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Carbon Climate - activist

slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,476
edited October 2019 in The cake stop
Yes - it's a Greta Thunberg post ...

Never heard? I haven't much - apparently she's a 16yo Swede who is going about doing protests and talks on climate change and the slight urgency we have ...
And, having been invited/secured a speaking slot at the UN for a climate change conference in New York, she's decided to go the least carbon route possible by sailing there ... ok, it happens to be in a fast racing yacht - made largely out of carbon fibre - so they're sailing and emitting as little carbon as possible on the trip...

and she's getting trolled on Twitter - "freak yachting accidents do happen in August" - is that a veiled threat? Or just a warning ... considering she's got 2 experienced yachtsmen onboard, it sounds more like the former...

ok, there may be a little irony in calling a trip "carbon neutral" when you're basically riding on some carbon fibre - it's not being emitted though and it's not a "one time use". Ok, you could argue that if she took an empty seat on a scheduled flight to the US then the carbon emissions would be negligible - arguably as low as those from the sailing yacht if you take cooking into account (I assume they're not electric cooking)

But it is making a point - jumping on and off aircraft has become commonplace and it's hardly a carbon neutral activity ... even if the airlines are "offsetting".

What I find disgusting is the twitter attacks on someone who is so young. She may have put herself forward as a spokesman on climate change - if you want to challenge, then go ahead - but please leave the childish remarks at home.
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 39,462
    slowbike wrote:
    Yes - it's a Greta Thunberg post ...

    Never heard? I haven't much - apparently she's a 16yo Swede who is going about doing protests and talks on climate change and the slight urgency we have ...
    And, having been invited/secured a speaking slot at the UN for a climate change conference in New York, she's decided to go the least carbon route possible by sailing there ... ok, it happens to be in a fast racing yacht - made largely out of carbon fibre - so they're sailing and emitting as little carbon as possible on the trip...

    and she's getting trolled on Twitter - "freak yachting accidents do happen in August" - is that a veiled threat? Or just a warning ... considering she's got 2 experienced yachtsmen onboard, it sounds more like the former...

    ok, there may be a little irony in calling a trip "carbon neutral" when you're basically riding on some carbon fibre - it's not being emitted though and it's not a "one time use". Ok, you could argue that if she took an empty seat on a scheduled flight to the US then the carbon emissions would be negligible - arguably as low as those from the sailing yacht if you take cooking into account (I assume they're not electric cooking)

    But it is making a point - jumping on and off aircraft has become commonplace and it's hardly a carbon neutral activity ... even if the airlines are "offsetting".

    What I find disgusting is the twitter attacks on someone who is so young. She may have put herself forward as a spokesman on climate change - if you want to challenge, then go ahead - but please leave the childish remarks at home.
    Definitely a better travel option than Emma Thompson who flew first class from LA to London to join the Extinction Rebellion climate change protests...
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,552 Lives Here
    I think she's trolling them mate, not the other way around.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,476
    I do like the HIGNFU updated definition of
    "Hardman" - Middle-aged millionaire mocking a 16-year-old girl from the safety of Nigel Farge's summer house
    Although they missed the bit "after she's sailed for two days into the Atlantic where she's unlikely to have much in the way of social media connection .... "

    And yes - her actions have started us thinking about our own carbon emissions ...
  • Stevo 666 wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    Yes - it's a Greta Thunberg post ...

    Never heard? I haven't much - apparently she's a 16yo Swede who is going about doing protests and talks on climate change and the slight urgency we have ...
    And, having been invited/secured a speaking slot at the UN for a climate change conference in New York, she's decided to go the least carbon route possible by sailing there ... ok, it happens to be in a fast racing yacht - made largely out of carbon fibre - so they're sailing and emitting as little carbon as possible on the trip...

    and she's getting trolled on Twitter - "freak yachting accidents do happen in August" - is that a veiled threat? Or just a warning ... considering she's got 2 experienced yachtsmen onboard, it sounds more like the former...

    ok, there may be a little irony in calling a trip "carbon neutral" when you're basically riding on some carbon fibre - it's not being emitted though and it's not a "one time use". Ok, you could argue that if she took an empty seat on a scheduled flight to the US then the carbon emissions would be negligible - arguably as low as those from the sailing yacht if you take cooking into account (I assume they're not electric cooking)

    But it is making a point - jumping on and off aircraft has become commonplace and it's hardly a carbon neutral activity ... even if the airlines are "offsetting".

    What I find disgusting is the twitter attacks on someone who is so young. She may have put herself forward as a spokesman on climate change - if you want to challenge, then go ahead - but please leave the childish remarks at home.
    Definitely a better travel option than Emma Thompson who flew first class from LA to London to join the Extinction Rebellion climate change protests...

