New wheels - but no noticeable difference?!?

2

Comments

  • yiannism
    yiannism Posts: 345
    On my infinito i had the fulcrum racing sport (2kg+), and vittoria zaffiro pro slick around 400gr by the way the worse tire ever). Ive changed them after 1500km with GP4000 SII (around 215 gr) and i felt that i was riding a different bike, so much comfort, the bike was noticeable quicker. After some months i upgrade to the fulcrum racing zero, (i shred 500gr) and i felt the same as you. I could see the difference, the handling was improved especially on the descents and a bit on the acceleration, but it wasnt near the difference that i was expecting.

    Still it feels nice to have your dream bike with the correct setup that makes you want to go out for a ride. For the amateurs its not only about the performance, but also about the motivation, and a good upgrade is offering that.
  • tonysj
    tonysj Posts: 391
    YiannisM wrote:
    On my infinito i had the fulcrum racing sport (2kg+), and vittoria zaffiro pro slick around 400gr by the way the worse tire ever). Ive changed them after 1500km with GP4000 SII (around 215 gr) and i felt that i was riding a different bike, so much comfort, the bike was noticeable quicker. After some months i upgrade to the fulcrum racing zero, (i shred 500gr) and i felt the same as you. I could see the difference, the handling was improved especially on the descents and a bit on the acceleration, but it wasnt near the difference that i was expecting.

    Still it feels nice to have your dream bike with the correct setup that makes you want to go out for a ride. For the amateurs its not only about the performance, but also about the motivation, and a good upgrade is offering that.
    There there good call. :D
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    I bought some Zipp 303s a few years ago. First time out I was riding in to a slight cross wind, I found that once got them up to speed it just encouraged me to keeping riding as hard as I could. After 40 miles I turned in to a block head wind and completely blew up, the wheels didn’t seem to help as I crawled home. :oops:
  • hdow
    hdow Posts: 184
    By coincidence I did exactly the same tyre swap as YiannisM. Not only noticeable quicker, measurable quicker. Speed per Watt increased around 5% on average. I accept that routes and weather weren't consistent. Handling was a lot better also
  • hdow
    hdow Posts: 184
    By coincidence I did exactly the same tyre swap as YiannisM. Not only noticeable quicker, measurable quicker. Speed per Watt increased around 5% on average. I accept that routes and weather weren't consistent. Handling was a lot better also
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Has anyone asked the OP what speeds / power we're talking about? I thought improved aerodynamics only translated into measurable benefits for those doing TTs and pushing 20mph+??
  • Yost
    Yost Posts: 56
    Thanks for the replies, a variety of opinions as I would expect. In conclusion it seems that my expectations were a little high regarding performance differences. That said, the wheels are nice (!) and I did need to replace the front wheel anyway. Now need to step up the training for Velo Birmingham in May and Ride London later in the year!
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    How about turning the whole thing on head ?

    Make sure you go faster with new wheels or its £300 wasted (train harder)

    If you are really dissatisfied couldn't you sell them as 'like new' in the classifieds - or console yourself that you have a quality spare set of wheels for emergencies.
  • singleton
    singleton Posts: 2,498
    I bought some new wheels and I was Waaaaayyyyy faster than the old ones.
    They looked faster
    They felt faster
    They sounded faster
    Therefore, they WERE faster.
    Hope That Helps :-)
  • singleton
    singleton Posts: 2,498
    keef66 wrote:
    Has anyone asked the OP what speeds / power we're talking about? I thought improved aerodynamics only translated into measurable benefits for those doing TTs and pushing 20mph+??

    An object that is stationary will not experience any drag force.
    Start moving and a resistive force will occur.
    It gets complex, but simply put - drag is proportional to the square of speed.

    So aero benefits apply at all speeds, but they are very small at low speeds and much more significant at higher speeds.
    There is no specific point where they kick-in.
  • step83
    step83 Posts: 4,170
    If you were going from say deep section aeros to low profiles or other way round I would say you would notice it more, or as Malcolm said a big spoke change, otherwise its going to be hard to tell.

