What chain lube are people using these days?

First.Aspect

neeb wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Imposter wrote:

neeb wrote:

And shiny chains & cassettes are nice.

Best way to keep them like that is to leave them in the garage..

Or Zwift.

5w isn't to be scoffed at, if it was real.

If we added up all the wattages that have been saved, by all of the kit manufacturers who have saved them for us, we would need to chain our bikes up at night to stop them taking off.

Do you have anything positive to contribute? If so, please share (edit - that goes for both of you)

Use oil not a "dry lube". The term is an oxymoron.

There are various things which could be termed "wax". It's really a colloquial term describing a consistency. Paraffin wax is a petroleum product.

It's all biodegradable (there's energy to be had by oxidizing it, after all) so don't get a biodegradable one just for that.

If you are after carbon neutrality that's fine, go for something plant based like muc-off but the we use such tiny tiny amounts you'd make more difference, by far, recycling a single plastic bottle then buying a tube of that stuff. Which comes in a plastic bottle, by the way.

Engine oils are engineered to stick to iron. A bit like detergents are to water. Other than that they are the same as paraffin "wax". There's a famous patent case where they realised that their clever lubricants were also corrosion inhibitors for this reason... I won't bore you. The point is if you want something that gives you any chance of sticking to your chain but not for example brake dust, something like finish line, which is basically Castrol, is your best best.

But even that is pointless because most of the black sh!t on your chain is rubber from tyres, bitumen coated bits of road, or other oily things from vehicles. Anything oily or soapy will be more than happy to stick to that stuff because it is chemically similar. Long.hydrocarbon chains stuck to other long hydrocarbon chains... and aromatic sooty crap like they use for tarmac.

Teflon based lubes work on the idea of providing a low friction non stick surface. But it's only an idea. Theyy rub off, quickly. Teflon does not flow. I do a lot of patent work in relation to this material.

Ceramic based lubes less sure of. I can think of two options; either an attempt to basically infiltrate the chain with a layered crystalline substance (talc, that sort of general.idea) or to do something analogous to the teflon lubes - infiltrating with a low surface friction material. Again, once the alcohol in which they are suspended is gone, you are left with a solid that rubs off between moving parts. Ceramic is just a fancy word for stone by the way. Kinda.

All this means is that you can have clean, but short term lubricants, or long lasting ones that attract dirt. And frankly most of the clean ones disproportionately seem that way because their users are fanatical chain cleaners in the first place. That's called confirmation bias.

In summary, as a PhD chemist who specialised in a type of surface chemistry, with an Oxford first in chemistry, some r&d experience in chemistry and who has also worked on chemical patents, my opinion is that there is no holy grail here. You can go light and insignificantly faster, but not durable, or gloopy and immesurably slower.

These are just my opinions until I read something that isn't just marketing fluff.

I'm not holding my breath though. The bike industry is so small, relatively, that there's nothing new in it from a chemistry perspective, and all we are sold are reformulations of what's available. Since I have worked with a lot of SMEs and even large companies, and done some r&d myself, I know from experience that the scientific method often takes a back seat to trial end error, in the "all hands to the pump" commercial environment. I also know from considerable personal experience that marketing teams can polish any turd.

So please take apparently unhelpful skepticism as helpful advice to stop chasing your tail and stop wasting your time and money.

I'm.guessing you won't read this far.

neeb

Shortfall wrote:

I think they did, they encouraged you not to waste a ton of money on gimmicky products with good marketing when there are cheaper products that do the job just as well. FWIW I use EP 90 gear oil on my chains which is less than a tenner for a litre. I rotate 3 chains on a cassette and change them before .75 on the chain checker. So far on my current Chorus cassette with KMC chains I'm up to 7.5k miles and I haven't had to bin a chain yet. Most of my mileage on this bike is dry weather. My Winter bike runs Sora so I just wear them out and swap them as and when, no idea on mileage as they're so cheap. I'm 17 stone. YMMV.

Odd as this may sound, the amount of money I spend on chain lube isn't something I am ever going to lose sleep over, unless the zombie apocalypse / worst-case brexit happens and I have to start counting the pennies to save up for used inner tube patches..

As I said initially, I've been using Finish Line for decades. It lasts forever - can't remember what year I last had to spend a fiver on a new bottle. Even if any alternative costs ten times as much, that's really still not going to be a factor for me... Neither do I spend hours worrying about chain lube efficiency - if memory serves, I've been using the Finish Line wet lube since at least the early 90s withiut really thinking about it.

