you really cared enough I am sure there are some other ways to get a more reliable weight with limited numbers of riders like this.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,198

    “Climbing” on a turbo is unbearable.

    Unless you jack the front wheel up or something it's exactly the same as riding on the flat...

    If you have a smart turbo it will probably up the resistance but you just alter gearing to match (like IRL). But provided you've got the gear range putting out 200 watts or whatever going up a virtual 10% incline feels exactly the same as putting out 200 watts on the flat. Except your avatar moves slower...
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    i'll give it a watch to kill the boredom.

    ive not tried the B:Kool app so interesting to see what it looks like
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,936
    edited April 2020
    From 1-30pm tomorrow if anyone can be arsed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itrWP4G8U44
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,198
    phreak said:

    phreak said:

    dabber said:

    I'd love to see how Zwift would implement/render 21 new stage routes. Given the paucity of routes currently available it would be "some challenge" to do that. :)

    .......

    A platform designed for overweight dentists isn't a great environment to truly test the best riders in the world.
    Is that why half the pro peloton have been using it for the last couple of years?
    Or do you just enjoy insulting a couple of hundred thousand people?
    There's no need to be a complete Tool.

    Zwift could easily create a route that included say the mega pretzel plus the Alpe - that would be selective.
    Also don't expect the same guys that win IRL to win in a virtual world.

    I've been on the site for years, and it's been noticeable in that time that practically all of the new routes have been largely flat with the odd short hill on them. The only climb even remotely resembling something they do in the real Tour is the Alpe, and it's hardly enough to build a pro race around.

    It's also clear from looking at the race schedule on Zwift that the vast majority are run on those same largely flat routes with the odd short hill on them. Very few go up the Epic KOM, and even fewer go up the Alpe. Given that Zwift clearly have the data that shows the routes people use most often, and keep producing the same kind of flat courses, it's not exactly a great leap to suggest that most riders want flat courses rather than Alpine climbs.
    I was doing some reading about the Alpe du Zwift because we are doing it as a club ride next weekend.

    They said they would only include really big climbs if/when they could make sure it was "gamified" to the same level as the rest of the platform. Which I took to mean they didn't want to put in hour long slogs without anything to break them up. I guess the Alpe works quite well for that with the 21 hairpins.

    There seems to be a lot of races scheduled on the KOM and the Alpe, but obviously there are stacks of races in general and there are more flat or flattish courses (especially with the crit course now).
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,020

    From 1-30pm tomorrow if anyone can be arsed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itrWP4G8U44


    It was shite

  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    Yeah it wasn't a great watch.

    In my opinion all these Esports are a bit of desperation and very hard to watch. It feels like watching someone playing an xbox game. The f1 races at least have a bit of amusement occasionally thanks to the crashes possible but after watching the one last night, even that wears off quickly.

    Think yesterday's virtual tour of Flanders may have killed off the idea of a series as it has generally been panned.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,199

    “Climbing” on a turbo is unbearable.

    Unless you jack the front wheel up or something it's exactly the same as riding on the flat...

    If you have a smart turbo it will probably up the resistance but you just alter gearing to match (like IRL). But provided you've got the gear range putting out 200 watts or whatever going up a virtual 10% incline feels exactly the same as putting out 200 watts on the flat. Except your avatar moves slower...
    There's something about the flywheel moving much more slowly that makes high resistance stationary cycling feel a lot less natural and much worse than knocking out the same effort at a lower resistance.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,198
    I didn't watch it, but when I've watched stuff like this before the weak link is the coverage - they need to work on in-game helicopter views etc. like a real race and showing time gaps properly. Otherwise you're just watching a bunch of guys on turbo trainers.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    didnt help that the official feed had no comms, GCN stream wasnt great then managed to find it on Eurosport.

    Wasnt a great advert for BKOOL, i was loiking to test that out as Zwift doesnt do it for me but will skip it now.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    sherer said:

    didnt help that the official feed had no comms, GCN stream wasnt great then managed to find it on Eurosport.

    Wasnt a great advert for BKOOL, i was loiking to test that out as Zwift doesnt do it for me but will skip it now.

    Don't let it put you off bkool. I'm a subscriber and much prefer it to zwift as I like the video routes.

    It does have some nuances, for example if you are looking for a route and view one on page 5 of results but then opt to go back to the search results, it drops you back on page 1. Bl00dy annoying!

