Refugees Channel crossing

bradsbeard

Pross wrote:

bradsbeard wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

bradsbeard wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

bradsbeard wrote:

Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.

You know your probably right.

Any luck finding something to back up that 95% claim?

BBC quote most arriving present as Iranian. I cannot recall where I read the 95% claim but reading gives an indication that most are Iranian.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-49662172

There's a linked article going back to last November about 100 immigrants claiming to be Iranian attempting to cross the Channel. My reading of the article is that they aren't necessarily Iranian but are claiming to be as that allowed them visa free entry into Serbia, where they were far better treated than Iraqis, Afghans, Syrians etc., before travelling on to the UK.

Okay but tell me why not give your real nationality to UK border officials rather than still claim to be Iranian?

Not just BBC article from last year stating but plenty if you Google going back 2 days. Most present as Iranian and Iraqi.

Anyway you can be from Timbuktu still doesn't alter it's a bloody daft way to try and gain entry.

Longshot

Rick Chasey wrote:

Longshot wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

I once had to listen to an idiot droning on about refugees and illegal immigrants claiming benefits and taking jobs. The fact that illegal immigrants can't claim as they are illegal was completely lost on him. It eventually became apparent he was talking about Eastern Europeans being here completely legally and working, he finished by saying he was fed up of it and if it carried on he would move to France.

France?! They have a worse immigration problem than we do.

What's the problem?

I was thinking about it from the point of view of the guy who was leaving the UK because of immigration - I'm assuming he sees it as a problem.

thegreatdivide

bradsbeard wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

bradsbeard wrote:

Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.

You know your probably right.

I'm sure quite a few of them can spell better than you.

thegreatdivide

Here's an eye opening documentary some of you need to watch:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007sws

You can view it while you iron your England bed spreads.

bradsbeard

thegreatdivide wrote:

bradsbeard wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

bradsbeard wrote:

Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.

You know your probably right.

I'm sure quite a few of them can spell better than you.

Probably. And?

rick_chasey

Longshot wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Longshot wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

I once had to listen to an idiot droning on about refugees and illegal immigrants claiming benefits and taking jobs. The fact that illegal immigrants can't claim as they are illegal was completely lost on him. It eventually became apparent he was talking about Eastern Europeans being here completely legally and working, he finished by saying he was fed up of it and if it carried on he would move to France.

France?! They have a worse immigration problem than we do.

What's the problem?

I was thinking about it from the point of view of the guy who was leaving the UK because of immigration - I'm assuming he sees it as a problem.

Yeah. I just like to make people articulate what the problems are. Then it's easier to see whether they're worth solving or not.

rolf_f

bradsbeard wrote:

Pross wrote:

bradsbeard wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

bradsbeard wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

bradsbeard wrote:

Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.

You know your probably right.

Any luck finding something to back up that 95% claim?

BBC quote most arriving present as Iranian. I cannot recall where I read the 95% claim but reading gives an indication that most are Iranian.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-49662172

There's a linked article going back to last November about 100 immigrants claiming to be Iranian attempting to cross the Channel. My reading of the article is that they aren't necessarily Iranian but are claiming to be as that allowed them visa free entry into Serbia, where they were far better treated than Iraqis, Afghans, Syrians etc., before travelling on to the UK.

Okay but tell me why not give your real nationality to UK border officials rather than still claim to be Iranian?

Not just BBC article from last year stating but plenty if you Google going back 2 days. Most present as Iranian and Iraqi.

Anyway you can be from Timbuktu still doesn't alter it's a bloody daft way to try and gain entry.

Because they've got all this way having claimed to be Iranian and they are scared that if they don't continue to do so it might work out the worse for them? They probably don't have the support of the Bikeradar forum to help them make the most rational decisions in stressful situations.

tangled_metal

I wad staying with relatives in Athens decades ago when I befriended a Lebanese guy. Bearing in mind it was the time if the Israelis proxy war in Lebanon and not long after they released Terry waite.

He was a very nice guy but completely illegal immigrant since refugee status was removed. He was a hard worker send helped provide for his family (dad was dead iirc). However he was trying not to be noticed and sent back.

He was a conscript into the artillery. Put simply it was flee or fight. The latter would mean death. Still technically he was always at risk if deportation.

I don't think I have a point here other than I met a very nice illegal immigrant who was contributing to the country he fled to. While doing that he provided for his family ( mother and siblings). I only found out later when he generously bought us a coffee it was with his last money and he had to walk home for many hours without the trolley bus fare.

Ok my point is that anti immigration arguments totally forget that it's just people. We're not talking about monsters we need to keep out. It's people like us. Even economic migrants are people like us. Why are they not fit to have the same western life as us? Perhaps people would benefit from a life swap with them.

john80

Ah the irony of the person claiming to be Iranian is that with their new British passport they might well be more at risk of being locked up in Iran for a made up crime when the they go to visit an Iranian relative than if they had just stayed in the country. To be a dual national in Iran must be exciting predicting what tremendous crimes they will pin on you at the trial.

