Garmin edge 530 and 830 announced

wongataa

meursault wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

keef66 wrote:

Well his review suggests it will do TBT when following a course uploaded to the device, which sounds promising.

But Garmin claimed that for the Touring which is why I bought it.
Annoyingly it works 100% if it's following a ride I've previously ridden, recorded and saved as a course. But that's only useful if I lend the thing to somebody else so they can ride the same route. If I've ridden it once I can generally remember a route.
Crucially it's no use for actually touring / exploring a new area; I need to create a route ahead of time, send it to the device, then be able to follow it. The issue seems to be some kind of discrepancy between the courses created using OSM in RWGPS, Strava or even Garmin Connect, and what's going on with the Garmin.

I was really wanting to know if they have acknowledged something was wrong / missing / dysfunctional, and fixed it. £250 is a lot to me, and I'd feel like I'd been stitched up twice if I bought one and found it still has issues.

Think I'll wait for a few more hands-on reviews / feedback from the early adopters with deeper pockets than me.

And to see what if anything Wahoo do with their offerings

Did Garmin claim it worked flawlessly with OSM? I doubt it.
Try creating a route with Garmin Connect, upload and ride. Works flawlessly on a 520, with TBT.

In the DC Rainmaker review, he says Garmin map and OSM map are one and the same.

The Edge Touring is old model now and when it came out Garmin might not have been using OSM as the base for their maps. They certainly weren't when the Edge 800 came out. To see if the issues are caused by the maps not lining up properly with the plotted course you would need to put some OSM based maps on the unit and see what happens.

handful

CRAIGO5000 wrote:

Well I’m still using an edge 800 and it’s absolutely flawless. Had it for nearly 10 years I reckon haha. It’s due a refresh since it got a crack in it when a driver drove through me on a roundabout sending me to hospital and the bike to the carbon graveyard in the sky.

I was about a week off buying a bolt but now this has put the cat amongst the pigeons?

I own a kickr and power meters and use Zwift but wonder how much gain I’d get from buying a wahoo head unit.

ClimbPro function looks ace. My only gripe for any headunit it for it to know when I’m riding a climb with a club for instance. It’s not going to know the profile ahead unless I’ve loaded up a route.

It’d be great if climbpro could kick in if I approach a climb that perhaps I just star on Strava for instance?

I could perhaps preselect or batch select all climbs on Strava in my area and then be a master of knowing how to pace them when on a club ride.

I was still using and loving my 800 until very recently despite loads of terrible reviews and comments over the years. Admittedly there was a steep learning curve with it and at first I nearly gave up on it but once mastered it was a fantastic little device. I recently decided to get an 820, again against a wave of "get a Wahoo" advice and again I have been really impressed and for £141 it was a bargain. The knowledge gleaned from around 8 years of 800 use meant setting up was a breeze and I strongly believe a lot of the reported touchscreen problems must have been fixed because mine is fine on low sensitivity.
I knew there must be a new model coming soon and I have no doubt the 530 and 830 will be fab devices and I would have been in the market for one had mine not tempted me with the offer the other week. I have nothing against the Wahoo devices, they appear to be great and much easier to set up than a Garmin but if you have already gone through that painful learning curve then I still think the Garmins take a lot of beating.

meursault

wongataa wrote:

meursault wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

keef66 wrote:

Well his review suggests it will do TBT when following a course uploaded to the device, which sounds promising.

But Garmin claimed that for the Touring which is why I bought it.
Annoyingly it works 100% if it's following a ride I've previously ridden, recorded and saved as a course. But that's only useful if I lend the thing to somebody else so they can ride the same route. If I've ridden it once I can generally remember a route.
Crucially it's no use for actually touring / exploring a new area; I need to create a route ahead of time, send it to the device, then be able to follow it. The issue seems to be some kind of discrepancy between the courses created using OSM in RWGPS, Strava or even Garmin Connect, and what's going on with the Garmin.

I was really wanting to know if they have acknowledged something was wrong / missing / dysfunctional, and fixed it. £250 is a lot to me, and I'd feel like I'd been stitched up twice if I bought one and found it still has issues.

Think I'll wait for a few more hands-on reviews / feedback from the early adopters with deeper pockets than me.

And to see what if anything Wahoo do with their offerings

Did Garmin claim it worked flawlessly with OSM? I doubt it.
Try creating a route with Garmin Connect, upload and ride. Works flawlessly on a 520, with TBT.

In the DC Rainmaker review, he says Garmin map and OSM map are one and the same.

The Edge Touring is old model now and when it came out Garmin might not have been using OSM as the base for their maps. They certainly weren't when the Edge 800 came out. To see if the issues are caused by the maps not lining up properly with the plotted course you would need to put some OSM based maps on the unit and see what happens.