    In terms of improvements I actually found changing from Butyl to Latex tubes gave me the most tangible change, not in speed but feel.

    You may be expecting a huge step up which isn't there, its possible you have had a small improvement that's not met what you were hoping for.
    Try some more routes you know, compare segment times etc your probably a little up anyway, I know when I swap to my summer wheels I beat all my winter times on the flat sections.
    Titanium Px Spitfire
    Easty commuter
    Tripster AT
  • 58585
    58585 Posts: 207
    There is independent testing info out there on wheels which will give you a bit of a reality check, here for example: http://www.hambini.com/blog/post/bicycl ... s-fastest/
    Also for tyres eg:
    https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... ix-tt-2016
    If you try 50mm rims and corsa speed tubeless you will notice a difference in speed.

    If you have a read you'll see that a 30mm rim is not going to offer a difference in aerodynamics vs a 20 mm rim. That said, a good set of shallow alloy clinchers is really a must have so don't feel too bad.
  • cookeeemonster
    cookeeemonster Posts: 1,991
    keef66 wrote:
    Has anyone asked the OP what speeds / power we're talking about? I thought improved aerodynamics only translated into measurable benefits for those doing TTs and pushing 20mph+??

    This. If you only ever pootle about at 15mph and accelerate from standstill gently then no wheels will feel different no matter how much you spend. I'm amazed that a 5-600g difference didn't translate to something that feels more 'zippy' at least, regardless of actual speed.
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    CookeeeMonster wrote:
    keef66 wrote:
    Has anyone asked the OP what speeds / power we're talking about? I thought improved aerodynamics only translated into measurable benefits for those doing TTs and pushing 20mph+??

    This. If you only ever pootle about at 15mph and accelerate from standstill gently then no wheels will feel different no matter how much you spend. I'm amazed that a 5-600g difference didn't translate to something that feels more 'zippy' at least, regardless of actual speed.

    +
    Post a Strava - Before and After.
    We need to decide.
  • RodeBike
    RodeBike Posts: 33
    Imposter wrote:
    Yost wrote:
    I recently purchased some Cero AR30 wheels to replace the stock Mavic CXP22 wheelset which came with my Boardman bike. I've ridden twice with them and so far my speeds are no better than I was managing before with the same power output and in similar weather conditions (gentle breeze). I didn't really 'feel' any difference either on the flat or uphill, reflected in the subsequent results.

    I had read/heard that a new wheelset is the best upgrade to improve performance, and had read good reviews about the Cero AR30, so I was expecting to see some sort of difference.

    Any idea why this isn't happening so far? Was it not enough of an upgrade from my current wheelset? Do I need to give it a bit longer and maybe the weather conditions have not been quite right? There's not really much I can do about it now, but I'd be disappointed if it continues like this, and I have spend over £300 for no real benefit.

    Just in case this is a serious post...

    Generally speaking, you can't buy your way to improved performance. Cycle advertising - like any other form of advertising, is largely based on aspirational bullshit, and most advertising copy is usually only a word or a phrase or two away from falling foul of the ASA guidelines. Not to mention that most of the reviews you read will likely have been the result of post-purchase justification, or confirmation bias from people unwilling to admit they've wasted their money. Welcome to the real world...

    My goodness, what an unpleasant reply. The fella is obviously serious about his question, and was open enough to start a thread about the subject, I'll never understand people's urge to be so patronising/dismissive to others on the internet. I was hoping for better on a cycling forum of all places.
  • Blade180
    Blade180 Posts: 70
    I'm no expert, however I have miche excite wheels which cost me £100 for the pair total weight of wheels being roughly 2.2kg. I look at other wheelsets around your buying price there isn't much difference maximum 200-500g. I know in racing this can make a big difference. But for us best way is to lose weight of ourselves :D. Then you will go faster
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    RodeBike wrote:
    My goodness, what an unpleasant reply. The fella is obviously serious about his question, and was open enough to start a thread about the subject, I'll never understand people's urge to be so patronising/dismissive to others on the internet. I was hoping for better on a cycling forum of all places.

