New wheels - but no noticeable difference?!?

Yost

I recently purchased some Cero AR30 wheels to replace the stock Mavic CXP22 wheelset which came with my Boardman bike. I've ridden twice with them and so far my speeds are no better than I was managing before with the same power output and in similar weather conditions (gentle breeze). I didn't really 'feel' any difference either on the flat or uphill, reflected in the subsequent results.

I had read/heard that a new wheelset is the best upgrade to improve performance, and had read good reviews about the Cero AR30, so I was expecting to see some sort of difference.

Any idea why this isn't happening so far? Was it not enough of an upgrade from my current wheelset? Do I need to give it a bit longer and maybe the weather conditions have not been quite right? There's not really much I can do about it now, but I'd be disappointed if it continues like this, and I have spend over £300 for no real benefit.

photonic69

Yost wrote:

.... and I have spend over £300 for no real benefit.

Yup.

drlodge

You should have read more reviews and bought a wheel set that "roll well". :roll:

lettingthedaysgoby

Do they make the bike look nicer?

Matthewfalle

so long as they make a good noise its winner winner chicken dinner.

Yost

Glad I asked!

lesfirth

drlodge wrote:

You should have read more reviews and bought a wheel set that "roll well". :roll:

No. You need wheels that "spin up quick", that's more important than "rolling well".

cougie

I liked my cxp22s.

Welcome to the wonderful world of marketing and bike reviews.

I found that the best improvement comes from a nice new pair of Oakleys.

drlodge

What are the 3 factors that go into wheels - weight, cost, stiffness? Choose any two.

Midlands Grimpeur

I had read/heard that a new wheelset is the best upgrade to improve performance

Truthfully, the best upgrade to improve performance is to get fitter. Like any other industry, bike companies are in the business of selling you stuff and will make all manner of claims around improved performance, faster speeds etc. In reality, even the most efficient equipment in terms of aerodynamics, stiffness etc. will only get you (potentially) a few seconds of time or a few extra watts saved here and there, certainly not enough to be meaningful for an amateur cyclist. Yes, in theory different equipment utilising different materials and different construction methods may 'feel' different to ride, but even that is subjective and has little measurable bearing on performance. IMO it is best to get into the mindset of buying something you like the look of, that is within your budget and that you enjoy using. Thinking that anything other than training/fitness is going to significantly improve your performance is only going to lead to disappointment I'm afraid.

manoirdelourde

Did you also buy new tyres? No? There’s your problem . . .

joey54321

I would say the difference between those two wheelsets would very easily be disguised by fitness/weather changes. Unless you were controlling for all sorts of variables it's entirely plausible you wouldn't feel much of a difference (this doesn't mean there isn't actually a difference though!)

drlodge

manoirdelourde wrote:

Did you also buy new tyres? No? There’s your problem . . .

Tyres can certainly make a bigger difference than wheels.

Alejandrosdog

the bike industry depends on people buying stuff to make them go faster.

think yourself lucky you didnt get the dawning realisation after youd bought a £10,000 specialized venge, complete with go faster disc brakes and go faster wider tyres and go faster tubeless and gofaster bearings . Nice bike and all that but youd need the go faster £300 shoes and the gofaster £200 road skin suit and the helmet and the list gos on.

If you want to get faster, buy a power meter and a subscription to trainer road for £8 a month. That will make the most difference providing you're prepared to put some effort in.

Alejandrosdog

drlodge wrote:

manoirdelourde wrote:

Did you also buy new tyres? No? There’s your problem . . .

Tyres can certainly make a bigger difference than wheels.

yep better tyres and innertubes make the most noticible difference in my experience. they feel nicer too.

Yost

A few more sensible replies now, so thanks! I did try to do my research, looking at several reviews from various sources, so I had to believe that they couldn't all just be marketing spiel or getting paid by the manufacturers to state a positive difference, when there isn't one in reality.

I did buy 'new' tyres, but the same type/brand, and I am still using inner tubes. Maybe running tubeless will have more of an impact.

lettingthedaysgoby

Yost wrote:

A few more sensible replies now, so thanks! I did try to do my research, looking at several reviews from various sources, so I had to believe that they couldn't all just be marketing spiel or getting paid by the manufacturers to state a positive difference, when there isn't one in reality.

I did buy 'new' tyres, but the same type/brand, and I am still using inner tubes. Maybe running tubeless will have more of an impact.

As others have said, all these increases in speed are measured in a few watts here and there. It matters for pros when races are decided in seconds, but for the rest of us? Not so much. Like I said earlier, do they make your bike look nicer? If so, enjoy that - it's a perfectly reasonable thing to spend money on, if you get to the cafe 10 seconds quicker on a 50k ride, bonus.

drlodge

Yost wrote:

I did buy 'new' tyres, but the same type/brand, and I am still using inner tubes. Maybe running tubeless will have more of an impact.

If the rims will take them, you can get a really nice ride with tubeless (like the IRC Roadlites) but can also introduce a whole new set of issues.

whyamihere

Depending on the spokes and hubs, CXP22s can be built into nice wheels. The idea of a new wheelset being the best upgrade for a new bike assumes that the bike comes with some vaguely circular boat anchors. This is often true from some manufacturers, but isn't always... What criteria did you use to determine that you needed new wheels, and how did you apply those criteria to your choice of new wheels?

joe_totale-2

If you were expecting the night and day difference that the marketing suggested then no wonder you're so disappointed.
You'll be a few seconds quicker with the new wheels, especially on the hills but no more than that.