Apologies that Oil tanker moored off Syria definitely did not put any oil ashore. Honest guv. Nation lead by honest geezers that one.

haydenm

The simplest solution is to make Britain worse so they don't want to come here.

Pross

HaydenM wrote:

The simplest solution is to make Britain worse so they don't want to come here.

The Government are doing well with that policy.

hopkinb

john80 wrote:

Apologies that Oil tanker moored off Syria definitely did not put any oil ashore. Honest guv. Nation lead by honest geezers that one.

A bit like this one?

john80

hopkinb wrote:

john80 wrote:

Apologies that Oil tanker moored off Syria definitely did not put any oil ashore. Honest guv. Nation lead by honest geezers that one.

A bit like this one?

I think you guys might a bit more aggrieved if you had to deal with Iran's statements on certain issues when evidence to the contrary is so widely available. We are but amateurs in this game.

kingstongraham

john80 wrote:

Ah the irony of the person claiming to be Iranian is that with their new British passport they might well be more at risk of being locked up in Iran for a made up crime when the they go to visit an Iranian relative than if they had just stayed in the country. To be a dual national in Iran must be exciting predicting what tremendous crimes they will pin on you at the trial.

How many do you know of?

daniel_b

Tangled Metal wrote:

Ok my point is that anti immigration arguments totally forget that it's just people. We're not talking about monsters we need to keep out. It's people like us. Even economic migrants are people like us. Why are they not fit to have the same western life as us? Perhaps people would benefit from a life swap with them.

Well said that man, wise words indeed, not recognised by a large proportion of people.

hopkinb

john80 wrote:

hopkinb wrote:

john80 wrote:

Apologies that Oil tanker moored off Syria definitely did not put any oil ashore. Honest guv. Nation lead by honest geezers that one.

A bit like this one?

I think you guys might a bit more aggrieved if you had to deal with Iran's statements on certain issues when evidence to the contrary is so widely available. We are but amateurs in this game.

Johnson is hardly an amateur in the game of talking shyte, he's been sacked for it a couple of times, and was only loosely acquainted with the truth throughout his leadership of the Brexit campaign, his period as foreign secretary, and his shambolic premiership to date, where he has already been forced to deny lying to the head of state.

Iran's leaders lie. I'm not sure those of us who live in the West have any reason to brag, when the UK's leader lies, & the POTUS has never knowingly told the truth.

slowmart

Tangled Metal wrote:

I wad staying with relatives in Athens decades ago when I befriended a Lebanese guy. Bearing in mind it was the time if the Israelis proxy war in Lebanon and not long after they released Terry waite.

He was a very nice guy but completely illegal immigrant since refugee status was removed. He was a hard worker send helped provide for his family (dad was dead iirc). However he was trying not to be noticed and sent back.

He was a conscript into the artillery. Put simply it was flee or fight. The latter would mean death. Still technically he was always at risk if deportation.

I don't think I have a point here other than I met a very nice illegal immigrant who was contributing to the country he fled to. While doing that he provided for his family ( mother and siblings). I only found out later when he generously bought us a coffee it was with his last money and he had to walk home for many hours without the trolley bus fare.

Ok my point is that anti immigration arguments totally forget that it's just people. We're not talking about monsters we need to keep out. It's people like us. Even economic migrants are people like us. Why are they not fit to have the same western life as us? Perhaps people would benefit from a life swap with them.

This

It’s a certain demographic of the public whose appetite and eagerness to believe the false narratives of certain elements of the press that reinforce prejudices rather than challenging and dismantling these views which oppose common decency and humanity.

Maybe if we replace the refugees with cats or dogs or hamsters the reaction might be more different.

Makes you proud of our nation eh ...

chris_bass

Countries are a confusing thing really, to me at least.

I get to stay here because, through nothing I had anything to do with, I was born here. Had I been born in Iran to Iranian parents my life would likely be inexplicably worse.

If Iranian me wanted to live here he/I wouldn't be allowed to, life really isn't fair at all (I may well be the first person to have noticed this!) when you think about it.

I don't really know how to deal with these refugees but we really need to fix the problem that they are fleeing from - that's an easy one, right? Maybe If they had put all the effort into this that they had squabbling over brexit they might have got somewhere? who knows.

robert88

john80 wrote:

hopkinb wrote:

john80 wrote:

Apologies that Oil tanker moored off Syria definitely did not put any oil ashore. Honest guv. Nation lead by honest geezers that one.

A bit like this one?

I think you guys might a bit more aggrieved if you had to deal with Iran's statements on certain issues when evidence to the contrary is so widely available. We are but amateurs in this game.

Au contraire, mon brave, we are world leaders.

Lagrange

Chris Bass wrote:

Countries are a confusing thing really, to me at least.

I get to stay here because, through nothing I had anything to do with, I was born here. Had I been born in Iran to Iranian parents my life would likely be inexplicably worse.

If Iranian me wanted to live here he/I wouldn't be allowed to, life really isn't fair at all (I may well be the first person to have noticed this!) when you think about it.