This is his exact quote

April 24, 2019 at 2:20 pm #72
Correct, though if you add Garmin maps you have to pay a boatload for them. The difference between Garmin maps and the 3rd party maps isn’t the maps themselves (they’re identical, both OSM). It’s that Garmin bakes in the heatmap data whereas OSM doesn’t.

pblakeney

I have read posts along similar lines to this quite often, and I find it strange.
I have never personally uploaded any maps to my 520 and yet I always have the maps required for any preloaded route, worldwide.
I use Garmin Connect to create routes and I assume that it loads up the required maps, for free.
Your workflow choice may vary, and it may not work as intended.

CRAIGO5000

I remember putting a U.K. map on my 800 around 10 years ago. I’ve always been able to route to anywhere in the U.K. with ease. All lines up fine too if a little slow to sometimes ‘work out the route’ but it’s probably got the processing power of an ant.

Do Garmin or stores offer trial periods? I’d love to run both a 530 and Bolt for a week side by side to see which is best for me.

StillGoing

handful wrote:

CRAIGO5000 wrote:

Well I’m still using an edge 800 and it’s absolutely flawless. Had it for nearly 10 years I reckon haha. It’s due a refresh since it got a crack in it when a driver drove through me on a roundabout sending me to hospital and the bike to the carbon graveyard in the sky.

I was about a week off buying a bolt but now this has put the cat amongst the pigeons?

I own a kickr and power meters and use Zwift but wonder how much gain I’d get from buying a wahoo head unit.

ClimbPro function looks ace. My only gripe for any headunit it for it to know when I’m riding a climb with a club for instance. It’s not going to know the profile ahead unless I’ve loaded up a route.

It’d be great if climbpro could kick in if I approach a climb that perhaps I just star on Strava for instance?

I could perhaps preselect or batch select all climbs on Strava in my area and then be a master of knowing how to pace them when on a club ride.

I was still using and loving my 800 until very recently despite loads of terrible reviews and comments over the years. Admittedly there was a steep learning curve with it and at first I nearly gave up on it but once mastered it was a fantastic little device. I recently decided to get an 820, again against a wave of "get a Wahoo" advice and again I have been really impressed and for £141 it was a bargain. The knowledge gleaned from around 8 years of 800 use meant setting up was a breeze and I strongly believe a lot of the reported touchscreen problems must have been fixed because mine is fine on low sensitivity.
I knew there must be a new model coming soon and I have no doubt the 530 and 830 will be fab devices and I would have been in the market for one had mine not tempted me with the offer the other week. I have nothing against the Wahoo devices, they appear to be great and much easier to set up than a Garmin but if you have already gone through that painful learning curve then I still think the Garmins take a lot of beating.

Its nothing to do with any perceived "learning curve" and everything to do with Garmin's lack of testing with new devices that soon end up with problems. Hopefully the 530/830 have gotten around this with the revised components.

wongataa

meursault wrote:

wongataa wrote:

meursault wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

keef66 wrote:

Well his review suggests it will do TBT when following a course uploaded to the device, which sounds promising.

But Garmin claimed that for the Touring which is why I bought it.
Annoyingly it works 100% if it's following a ride I've previously ridden, recorded and saved as a course. But that's only useful if I lend the thing to somebody else so they can ride the same route. If I've ridden it once I can generally remember a route.
Crucially it's no use for actually touring / exploring a new area; I need to create a route ahead of time, send it to the device, then be able to follow it. The issue seems to be some kind of discrepancy between the courses created using OSM in RWGPS, Strava or even Garmin Connect, and what's going on with the Garmin.

I was really wanting to know if they have acknowledged something was wrong / missing / dysfunctional, and fixed it. £250 is a lot to me, and I'd feel like I'd been stitched up twice if I bought one and found it still has issues.

Think I'll wait for a few more hands-on reviews / feedback from the early adopters with deeper pockets than me.

And to see what if anything Wahoo do with their offerings

Did Garmin claim it worked flawlessly with OSM? I doubt it.
Try creating a route with Garmin Connect, upload and ride. Works flawlessly on a 520, with TBT.

In the DC Rainmaker review, he says Garmin map and OSM map are one and the same.

The Edge Touring is old model now and when it came out Garmin might not have been using OSM as the base for their maps. They certainly weren't when the Edge 800 came out. To see if the issues are caused by the maps not lining up properly with the plotted course you would need to put some OSM based maps on the unit and see what happens.

This is his exact quote

April 24, 2019 at 2:20 pm #72
Correct, though if you add Garmin maps you have to pay a boatload for them. The difference between Garmin maps and the 3rd party maps isn’t the maps themselves (they’re identical, both OSM). It’s that Garmin bakes in the heatmap data whereas OSM doesn’t.

All the Edge units from the 820 onwards have definitely used OSM based Garmin maps. The Edge Touring is old enough that the maps it came with may well not have been OSM based. Garmin's maps have not always been based on OSM data. DC Rainmaker's comment was to do with current units, not ones years old.