Look at the recent GCN video where they found it pretty tough to tell the difference between 105 and Dura Ace. The difference between decent components and the high end stuff is pretty minimal.

A lot of us including myself enjoy buying shiny bits for our bikes but we understand that they won't really change anything and that the biggest upgrade possible is getting fitter. As stated above getting a turbo, Trainer Road and committing to it is the best way of getting faster.

imposter2.0

Yost wrote:

I recently purchased some Cero AR30 wheels to replace the stock Mavic CXP22 wheelset which came with my Boardman bike. I've ridden twice with them and so far my speeds are no better than I was managing before with the same power output and in similar weather conditions (gentle breeze). I didn't really 'feel' any difference either on the flat or uphill, reflected in the subsequent results.

I had read/heard that a new wheelset is the best upgrade to improve performance, and had read good reviews about the Cero AR30, so I was expecting to see some sort of difference.

Any idea why this isn't happening so far? Was it not enough of an upgrade from my current wheelset? Do I need to give it a bit longer and maybe the weather conditions have not been quite right? There's not really much I can do about it now, but I'd be disappointed if it continues like this, and I have spend over £300 for no real benefit.

Just in case this is a serious post...

Generally speaking, you can't buy your way to improved performance. Cycle advertising - like any other form of advertising, is largely based on aspirational bullshit, and most advertising copy is usually only a word or a phrase or two away from falling foul of the ASA guidelines. Not to mention that most of the reviews you read will likely have been the result of post-purchase justification, or confirmation bias from people unwilling to admit they've wasted their money. Welcome to the real world...

stueys

What's the weight difference on the wheels? You will feel anything over 200 or 300g's of weight, especially when accelerating or climbing (basically lots of mini accelerations). Deeper wheels will give you an aero advantage which is tangible against a classic wheel.

The differences are real but those differences would easily be overpowered by you being a bit fitter, having a good day, a slight head wind, etc, etc. For instance, I've seen an aero helmet is worth 5 watts. I'll take 5 watts as that's probably a solid training block for me to add that to my fitness but 5 watts improvement isn't going to suddenly see me smashing KOM's everywhere (or anywhere...;-) )

Matthewfalle

are you using the same tires? rubbish tires can negate any better supposed lab based wheel gains when you are out on the highway..

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Depending upon what you already have, a nice pair of something like 25 or 28mm GP4000S IIs and latex tubes can make a big difference to how new wheels feel.

tonysj

OP I have a Boardman Team Carbon 2016 the one with the yellow on black-ish frame and Yes I changed my wheels but to the cheaper model of CERO AR24EVO wheels BUT also fitted Schwalbe Pro One and run tubeless.
I have to say that my first impression was WOW as they seemed noticably faster, lighter and my general speed increased, saying that thought I did go from my winter Ali bike to riding the Boardman/Summer bike so should have noticed a difference.
They should be better,lighter etc as I weighed my Mavic CXP 22s/Conti GP4000Sii's and the new CERO/Schwalbe ones so just enjoy your new wheels.
Below is the link to my first impressions of the CERO AR24 EVO Wheels.

viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=13088257

T.

cougie

I love it when I go from my winter bike to the summer one. The difference is fantastic. But it lasts about an hour and then it's just normal.

imposter2.0

NitrousOxide wrote:

Depending upon what you already have, a nice pair of something like 25 or 28mm GP4000S IIs and latex tubes can make a big difference to how new wheels feel.

Or even how any wheels feel - new or old....

cycleclinic

Some high spoke count wheels feel great other feels sluggish. Some low spoke count wheels feel perky other feel about meh.

Trying to explain why is really hard. It has everything to do with how a wheel responds to load. That has everything to do with the radial, lateral/bending and torsional stiffness of the rear wheel in particular. How aero they are helps but it is not a weight thing.

Its obvious to me but it not easily explained. So people buy on weight mostly.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Imposter wrote:

NitrousOxide wrote:

Depending upon what you already have, a nice pair of something like 25 or 28mm GP4000S IIs and latex tubes can make a big difference to how new wheels feel.

Or even how any wheels feel - new or old....

True, but we're justifying the treat of some new wheels here.

Last summer, I swapped out the default Fulcrum Racing77 DB on my Cube, standard butyl tubes and the 28mm Grand Sport Races that had replaced the default 25mm version...

To Hunt Aero Disc Lights, Vittoria latex tubes and 28mm GP4000S IIs.

Night and day difference in feel to ride, plus it just happened to reduce the bike weight by ~500g.

Thinking about buying a 25mm for the front or maybe even a 23mm, due to how these tyres size up big in the real world, so the sidewalls produce a more aerodynamic shape with the wheel rim.

Wayne Plunger

I am surprised nobody has called the OP out for only spending £300 and then subsequently told us about their 3K wheels.

cycleclinic

Also let's not forget some people can't tell the difference between bikes.