    There's always one... :roll:

    I am dismissive of advertising - not the OP. You were so determined to be offended that you missed the point of my post...
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    RodeBike wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    Yost wrote:
    I recently purchased some Cero AR30 wheels to replace the stock Mavic CXP22 wheelset which came with my Boardman bike. I've ridden twice with them and so far my speeds are no better than I was managing before with the same power output and in similar weather conditions (gentle breeze). I didn't really 'feel' any difference either on the flat or uphill, reflected in the subsequent results.

    I had read/heard that a new wheelset is the best upgrade to improve performance, and had read good reviews about the Cero AR30, so I was expecting to see some sort of difference.

    Any idea why this isn't happening so far? Was it not enough of an upgrade from my current wheelset? Do I need to give it a bit longer and maybe the weather conditions have not been quite right? There's not really much I can do about it now, but I'd be disappointed if it continues like this, and I have spend over £300 for no real benefit.

    Just in case this is a serious post...

    Generally speaking, you can't buy your way to improved performance. Cycle advertising - like any other form of advertising, is largely based on aspirational bullshit, and most advertising copy is usually only a word or a phrase or two away from falling foul of the ASA guidelines. Not to mention that most of the reviews you read will likely have been the result of post-purchase justification, or confirmation bias from people unwilling to admit they've wasted their money. Welcome to the real world...

    My goodness, what an unpleasant reply. The fella is obviously serious about his question, and was open enough to start a thread about the subject, I'll never understand people's urge to be so patronising/dismissive to others on the internet. I was hoping for better on a cycling forum of all places.

    why would this being a cycling forum make any difference?
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • RodeBike
    RodeBike Posts: 33
    Imposter wrote:
    RodeBike wrote:
    My goodness, what an unpleasant reply. The fella is obviously serious about his question, and was open enough to start a thread about the subject, I'll never understand people's urge to be so patronising/dismissive to others on the internet. I was hoping for better on a cycling forum of all places.

    There's always one... :roll:

    I am dismissive of advertising - not the OP. You were so determined to be offended that you missed the point of my post...

    :roll:

    Carry on...
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    RodeBike wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    RodeBike wrote:
    My goodness, what an unpleasant reply. The fella is obviously serious about his question, and was open enough to start a thread about the subject, I'll never understand people's urge to be so patronising/dismissive to others on the internet. I was hoping for better on a cycling forum of all places.

    There's always one... :roll:

    I am dismissive of advertising - not the OP. You were so determined to be offended that you missed the point of my post...

    :roll:

    Carry on...

    Like I needed your permission....
  • joe2008
    joe2008 Posts: 1,531
    What did you expect from 8mm?

    If you want to go faster, get fitter, it's far cheaper.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Aero works at all speeds. The time savings for doing a TT at 15mph are quite real with a set of aero wheels compared to something normal.

    The power saving get bigger as you go faster but small power savings at lower speeds still mean a time saving. Important for a TT or if your running late on an audax on only just make the time cutoff.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    RodeBike wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    RodeBike wrote:
    My goodness, what an unpleasant reply. The fella is obviously serious about his question, and was open enough to start a thread about the subject, I'll never understand people's urge to be so patronising/dismissive to others on the internet. I was hoping for better on a cycling forum of all places.

    There's always one... :roll:

    I am dismissive of advertising - not the OP. You were so determined to be offended that you missed the point of my post...

    :roll:

    Carry on...

    :lol:

    #offended
    #itsonlytheinternet
  • RodeBike
    RodeBike Posts: 33
    Alejandrosdog wrote:

    :lol:

    #offended
    #itsonlytheinternet

    Civility costs nothing, my good man, even if it's 'only the internet' as you put it- I'd even say it's especially important towards people asking questions in a beginners forum on any topic.

