Freeman Medical Practitioner Tribunal .Manchester
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Why am I interested, that's what baffles me. Nothing should be a surprise given the history and the propensity to deny all until untenable, then write the obligatory book of woe.1
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The vast majority of all the pros riding prior to 2006 were doping, but very few spoke out, so I don't think this is evidence either way.bobmcstuff said:Any of them sound fairly plausible to me.
Although I'm struggling a little bit to buy into a Sky and GB-wide doping program at the moment just for the same reason as many other conspiracy theories - so many people would need to be involved it seems improbable to me that it would stay quiet. In the ~10 years since someone would surely have spoken out, but this and the jiffy bag thing are all we currently have (which both sound pretty dodgy tbf, but not really on that scale).1 -
If they had been systematically doping at Sky, I would have expected JTL to have said something after they dropped him like a hot brick when his bloods were dodgy.0
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TheBigBean said:
Another option. Sutton persuaded Freemen to order Testogel for some riders. Someone who shouldn't have done opened the box. Freeman ended up on the naughty step. Eventually his career was on the line, so he asked Sutton to 'fess up. Sutton was not interested, so Freeman went with the erectile dysfunction option to get back at Sutton and present a plausible case.
If that was the scenario it would point more to someone with BC than Sky. Otherwise why get it delivered to Manchester? I'd also suggest that a road rider would have be able to source it themselves without going to a team doctor. Josh Edmondson was managing to get legal but regulated drugs quite easily.
Freeman was also privately treating sports people from other sports.Twitter: @RichN950 -
That's an angle I'd be interested in digging further into. Roan would shit the bed if it turned out to be for, say, a high-profile football team in the Manchester area...RichN95. said:Freeman was also privately treating sports people from other sports.
It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.1 -
But it would be easier to hide if it came through someone else's medical.
All that being said, there's currently no proof of that either.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
The Premier League is the sacred cow. NO-ONE will be allowed to slaughter that one.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.1
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My guess it was for doping but yeah it's hard to go further than that. It seems likely there were some discussions within Sky about how far they could push the rules so it's possible that Freeman decided to try out some of the strategies on his private clients that Sky rejected as rule breaking.
Of course it's also equally possible Sky decided they could get away with doping a select number of key riders with testosterone. It's hard to believe the likes of Sutton, Yates, Peter Keen (allegations have been made against him anyway) etc were all squeaky clean in their earlier careers and of course there was that Dutch doctor Sky employed who had a history of involvement in doping so there would have been people around who at least knew that success in cycling wasn't always achieved within the rules.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Lots and lots of it had come out by 2016 though, which is where we are with these allegations now.TheBigBean said:
The vast majority of all the pros riding prior to 2006 were doping, but very few spoke out, so I don't think this is evidence either way.bobmcstuff said:Any of them sound fairly plausible to me.
Although I'm struggling a little bit to buy into a Sky and GB-wide doping program at the moment just for the same reason as many other conspiracy theories - so many people would need to be involved it seems improbable to me that it would stay quiet. In the ~10 years since someone would surely have spoken out, but this and the jiffy bag thing are all we currently have (which both sound pretty dodgy tbf, but not really on that scale).
I don't doubt that individual riders were and probably still are doping to some level - but as I said, the number of people that would be involved in the kind of grand conspiracies some people seem to see here don't really stay quiet for that long.0 -
Fiver on scenario 4 <snip>salsiccia1 said:So what have we got then?
Scenario 1:
Freeman ordered Testogel through BC in error for a BC/Sky program, but all other stuff went through the back door. Wiggins, Gold Factory et al was all built on a sytematic program
Scenario 2:
Freeman ordered Testogel for an individual rider or two, got caught out and shat himself, tried to cover it up
Scenario 3:
Shane Sutton coerced Freeman into ordering it for himself, as per Freeman's GMC defence
Scenario 4 (just a hypothesis of mine):
Freeman ordered the Testogel for someone on the outside, others at BC started shitting bricks seeing this come through the front door hence the cover-up, and then he tried to throw Sutton under the bus as a cover for the GMC hearing
Where's your money?0 -
Doping, in football......no way....salsiccia1 said:
That's an angle I'd be interested in digging further into. Roan would censored the bed if it turned out to be for, say, a high-profile football team in the Manchester area...RichN95. said:Freeman was also privately treating sports people from other sports.