I don't really know how to deal with these refugees but we really need to fix the problem that they are fleeing from - that's an easy one, right? Maybe If they had put all the effort into this that they had squabbling over brexit they might have got somewhere? who knows.

What?

robert88

Stevo 666 wrote:

oxoman wrote:

people encouraging them to come over illegally should be prosecuted and jailed and that includes lieing devious politicians and do gooders. Rant over

This place would be even quieter than parliament if you did that

There are plenty other posters besides you Stev0. Life would go on.

Matthewfalle

Robert88 wrote:

john80 wrote:

hopkinb wrote:

john80 wrote:

Apologies that Oil tanker moored off Syria definitely did not put any oil ashore. Honest guv. Nation lead by honest geezers that one.

A bit like this one?

I think you guys might a bit more aggrieved if you had to deal with Iran's statements on certain issues when evidence to the contrary is so widely available. We are but amateurs in this game.

Au contraire, mon brave, we are world leaders.

world leaders in?

hopkinb

Matthewfalle wrote:

Robert88 wrote:

john80 wrote:

hopkinb wrote:

john80 wrote:

Apologies that Oil tanker moored off Syria definitely did not put any oil ashore. Honest guv. Nation lead by honest geezers that one.

A bit like this one?

I think you guys might a bit more aggrieved if you had to deal with Iran's statements on certain issues when evidence to the contrary is so widely available. We are but amateurs in this game.

Au contraire, mon brave, we are world leaders.

world leaders in?

Bullsh1tting.

bradsbeard

Point missed in all this is these people are being exploited by traffickers earning tens of thousands off each boat. These people have total disregard for their welfare. Live or didn't get don't care.

So the UK accepts everyone on each boat regardless on nationality what signal does that send to the traffickers?

Surely a message has to be regardless if you pay thousands to a trafficker you entered illegally your going straight back.

When families start being washed up on the UK I'm sure then everyone would agree action needs to be taken.

veronese68

Daniel B wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

Ok my point is that anti immigration arguments totally forget that it's just people. We're not talking about monsters we need to keep out. It's people like us. Even economic migrants are people like us. Why are they not fit to have the same western life as us? Perhaps people would benefit from a life swap with them.

Well said that man, wise words indeed, not recognised by a large proportion of people.

Very much so.

Presumably if some posting on here had been born in Syria they would stay and do the best they could as to move would be helping fund traffickers and they are bad people. :roll:

verylonglegs

Supporting refugees is a small price to pay for the good fortune of being born in a country with a modern economy, liberal values (for now) and decent healthcare. You, and I, got lucky...very lucky..nothing more. If they really upset you that much then maybe you need to ask yourself a few questions and read a little more.

rjsterry

bradsbeard wrote:

Point missed in all this is these people are being exploited by traffickers earning tens of thousands off each boat. These people have total disregard for their welfare. Live or didn't get don't care.

So the UK accepts everyone on each boat regardless on nationality what signal does that send to the traffickers?

Surely a message has to be regardless if you pay thousands to a trafficker you entered illegally your going straight back.

When families start being washed up on the UK I'm sure then everyone would agree action needs to be taken.

I don't think anyone is suggesting it's all fine, but it might need addressing more widely than changing our rules, both in cooperation with our immediate neighbours and more widely by looking at why people are so desperate to leave their homes in the first place. The last one obviously being an enormous task, but migration is as old as humanity.

chris_bass

verylonglegs wrote:

Supporting refugees is a small price to pay for the good fortune of being born in a country with a modern economy, liberal values (for now) and decent healthcare. You, and I, got lucky...very lucky..nothing more. If they really upset you that much then maybe you need to ask yourself a few questions and read a little more.

That's sort of what I was trying to say - just in a less weird way!!

haydenm

Chris Bass wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Supporting refugees is a small price to pay for the good fortune of being born in a country with a modern economy, liberal values (for now) and decent healthcare. You, and I, got lucky...very lucky..nothing more. If they really upset you that much then maybe you need to ask yourself a few questions and read a little more.

That's sort of what I was trying to say - just in a less weird way!!

It's the other side of the coin from my slightly tongue in cheek comment about making Britain worse so they don't want to come here. There are very sensible discussions to be had about sharing refugees out among like minded countries they which they may have traveled through, and making their home countries less dreadful but letting desperate people die in the sea as a deterrent is unforgivable.

While the issues in their home countries persist I'd take the view that the sooner us or other countries can get them into a system and evaluate their asylum claims the fewer humanitarian issues there will be across Europe.

If you're taking a hard line on this I'd recommend taking another look at that drowned kid in the Med from a few years ago and reconsider these people's motivation.

chris_bass

as an intersting aside - if there was free movement of people across the whole world, how long do you think it would take before all countries became roughly equal? there would be chaos for a very long time but eventually all countries should become pretty similar, in theory at least.

initially there would be a rush of people to the "best" countries - these would then become saturated and people would leave to go to the new "best" countries, until these became saturated and so on until the difference between the best and worst would gradually narrow until all countries became very similar in terms of quality of life. Or maybe it would continue to be chaos until we all killed each other?