    I love that the tabloids had to include that she flew first class, as if this somehow increased her carbon footprint for the flight, rather than it being a sneer at a 'luvvie'
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,476
    I think she's trolling them mate, not the other way around.

    you recon?

    She's been at this for a year now ..

    Our gov has declared a "Climate Emergency" - but what have we actually done? I suppose Brexit will reduce our Carbon footprint as it'll be too expensive to import anything ... ;)

    Local reports of train fairs going up significantly once more ... making it even cheaper to go by car.... and that's forgetting the convenience of your own transport...
  • My view has changed on her and I now agree with the view that she is a child who is being exploited by extremists.

    Seems to be a lot of trying to scare the public by extremists in recent years...
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 39,462
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    Yes - it's a Greta Thunberg post ...

    Never heard? I haven't much - apparently she's a 16yo Swede who is going about doing protests and talks on climate change and the slight urgency we have ...
    And, having been invited/secured a speaking slot at the UN for a climate change conference in New York, she's decided to go the least carbon route possible by sailing there ... ok, it happens to be in a fast racing yacht - made largely out of carbon fibre - so they're sailing and emitting as little carbon as possible on the trip...

    and she's getting trolled on Twitter - "freak yachting accidents do happen in August" - is that a veiled threat? Or just a warning ... considering she's got 2 experienced yachtsmen onboard, it sounds more like the former...

    ok, there may be a little irony in calling a trip "carbon neutral" when you're basically riding on some carbon fibre - it's not being emitted though and it's not a "one time use". Ok, you could argue that if she took an empty seat on a scheduled flight to the US then the carbon emissions would be negligible - arguably as low as those from the sailing yacht if you take cooking into account (I assume they're not electric cooking)

    But it is making a point - jumping on and off aircraft has become commonplace and it's hardly a carbon neutral activity ... even if the airlines are "offsetting".

    What I find disgusting is the twitter attacks on someone who is so young. She may have put herself forward as a spokesman on climate change - if you want to challenge, then go ahead - but please leave the childish remarks at home.
    Definitely a better travel option than Emma Thompson who flew first class from LA to London to join the Extinction Rebellion climate change protests...

    I love that the tabloids had to include that she flew first class, as if this somehow increased her carbon footprint for the flight, rather than it being a sneer at a 'luvvie'
    She could have sailed over...

    Although the amount of space taken up by a first class seat is a fair bit more than an economy seat so less passengers per flight and indirectly more carbon footprint as more flights needed to shift the same number of people. Getting an upgrade is quite nice though :)
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  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,476
    My view has changed on her and I now agree with the view that she is a child who is being exploited by extremists.

    Seems to be a lot of trying to scare the public by extremists in recent years...

    Do you believe we have a major issue with climate change?
    If so, do you believe our governments are doing all they can to resolve it?

    Or are we beyond the point of "can do" and just have to make changes for the effects that will happen in the next few decades?

    Don't know about you, but I intend to have a few more decades yet, and I'd quite like my son to enjoy his (hopefully) many decades ...

    Largest source of Human caused carbon emissions is from burning fossil fuels - yet driving and flying are still cheap and easier than other perhaps more sustainable methods of transport.
    Electric vehicles are ok, but we still rely on polluting methods of generation...
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,476
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    She could have sailed over...
    Would you have offered a lift on your boat? ;)
  • haydenmhaydenm Posts: 2,868
    My view has changed on her and I now agree with the view that she is a child who is being exploited by extremists.

    Seems to be a lot of trying to scare the public by extremists in recent years...

    Extremists because they believe in climate change and think we need to do something urgently about it? Not a dig, just interested to see why you would call them extremists.
  • [
    I love that the tabloids had to include that she flew first class, as if this somehow increased her carbon footprint for the flight, rather than it being a sneer at a 'luvvie'

    It does increase your carbon footprint for the flight. About 9 times as much according to this https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/clim ... rming.html
    and then the next thing you know
  • meursaultmeursault Posts: 1,476
    slowbike wrote:
    My view has changed on her and I now agree with the view that she is a child who is being exploited by extremists.

    Seems to be a lot of trying to scare the public by extremists in recent years...

    Do you believe we have a major issue with climate change?

    Not sure, the jury is still out. The problem for me is getting unbiased objective information or studies.
    slowbike wrote:
    If so, do you believe our governments are doing all they can to resolve it?
    ROFLMAO

    How much change can occur in any single issue campaign, when we are organised by, and subjugated by the mode of production?

    Because imo you always follow the money.
    Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.

    Voltaire
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,552 Lives Here
    slowbike wrote:
    I think she's trolling them mate, not the other way around.

    you recon?

    Look at how hard the prominent climate change deniers have bitten.

    She's managed to generate columns and columns hating on her from all the usual suspects.