If once every 30 years or so I spend a few minutes examining the possibility that there could be other things out there that work just as well, keep my chain a little cleaner and might just save me a few watts, I hope I may be forgiven for my indulgence..

brokenbanjo

Stihl chainsaw chain oil. Former owner of the house left 5l of the stuff in the garage so figured i’d Use it. Seems to lube the chain. Don’t think i’ve Noticed whether or not i’m Going faster or slower because of it.

First.Aspect

Well you did ask.

I went into a shop.a few weeks ago and was told that finish line was a MTB lubricant and that I needed a road one. And a dry lube is best.

When I pointed out that we were in Scotland and besides I couldn't even do 100k on a rented bike in Mallorca before my dry lubed chain sounded like a twist of lemming (I phrased it differently in the shop), I was told to clean my chain after every ride. Which would be 8-12 times a week.

So I find the topic amusing and infuriating in equal measure.

Stick with finish line. If there's something better you won't hear it first within the cycling world, that's for sure.

neeb

First Aspect wrote:

So please take apparently unhelpful skepticism as helpful advice to stop chasing your tail and stop wasting your time and money.

I'm.guessing you won't read this far.

Why should I have done that?

Your eventual advice was indeed interesting and potentially helpful - but you started with the unhelpful skepticism...

<edit - and finished with a pointless insult - attitude issues>

First.Aspect

neeb wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

So please take apparently unhelpful skepticism as helpful advice to stop chasing your tail and stop wasting your time and money.

I'm.guessing you won't read this far.

Why should I have done that?

Your eventual advice was indeed interesting and potentially helpful - but you started with the unhelpful skepticism...

<edit - and finished with a pointless insult - attitude issues>

Well, we can agree on my attitude issues at least. Thanks for reading!!!

W12_Lad

First Aspect wrote:

neeb wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Imposter wrote:

neeb wrote:

And shiny chains & cassettes are nice.

Best way to keep them like that is to leave them in the garage..

Or Zwift.

5w isn't to be scoffed at, if it was real.

If we added up all the wattages that have been saved, by all of the kit manufacturers who have saved them for us, we would need to chain our bikes up at night to stop them taking off.

Do you have anything positive to contribute? If so, please share (edit - that goes for both of you)

Use oil not a "dry lube". The term is an oxymoron.

There are various things which could be termed "wax". It's really a colloquial term describing a consistency. Paraffin wax is a petroleum product.

It's all biodegradable (there's energy to be had by oxidizing it, after all) so don't get a biodegradable one just for that.

If you are after carbon neutrality that's fine, go for something plant based like muc-off but the we use such tiny tiny amounts you'd make more difference, by far, recycling a single plastic bottle then buying a tube of that stuff. Which comes in a plastic bottle, by the way.

Engine oils are engineered to stick to iron. A bit like detergents are to water. Other than that they are the same as paraffin "wax". There's a famous patent case where they realised that their clever lubricants were also corrosion inhibitors for this reason... I won't bore you. The point is if you want something that gives you any chance of sticking to your chain but not for example brake dust, something like finish line, which is basically Castrol, is your best best.

But even that is pointless because most of the black sh!t on your chain is rubber from tyres, bitumen coated bits of road, or other oily things from vehicles. Anything oily or soapy will be more than happy to stick to that stuff because it is chemically similar. Long.hydrocarbon chains stuck to other long hydrocarbon chains... and aromatic sooty crap like they use for tarmac.

Teflon based lubes work on the idea of providing a low friction non stick surface. But it's only an idea. Theyy rub off, quickly. Teflon does not flow. I do a lot of patent work in relation to this material.

Ceramic based lubes less sure of. I can think of two options; either an attempt to basically infiltrate the chain with a layered crystalline substance (talc, that sort of general.idea) or to do something analogous to the teflon lubes - infiltrating with a low surface friction material. Again, once the alcohol in which they are suspended is gone, you are left with a solid that rubs off between moving parts. Ceramic is just a fancy word for stone by the way. Kinda.

All this means is that you can have clean, but short term lubricants, or long lasting ones that attract dirt. And frankly most of the clean ones disproportionately seem that way because their users are fanatical chain cleaners in the first place. That's called confirmation bias.

In summary, as a PhD chemist who specialised in a type of surface chemistry, with an Oxford first in chemistry, some r&d experience in chemistry and who has also worked on chemical patents, my opinion is that there is no holy grail here. You can go light and insignificantly faster, but not durable, or gloopy and immesurably slower.

These are just my opinions until I read something that isn't just marketing fluff.