Tiesetrotter

It does look tempting. I have an 800 again nearly ten years old. Has worked fine for the last couple of years. Once you learned how to iron out the crashes, won't connect etc etc. It is fine. The on button finally gave way, but a little new plastic insert and one of those waterproof sheaths and all was back to normal.

I suppose I am paying an aero penalty. But nothing like my big fat head does.

keef66

The Touring is using OSM maps now and has since new. They've updated themselves on 3 occasions, but I have no idea if they agree with the current OSM or if they lag behind.
Interestingly the manual* doesn't mention the turn prompts, or show any screenshots of them. Promotional material and several reviews at launch certainly did though; it was one of the reasons I bought it.
When it works it's brilliant; you ride with a screen showing speed, distance, HR etc, but when you approach a turn it bleeps and switches to a zoomed in view of the map / junction showing where to go. After making the turn the original screen reappears. On a couple of occasions it's managed to do that for an entire 60 mile charity ride. That was a course I created in RWGPS and uploaded to the device a couple of years ago.

But more recently it's been failing more often than not, on routes created / uploaded in the same way, and often after just a handful of miles on country roads without the complications of cycle paths and roundabouts. I've completely lost confidence in its ability to guide me somewhere new.

Think I'm going to try it for a while displaying just the map screen and follow the highlighted route without any prompts. If that works out OK I'll trust it with the routes I've created for my short break around the N Yorks moors.

If not, I'll be reading as many hands-on reviews of the 530 as I can, and looking out for the next generation Elemnts


*TBH, as a user manual it's rubbish. it doesn't actually describe / illustrate navigation at all beyond telling you to press the RIDE button on the screen. It mentions creating routes on the device itself, which in practice is so fiddly and time-consuming it's virtually impossible, but it makes no mention of creating them on a pc, even in Garmin Connect, and importing them. Which you'd think would be a minimum requirement for a device dubbed 'Touring'...

meursault

One of my riding buddies went into LBS to enquire about buying two 530's. They were interested at first until he looked on his tablet, then said that he doesn't think they sell them anymore!

I really like this shop, Contour cycles, Stevenage. The guys are knowledgeable, friendly, honest. All the guys I ride with use them for repairs, service advice.

Seems a shame that we can't give them the business. We will probably go to Halfords as we know someone there that can give us staff discount.

chris_bass

meursault wrote:

One of my riding buddies went into LBS to enquire about buying two 530's. They were interested at first until he looked on his tablet, then said that he doesn't think they sell them anymore!

I really like this shop, Contour cycles, Stevenage. The guys are knowledgeable, friendly, honest. All the guys I ride with use them for repairs, service advice.

Seems a shame that we can't give them the business. We will probably go to Halfords as we know someone there that can give us staff discount.

How can this be the case if they haven't actually gone on sale yet?

keef66

Chris Bass wrote:

meursault wrote:

One of my riding buddies went into LBS to enquire about buying two 530's. They were interested at first until he looked on his tablet, then said that he doesn't think they sell them anymore!

I really like this shop, Contour cycles, Stevenage. The guys are knowledgeable, friendly, honest. All the guys I ride with use them for repairs, service advice.

Seems a shame that we can't give them the business. We will probably go to Halfords as we know someone there that can give us staff discount.

How can this be the case if they haven't actually gone on sale yet?

Loads of places are taking advance orders (and spamming me to tell me they are)

meursault

Chris Bass wrote:

meursault wrote:

One of my riding buddies went into LBS to enquire about buying two 530's. They were interested at first until he looked on his tablet, then said that he doesn't think they sell them anymore!

I really like this shop, Contour cycles, Stevenage. The guys are knowledgeable, friendly, honest. All the guys I ride with use them for repairs, service advice.

Seems a shame that we can't give them the business. We will probably go to Halfords as we know someone there that can give us staff discount.

How can this be the case if they haven't actually gone on sale yet?

I've no idea. Their supplier not supplying them?

meursault

keef66 wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

meursault wrote:

One of my riding buddies went into LBS to enquire about buying two 530's. They were interested at first until he looked on his tablet, then said that he doesn't think they sell them anymore!

I really like this shop, Contour cycles, Stevenage. The guys are knowledgeable, friendly, honest. All the guys I ride with use them for repairs, service advice.

Seems a shame that we can't give them the business. We will probably go to Halfords as we know someone there that can give us staff discount.

How can this be the case if they haven't actually gone on sale yet?

Loads of places are taking advance orders (and spamming me to tell me they are)

Yes, no shortage of alternatives, but I wanted to specifically give them the business.

slowbike

meursault wrote:

keef66 wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

meursault wrote:

One of my riding buddies went into LBS to enquire about buying two 530's. They were interested at first until he looked on his tablet, then said that he doesn't think they sell them anymore!