    The challenge is not getting average joe to buy in - broadly I think most people would think "ah fair enough" if there was serious stuff done to prevent it.

    The challenge is to get the public and therefore leaders to stop listening to the deniers; and she's very good at making them look pathetic.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 39,462
    slowbike wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    She could have sailed over...
    Would you have offered a lift on your boat? ;)
    I'd gladly give her my kids old inflatable dinghy. Reuse, recycle etc.
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  • haydenmhaydenm Posts: 2,868
    Her point the other day was that it's not for her to come up with solutions, she's a child. The sailing thing is good publicity. I thought it was a good interview.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,476
    slowbike wrote:
    I think she's trolling them mate, not the other way around.

    you recon?

    Look at how hard the prominent climate change deniers have bitten.

    Clearly I don't think in that way - eitherway, she seems to be doing well at it - I just hope she's not taking the personal comments personally ...
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,476
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    She could have sailed over...
    Would you have offered a lift on your boat? ;)
    I'd gladly give her my kids old inflatable dinghy. Reuse, recycle etc.
    Good idea ...


    ... and how do you propose to get it to somewhere she could find it useful?! ;)
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,552 Lives Here
    slowbike wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    I think she's trolling them mate, not the other way around.

    you recon?

    Look at how hard the prominent climate change deniers have bitten.

    Clearly I don't think in that way - eitherway, she seems to be doing well at it - I just hope she's not taking the personal comments personally ...

    TBH if Banks is really hating on you, you know you're probably onto a winner.
  • haydenmhaydenm Posts: 2,868
    meursault wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    My view has changed on her and I now agree with the view that she is a child who is being exploited by extremists.

    Seems to be a lot of trying to scare the public by extremists in recent years...

    Do you believe we have a major issue with climate change?

    Not sure, the jury is still out. The problem for me is getting unbiased objective information or studies.

    https://www.ipcc.ch/

    The jury isn't really out, everyone who is qualified to have a proper scientific opinion in the last 20 years has broadly shared this 16 year old's opinion, and even if you don't believe in it what have you got to lose?

    Scientific consensus:

    https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1 ... 1/4/048002
    https://www.aaas.org/news/aaas-reaffirm ... -integrity
    https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/a ... e-change1/
    http://masgc.org/assets/uploads/publica ... tna_cc.pdf
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,476
    So, next question is really ...
    what are we doing (individually) to help?

    I probably need to do a bit more in the way of reduction in electricity usage - although I have changed many bulbs to low energy or LEDs (as the old ones blow or we replace anyway).
    I don't suppose we help much in having 3 diesel vehicles - however, our mileage is pretty low - and I do try and go by bike where possible (possible being defined by convenience and practicality).
    Bit more conscious in recycling - even if the council don't end up recycling it - not sure what more I could do practically...

    Looked at solar panels, not sure they're economically viable on our roof ...
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 39,462
    slowbike wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    She could have sailed over...
    Would you have offered a lift on your boat? ;)
    I'd gladly give her my kids old inflatable dinghy. Reuse, recycle etc.
    Good idea ...


    ... and how do you propose to get it to somewhere she could find it useful?! ;)
    Good point :) It's the thought that counts...
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  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 9,210
    slowbike wrote:
    Our gov has declared a "Climate Emergency" - but what have we actually done?

    Created the Committee on Climate Change, asked them to report how the UK could be net zero by 2050, and then legislated to do that. It's the reason I don't really understand the whole Extinction Rebellion thing - they seem to be totally unaware of what the government has done.

    On top that, there is discussion over a carbon border tax, but that hasn't happened. Perhaps it could after Brexit.
  • john80john80 Posts: 828
    I am slightly intrigued as when she gets to the USA as a 16 year old is she attending the summit alone and then returning by boat or is she getting some family to fly out to meet her. The point is valid but in reality to tackle climate change the only real method to do this is population control first and then deal with the decline in capitalism as there is less people to fuel the endless growth people want that currently pays for our life model. Whether you fly economy once or twice a year is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. As turkeys don't tend to vote for christmas and humans are in the main selfish then it seems unlikely that climate change can actually be challenged.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,476
    TheBigBean wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    Our gov has declared a "Climate Emergency" - but what have we actually done?

    Created the Committee on Climate Change, asked them to report how the UK could be net zero by 2050, and then legislated to do that. It's the reason I don't really understand the whole Extinction Rebellion thing - they seem to be totally unaware of what the government has done.

    On top that, there is discussion over a carbon border tax, but that hasn't happened. Perhaps it could after Brexit.

    I think the argument is that we need to do something NOW ... leaving it till 2050 is shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted, found a mare, had some foals, pegged it and decayed ...
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    TheBigBean wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    Our gov has declared a "Climate Emergency" - but what have we actually done?