    A great mentor of mine once opined that 'they're are no stupid questions, only stupid answer'- and that does indeed seem to hold true here.

    And, yes, it does seem that I've offended a few by trying to encourage them to act with some manners, but I can assure you that I don't mind ruffling a few feathers if the outcome is a little more respect for our fellow travellers.

    Have yourself a fine day, Alejandro.
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    RodeBike wrote:
    Alejandrosdog wrote:

    :lol:

    #offended
    #itsonlytheinternet

    Civility costs nothing, my good man, even if it's 'only the internet' as you put it- I'd even say it's especially important towards people asking questions in a beginners forum on any topic.

    A great mentor of mine once opined that 'they're are no stupid questions, only stupid answer'- and that does indeed seem to hold true here.

    And, yes, it does seem that I've offended a few by trying to encourage them to act with some manners, but I can assure you that I don't mind ruffling a few feathers if the outcome is a little more respect for our fellow travellers.

    Have yourself a fine day, Alejandro.

    Manners maketh man but in the pursuit of civility it's not unheard of for observations to come over with not inconsiderable impudence. I'm sure that since you "dont mind ruffling a few feathers" you will take no offence at my helpful comment, after all, good manners should be directed to all.

    I thank you again for taking the moral high ground not withstanding that your lack of respect for some posters here must have caused you some discomfort. respect for fellow travellers is undoubtedly a worthy aspiration.
  • cattytown
    cattytown Posts: 647
    The biggest difference I saw with my first wheel upgrade was less need for constant spoke adjustment as I was rather larger than I am now.
    Giant Defy 2
    Large bloke getting smaller :-)
  • RodeBike
    RodeBike Posts: 33
    Alejandrosdog wrote:

    Manners maketh man but in the pursuit of civility it's not unheard of for observations to come over with not inconsiderable impudence. I'm sure that since you "dont mind ruffling a few feathers" you will take no offence at my helpful comment, after all, good manners should be directed to all.

    I thank you again for taking the moral high ground not withstanding that your lack of respect for some posters here must have caused you some discomfort. respect for fellow travellers is undoubtedly a worthy aspiration.

    Indeed.

    But, my 'lack of respect for some posters here'? I'm honestly at a loss as to what that means?

    Can you point it out to me specifically?

    Cheers, my man...
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    RodeBike wrote:
    Alejandrosdog wrote:

    :lol:

    #offended
    #itsonlytheinternet

    Civility costs nothing, my good man, even if it's 'only the internet' as you put it- I'd even say it's especially important towards people asking questions in a beginners forum on any topic.

    A great mentor of mine once opined that 'they're are no stupid questions, only stupid answer'- and that does indeed seem to hold true here.

    And, yes, it does seem that I've offended a few by trying to encourage them to act with some manners, but I can assure you that I don't mind ruffling a few feathers if the outcome is a little more respect for our fellow travellers.

    Have yourself a fine day, Alejandro.

    Ironically, it seems to me that the only person 'offended' here, was you. But if you could point out which part of my earlier answer you felt was 'uncivil' I'm sure we would all find that helpful.
  • mugensi
    mugensi Posts: 559
    What make/model tyres have you fitted? I know you said you bought new tyres but that they are the same as the old ones so if they were cheap heavy tyres, fitting them to your new wheels wont make them any better.

    From experience, tyres can make a huge difference in performance, especially if your coming from a heavy wired tyre to a lighter folding tyre.
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    Aero works at all speeds. The time savings for doing a TT at 15mph are quite real with a set of aero wheels compared to something normal.

    The power saving get bigger as you go faster but small power savings at lower speeds still mean a time saving. Important for a TT or if your running late on an audax on only just make the time cutoff.
    I don't think there will be a time saving if you do both TTs at 15mph :D

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