    There also doesn't seem to have been much of an increase in video routes available over the last year, so that's definitely something they need to improve, but I paid £36 for a year's premium subscription and I'm more than happy with what's available.
  • dabber
    dabber Posts: 1,928
    When you look at virtual Strava segments which are common to a variety of virtual applications it used to be common to see performances towards the top of the leaderboards that were totally unrealistic that had been ridden on Bkool.
    Things like 22 mph average up the rides like the Tourmalet with average power of 140 watts... must have been some very light riders.
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,187
    I made sure I didn't watch so that my preconceived opinion couldn't be challenged.

    No, I actually did watch it and enjoyed it. It had the ebbs and flows of a real race and the riders looked to be giving it their all. The improvement I'd make is to redesign the roads. Render cobbled roads to look like they have cobbles. Narrow the roads where appropriate. Exaggerate the gradients a little. Just give it the right look.

    Other observations: Matthews and Van Aert failed the 'no trophies in view' test. Stybar has a nice balcony arrangement. And Oliver Naesen lives in a nuclear bunker (or maybe his wife is the housekeeper for a wealthy Korean family)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,199
    Beginning to see why Naesen is so insistent on riding outdoors...
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,579
    Are all the races doing this? Should we be running a virtual PTP?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,187
    dish_dash said:

    Are all the races doing this? Should we be running a virtual PTP?

    I think the next scheduled one is a mini Tour de Suisse in a couple of weeks
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,579
    RichN95. said:

    dish_dash said:

    Are all the races doing this? Should we be running a virtual PTP?

    I think the next scheduled one is a mini Tour de Suisse in a couple of weeks
    Maybe I'll run one if I'm sufficiently bored by then...
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    RichN95. said:

    dish_dash said:

    Are all the races doing this? Should we be running a virtual PTP?

    I think the next scheduled one is a mini Tour de Suisse in a couple of weeks
    You are correct. This time on Rouvy, which I prefer to Zwift anyway. It's backed by Velon and seems to have most of the teams taking part,no idea on who the riders will be yet though
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,936
    I have zero interest in any virtual racing when there is so much historical content available on YouTube etc.

    For instance everybody bemoans the fact that there hasn't been a wet Paris-Roubaix in ages, so why not watch the edition that CW picked as their one to watch: 1994?
    Taking a wild guess here but I doubt many forumites have seen it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGlAQ0HECNg
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,114
    A virtual P-R would be pointless, the whole race is about battling for position to avoid crashing or mechanicals on the cobbles. Without that it would just be a virtually flat and featureless race. To make virtual racing bearable we need to wait until the software and hardware can properly adjust to road surfaces and movement so that if you make a mistake on your cornering or get too close to a rider in front you crash as you would in real life.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,114

    “Climbing” on a turbo is unbearable.

    Unless you jack the front wheel up or something it's exactly the same as riding on the flat...

    If you have a smart turbo it will probably up the resistance but you just alter gearing to match (like IRL). But provided you've got the gear range putting out 200 watts or whatever going up a virtual 10% incline feels exactly the same as putting out 200 watts on the flat. Except your avatar moves slower...
    There's something about the flywheel moving much more slowly that makes high resistance stationary cycling feel a lot less natural and much worse than knocking out the same effort at a lower resistance.
    The biggest issue I find with climbing is being unable to get out of the saddle and, if you try, there being no opportunity to move the bike side to side whilst 'honking'. I have the same issue if I just want to stretch my legs and give my saddle area a rest (which is a frequent requirement given my lack of time in the saddle over the past few years).
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,034
    Pross said:

    “Climbing” on a turbo is unbearable.

    Unless you jack the front wheel up or something it's exactly the same as riding on the flat...

    If you have a smart turbo it will probably up the resistance but you just alter gearing to match (like IRL). But provided you've got the gear range putting out 200 watts or whatever going up a virtual 10% incline feels exactly the same as putting out 200 watts on the flat. Except your avatar moves slower...
    There's something about the flywheel moving much more slowly that makes high resistance stationary cycling feel a lot less natural and much worse than knocking out the same effort at a lower resistance.
    The biggest issue I find with climbing is being unable to get out of the saddle and, if you try, there being no opportunity to move the bike side to side whilst 'honking'. I have the same issue if I just want to stretch my legs and give my saddle area a rest (which is a frequent requirement given my lack of time in the saddle over the past few years).
    Kurt Kinetic would be the solution.
    If only their software wasn't cack.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.