I'm not holding my breath though. The bike industry is so small, relatively, that there's nothing new in it from a chemistry perspective, and all we are sold are reformulations of what's available. Since I have worked with a lot of SMEs and even large companies, and done some r&d myself, I know from experience that the scientific method often takes a back seat to trial end error, in the "all hands to the pump" commercial environment. I also know from considerable personal experience that marketing teams can polish any turd.

So please take apparently unhelpful skepticism as helpful advice to stop chasing your tail and stop wasting your time and money.

I'm.guessing you won't read this far.

Best reposte I've seen in a long time.

rwoofer

The problem I found with Squirt was that the waxy deposits would build up on things like the jockey wheels and would be a real pain to clean off. Now use MucOff ceramic lube, which is very easy to clean and Finish Line Wet Lube.

neeb

W12 lad wrote:

Best reposte I've seen in a long time.

Bit wordy for a riposte.. but a reasonable response to my request.

I'll ask again in another 30 years - it's in my Google calendar.

Wayne Plunger

Why do people on this board feel the need to constantly remind us of their qualifications / jobs?

Surely the "Cake Stop" is the preferred platform for self indulgence, do we need it on a thread about oiling your bl--ding chain?

pblakeney

Someone backing up their advice with qualifications is better than simply asking questions without contributing. Wouldn't you agree?

Wayne Plunger

PBlakeney wrote:

Someone backing up their advice with qualifications is better than simply asking questions without contributing. Wouldn't you agree?

If you read the thread back I have said what I use, this to me constitutes a contribution.

First.Aspect

Wayne Plunger wrote:

Why do people on this board feel the need to constantly remind us of their qualifications / jobs?

Surely the "Cake Stop" is the preferred platform for self indulgence, do we need it on a thread about oiling your bl--ding chain?

Its not ideal, but someone said, show me the money so I said how do you like them apples. He then accepted that they were quite good apples and we all lived happily ever after. I won't do it again, I promise.

What are your qualifications? Sorry. That just slipped out.

mercia_man

I don’t have an Oxford first in chain lubes but I have used many types over the past 60 years or so including Finish Line, Muc-Off, White Lightning, Pedro's, Halfords, Rock and Roll, car engine oil and gear oil, motorcycle chain spray lube and chainsaw oil. It’s pretty simple. My qualification for pontificating on the subject is that I use the stuff. I don’t think you need to be a scientist to assess which works best for you. I buy what’s available and use a rag to wipe off the excess and keep my chain looking shiny. Regular cleaning and lubricating helps my chains, cassettes and chainrings last longer.

I keep going back to Finish Line. Wet for my all-weather tourer and dry for my fine weather road bike. Both types work well and are widely available. My experience of the types which evaporate to leave a dry waxy film is that the wax builds up into hard-to-remove gunge on my jockey wheels and cassette. Thick oils such as gear oil attract more dirt, lighter oils fling off onto my rear rim. Finish Line both wet or dry has the consistency just right in my view.

First.Aspect

Mercia Man wrote:

I don’t have an Oxford first in chain lubes but I have used many types over the past 60 years or so including Finish Line, Muc-Off, White Lightning, Pedro's, Halfords, Rock and Roll, car engine oil and gear oil, motorcycle chain spray lube and chainsaw oil. It’s pretty simple. My qualification for pontificating on the subject is that I use the stuff. I don’t think you need to be a scientist to assess which works best for you. I buy what’s available and use a rag to wipe off the excess and keep my chain looking shiny. Regular cleaning and lubricating helps my chains, cassettes and chainrings last longer.

I keep going back to Finish Line. Wet for my all-weather tourer and dry for my fine weather road bike. Both types work well and are widely available. My experience of the types which evaporate to leave a dry waxy film is that the wax builds up into hard-to-remove gunge on my jockey wheels and cassette. Thick oils such as gear oil attract more dirt, lighter oils fling off onto my rear rim. Finish Line both wet or dry has the consistency just right in my view.

I agree. I just figured that people would be less likely to assert that boiling your chain in beeswax from Lush saves 100W and leaves your chain cleaner than a dishwasher even for cyclocross, if I blew a little smoke. Seems to have worked quite well, apart from everyone hating me.

mercia_man

First Aspect wrote:

Mercia Man wrote:

I don’t have an Oxford first in chain lubes but I have used many types over the past 60 years or so including Finish Line, Muc-Off, White Lightning, Pedro's, Halfords, Rock and Roll, car engine oil and gear oil, motorcycle chain spray lube and chainsaw oil. It’s pretty simple. My qualification for pontificating on the subject is that I use the stuff. I don’t think you need to be a scientist to assess which works best for you. I buy what’s available and use a rag to wipe off the excess and keep my chain looking shiny. Regular cleaning and lubricating helps my chains, cassettes and chainrings last longer.