    Created the Committee on Climate Change, asked them to report how the UK could be net zero by 2050, and then legislated to do that. It's the reason I don't really understand the whole Extinction Rebellion thing - they seem to be totally unaware of what the government has done.

    On top that, there is discussion over a carbon border tax, but that hasn't happened. Perhaps it could after Brexit.

    If you look at the various air quality targets that get missed, I think it's reasonable to be doubtful about our ability to meet legislated targets.

    The government could also be entirely less keen on fracking, but that's a whole other argument.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    Hydraulic fracturing is apparently a swear word now?!
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 9,210
    edited August 2019
    slowbike wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    Our gov has declared a "Climate Emergency" - but what have we actually done?

    Created the Committee on Climate Change, asked them to report how the UK could be net zero by 2050, and then legislated to do that. It's the reason I don't really understand the whole Extinction Rebellion thing - they seem to be totally unaware of what the government has done.

    On top that, there is discussion over a carbon border tax, but that hasn't happened. Perhaps it could after Brexit.

    I think the argument is that we need to do something NOW ... leaving it till 2050 is shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted, found a mare, had some foals, pegged it and decayed ...

    It started years ago and ends in 2050. Look at the successes like the deployment of renewables. Something is happening now, but it is not zero yet.

    Plus "do something" is a whole lot less easy than specific things.
  • slowbike wrote:
    My view has changed on her and I now agree with the view that she is a child who is being exploited by extremists.

    Seems to be a lot of trying to scare the public by extremists in recent years...

    Do you believe we have a major issue with climate change?

    Yes I believe humans are contributing to climate change. However, no matter what the west does the problem is going to further worsen while there are billions of people still to achieve 1st world living standards and the benefits that brings.
    slowbike wrote:
    If so, do you believe our governments are doing all they can to resolve it?

    This is where the extremists come in. They attack those who are doing the most to make the changes because we are an easy target. It will be the west the is the solution to the problems yet the extremists think we should go back to living in caves!
    slowbike wrote:
    Or are we beyond the point of "can do" and just have to make changes for the effects that will happen in the next few decades?

    Yep, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

    I don't see much of a "can do" attitude from the youth of the UK looking at the gridlock outside of schools twice a day during term time.
    slowbike wrote:
    Don't know about you, but I intend to have a few more decades yet, and I'd quite like my son to enjoy his (hopefully) many decades ...

    Largest source of Human caused carbon emissions is from burning fossil fuels - yet driving and flying are still cheap and easier than other perhaps more sustainable methods of transport.
    Electric vehicles are ok, but we still rely on polluting methods of generation...

    As I said, for many reasons outside of the West's control it is going to get worse before it gets better. But the West will be the ones leading the solutions to the problems although I doubt you or your son will see the benefit.

    However, the extremists will continue to exploit a 16 year old girl
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  • haydenm wrote:
    My view has changed on her and I now agree with the view that she is a child who is being exploited by extremists.

    Seems to be a lot of trying to scare the public by extremists in recent years...

    Extremists because they believe in climate change and think we need to do something urgently about it? Not a dig, just interested to see why you would call them extremists.

    Extremists as in detached from reality and their hypocrisy. Don't you think it is strange that they don't organise protests in as an example, China or Ethiopia? Why is that?

    Too many people are saying something should be done without making any effort themselves as they expect everyone else to make the sacrifices
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  • laurentianlaurentian Posts: 1,687
    slowbike wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    Our gov has declared a "Climate Emergency" - but what have we actually done?

    Created the Committee on Climate Change, asked them to report how the UK could be net zero by 2050, and then legislated to do that. It's the reason I don't really understand the whole Extinction Rebellion thing - they seem to be totally unaware of what the government has done.

    On top that, there is discussion over a carbon border tax, but that hasn't happened. Perhaps it could after Brexit.

    I think the argument is that we need to do something NOW ... leaving it till 2050 is shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted, found a mare, had some foals, pegged it and decayed ...

    Agreed - action is far too slow.

    A few weeks ago I was watching a lot of TV about the moon landings, in particular the excellent "Chasing The Moon" series on BBC.

    It struck me how, due to what was basically an arms race, the famous Kennedy speech in 1962 at a time when mankind had only just managed to put a man in orbit, this speech culminated in man setting foot on the moon just 7 years later. The seemingly fanciful and impossible was achieved and it's hard to think of a more significant achievement in human history.

    This was achieved by one nation - OK, a very big nation, but one nation nonetheless.

    Given the advancement in human knowledge and technology since then I wonder how long it would take to properly solve the climate issue - particularly if not just one but many nations applied the same determination, resolve and resource to what is the single most important issue that this earth and, as far as we know, all life is facing.

    If just one modern Kennedy stood up and said it would be so.
    Wilier Izoard XP
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