All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."0 -
Seems that football has a far more serious problem than a silly spat over some testosterone.ddraver said:Surely if it was a possibility, Dan Roan would be all over it?
Headline news on the BBC just now, with the damning sexual abuse in football report just released.
They handed over to their sports correspondent for a full report but it seems Dan Roan was unavailable."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Cyclingnews employing the cheap journo tactic of reeling you in with a strap line alluding to explosive revelations from an insider: only to furnish you with zero actual information, other than a banned/sacked rider’s gripes...
I’d call that duplicitous.
For any readers perhaps newer to pro cycling - or less familiar with the scene 10 years ago - this all just keeps the same negative narrative about the sport rumbling along. This will contribute to yet more tedious questions from our non-cycling mad mates because they skim-read a headline from BBC Sport or wherever...0 -
None of my mates care enough about cycling to even do that. 😭🙄PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20231
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That is awful.
What dreary nonsense are they wasting their time with instead?0 -
Football usually (which I follow - just not as much as cycling).PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230
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My mates couldn't care less about cycling until there's a doping story that makes the BBC sport pages and then their opinion is essentially that ALL cyclists are on a doping program, always have been and that performance enhancing drugs are not a problem in any other sport*
(*the one exception is that one friend regularly talks about Rafael Nadal being a drug cheat)0 -
It's not good optics. I am not feeling the sky structured doping program thou . That would be cynical beyond belief"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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nah hes on the episode about the abuse of little boysRichN95. said:carbonclem said:Good to see JTL offering a reasoned impartial take on it
This doesn't happen in other journalism. For example if Newsnight want to talk about the abuse of women they don't invite Rolf Harris on.0 -
david37 said:
nah hes on the episode about the abuse of little boysRichN95. said:carbonclem said:Good to see JTL offering a reasoned impartial take on it
This doesn't happen in other journalism. For example if Newsnight want to talk about the abuse of women they don't invite Rolf Harris on.
Two Little Boys to be precise. There was room on his lap for two.Twitter: @RichN951 -
More seriously, the BBC's attitude towards anything regarding trans people is to book a raging transphobe "for balance", so it does happen elsewhere.
fwiw though my mates have always conceded football is far more likely to have a problem, when they've not been trying to wind me up - it's a lot harder to claim that "it's entirely skill based so drugs don't help" when a tactic like gegenpressing relies entirely on being able to repeatedly run up into someone's grill for ninety minutes.
Cycling's real issue is that the toughness of the sport was a marketing point for a long time, and "it's so hard everyone needs the purest gak just to survive" was more or less an advertising slogan until attitudes changed, at which point the openness became a point of weakness.2 -
Freeman has been struck off the medical register then.0
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Former British Cycling and Team Sky chief doctor Richard Freeman has been permanently struck off the medical register, a tribunal has ruled.
The Medical Practitioners Tribunal found Dr Freeman's fitness to practise impaired on Thursday, and imposed the strongest possible sanction on Friday.
Dr Freeman admitted or was found guilty of 21 of 22 charges relating to the ordering of testosterone to British Cycling headquarters in 2011, as well as poor record-keeping and inappropriate treatment of non-riders.
The central charge, which Dr Freeman denied, was he ordered the Testogel "knowing or believing" it was to be given to a rider for doping purposes.
The rider who was the intended recipient of the substance has not been named.
The tribunal dismissed Dr Freeman's defence and said on Thursday: "In all the circumstances, the tribunal determined that Dr Freeman's actions would be considered as deplorable by members of the public and fellow practitioners.
"The tribunal considered that Dr Freeman's conduct surrounding the order of the Testogel amounted to a long and considered pattern of very serious dishonesty."
https://news.sky.com/story/richard-freeman-former-british-cycling-and-team-sky-doctor-permanently-struck-off-medical-register-122505930 -
To the surprise of absolutely no-one. Inevitable once the GMC ruled.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0
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Whether he was trying to dope a rider or not, his judgement and organisation seem seriously impaired. You wouldn't have confidence in going to him with a potential serious medical issue.
Hopefully he can move on from the whole thing and get some help, his mental state must have been a worry for his family / friends.
Does he get stuck with his QCs bill, or will he have professional insurance that would cover that?0