I keep going back to Finish Line. Wet for my all-weather tourer and dry for my fine weather road bike. Both types work well and are widely available. My experience of the types which evaporate to leave a dry waxy film is that the wax builds up into hard-to-remove gunge on my jockey wheels and cassette. Thick oils such as gear oil attract more dirt, lighter oils fling off onto my rear rim. Finish Line both wet or dry has the consistency just right in my view.

I agree. I just figured that people would be less likely to assert that boiling your chain in beeswax from Lush saves 100W and leaves your chain cleaner than a dishwasher even for cyclocross, if I blew a little smoke. Seems to have worked quite well, apart from everyone hating me.

Well I don’t hate you. I enjoyed your detailed and informative contribution. There’s so much marketing around 21st century cycling - and so many gullible cyclists who swallow it wholesale. And it seems you and I both like Finish Line!

keef66

I too enjoyed reading First Aspect's disertation

I started out using Finish Line Wet because I bought the bike in September and the bike shop suggested it for the coming winter. That was 12 years ago and I still have the bottle. Maybe I was over applying it, not removing the excess, or not cleaning the chain frequently enough, but I found it produced too much thick black gunk. Same result when I tried left over engine or gearbox oils.
Brief flirtation with wax lubes, Squirt among them, but found them useless in the wet, and didn't like the wax flaking off onto the rear rim.
Now I just use good old 3-in-1 oil. Seems thin enough to penetrate quickly and wash out muck, thick enough to stay on the chain and protect it from corrosion, but not attract too much dirt.

navrig2

Does it matter?

For exposed surfaces which are fairly regularly cleaned and re-lubed the actual lube probably doesn't count too much towards the smooth operation. So use whatever you can get cheap.

For sealed components with high temperatures and long periods between servicing the lubrication is a key component of reliability and extended life.

bobones

Just bought some Tru-Tension BananaSlip Tungsten Wet Lube because it was recommended by a mate.

.

I haven't used it yet so have nothing to report. I usually just use Muck-Off stuff from Aldi because it's cheap and it stops my chain from squeaking. I have tried a couple of different "dry" lubes on my summer bike, but I find them a bit too noisy so went back to the stuff that makes your chain go black. Hoping this new stuff will keep it a bit cleaner.

FatTed

I use Bike Mix, seems to work OK, but that maybe because i clean my chain quite often
https://www.ridemechanic.com.au/index.p ... s/bike-mix

imposter2.0

bobones wrote:

Just bought some Tru-Tension BananaSlip Tungsten Wet Lube because it was recommended by a mate.

'Bananaslip', ffs - he was having you on...

christimson

The All Weather stuff is really good, the best I've used. The bottle is only half full which feels a bit of a rip off though.

imposter2.0

christimson wrote:

The All Weather stuff is really good, the best I've used. The bottle is only half full which feels a bit of a rip off though.

It's a 50ml bottle - are you saying there's only 25ml in there?

harry-s

Bananaslip. Blimey.
£10 for 50ml.
Macallan 10 year old, £3.85 for 50ml.
I know where my money's going...

imposter2.0

Harry-S wrote:

Bananaslip. Blimey.
£10 for 50ml.
Macallan 10 year old, £3.85 for 50ml.
I know where my money's going...

Agreed. Who knew bananas could be so expensive?

shiznit76

Just bought the bananaslip stuff, it is very watery, almost like putting liquid viscosity of water on instead of something that is going tick to chain and do job.
Not rode with it yet, but have heard some good stuff about it

imposter2.0

shiznit76 wrote:

Just bought the bananaslip stuff, it is very watery, almost like putting liquid viscosity of water on instead of something that is going tick to chain and do job.
Not rode with it yet, but have heard some good stuff about it

Does it taste of bananas?

shiznit76

Disappointingly it isn't even yellow! :-)

larkim

On the bananaslip stuff, on my FB feed the following ad (fingers crossed the link works) keeps appearing, and it's doing my nut in how the guy is pedalling but the chain isn't moving. Am I missing something?

https://www.facebook.com/348565022474211/posts/416420455688667/

mamil314

Wayne Plunger said:

Why do people on this board feel the need to constantly remind us of their qualifications / jobs?



Surely the "Cake Stop" is the preferred platform for self indulgence, do we need it on a thread about oiling your bl--ding chain?

Why do people on this forum are so eager to expose their insecurities? I, for one, am glad that First Aspect person pointed out his qualifications. With so much conflicting advice, who's words should be listened to, if not experts' who deal with this on a daily basis, professionally?