I really like this shop, Contour cycles, Stevenage. The guys are knowledgeable, friendly, honest. All the guys I ride with use them for repairs, service advice.

Seems a shame that we can't give them the business. We will probably go to Halfords as we know someone there that can give us staff discount.

How can this be the case if they haven't actually gone on sale yet?

Loads of places are taking advance orders (and spamming me to tell me they are)

Yes, no shortage of alternatives, but I wanted to specifically give them the business.

As you can only pre-order at the moment you could wait till they go on general release then buy them ...

meursault

Slowbike wrote:

meursault wrote:

keef66 wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

meursault wrote:

One of my riding buddies went into LBS to enquire about buying two 530's. They were interested at first until he looked on his tablet, then said that he doesn't think they sell them anymore!

I really like this shop, Contour cycles, Stevenage. The guys are knowledgeable, friendly, honest. All the guys I ride with use them for repairs, service advice.

Seems a shame that we can't give them the business. We will probably go to Halfords as we know someone there that can give us staff discount.

How can this be the case if they haven't actually gone on sale yet?

Loads of places are taking advance orders (and spamming me to tell me they are)

Yes, no shortage of alternatives, but I wanted to specifically give them the business.

As you can only pre-order at the moment you could wait till they go on general release then buy them ...

Not sure if I was making myself clear.

If the shop is saying they are not going to sell them, I don't see how waiting until they come out is going to make a difference. It's no big deal, I will buy from somewhere else.

Just surprised there is no hunger for the sale. I don't understand capitalism.

slowbike

I think the chap in the shop probably missed the point - they're not out yet - not that they don't sell them anymore - unless he's not going to sell Garmins any more ... or just can't get them from his supplier ...

meursault

Slowbike wrote:

I think the chap in the shop probably missed the point - they're not out yet - not that they don't sell them anymore - unless he's not going to sell Garmins any more ... or just can't get them from his supplier ...

OIC how I've generated the confusion.

No, sales guy understood they are not out yet, but inferred they will no longer be selling them anyway. It was my mate who went in the shop, so I don't know the reason why.

keef66

I remember chatting to a chap running a bike shop in Loughborough a few years ago (I was waiting for my then student son to materialise). He said they were having to switch to selling the Bryton gadgets because they made too little on Garmins

slowbike

yup - the margin on so many things is so tight these days that some places just aren't listing them ...

keef66

If you use the link at the end of the DCR review and apply his discount code, you get 10% off and he gets something too.

meursault

keef66 wrote:

If you use the link at the end of the DCR review and apply his discount code, you get 10% off and he gets something too.

Thank you, I know someone who works at Halfords though, they get 25% staff discount. Not sure if there is a limit, as we want two.

keef66

meursault wrote:

keef66 wrote:

If you use the link at the end of the DCR review and apply his discount code, you get 10% off and he gets something too.

Thank you, I know someone who works at Halfords though, they get 25% staff discount. Not sure if there is a limit, as we want two.

You've just strengthened my resolve to get a part time job in Halfords if the current company merger / integration opens an attractive exit door for me...

bigmitch41

News of new model Garmins means I got a great deal on a new 820, impressed with it so far!

redvision

The 530 is apparently in stock in some stores today, so if there are any bugs we should hear soon enough.

Anyone tried one yet?

PhilipPirrip

Well, after near 9 years constant use my 800 has started playing up. It looks like a hardware data connection problem so am now having to store rides to the card, extract card and transfer rides via a card reader.

I'm looking at another Garmin but should I go for the 1030 with its bigger screen and which will receive updates for most of what the 530 & 830 will offer or should I hold out for the new devices to be released with their improved performance over the 1030?

keef66

Depends on which features you use. For me it's principally mapping / navigation so the promise of reliable TBT guidance, much faster route calculation and possibly longer battery life is pointing me towards the new units.

If it's mainly recording rides / training then you could pick up a bargain older unit?

PhilipPirrip

You're probably right. These units are overkill for my needs.

Upon reflection I've used navigation around six times a year and if I do lose my way the occassional look on my phone points me back in the right direction.

pblakeney

PhilipPirrip wrote:

You're probably right. These units are overkill for my needs.

Upon reflection I've used navigation around six times a year and if I do lose my way the occassional look on my phone points me back in the right direction.

Beware where you go relying on a phone. I took a wrong turn on the back roads in the outskirts of Oban last week. No road signs, no phone signal and I didn't trust the directions on my 520. Decided to show a little faith in the 520 and it paid off.

slowbike

with something like ViewRanger you can download various maps (some free) to your phone/device for local access - no signal required...
I tend to do this when going away with the bikes as waiting for the maps to download on the fly can take too long - so cache them around where we're going to be... slightly easier with a youngster in tow as we don't stray far - a bit harder if you're doing a fair few miles