LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

Will there be a series of HS2 theme parks along where the line was supposed to be, to make use of all the sites where major works have started? Or will it be like a heritage railway line that goes from nowhere to nowhere, with steam trains making use of the tracks for day trips?

Why not just sell the land?

Or build a motorway

I've no idea how many thousands of tonnes of concrete have already been used and how many bridges built.

A couple of examples.

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/hs2-completes-largest-uk-pour-of-carbon-reducing-concrete-on-euston-station-site-19-10-2022/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colne_Valley_Viaduct

Jezyboy

The good thing about slashing HS2 half way through, is that it will get used to prove both "sides" are correct.

For the pro HS2 side, it's clear that half building the line so that it connects Birmingham with a random stop next to wormwood scrubs is going to be less useful than it should be. So the problem is the cancellation.

For the libertarian, small staters, it's just proof that the government can't do stuff.

briantrumpet

This is ULEZ all over again, and like Sunak's seven imaginary things that he says he'll scrap. Make people fear something that won't affect them in the slightest (or even didn't exist in the first place)...

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1705646428582744144

There's also an interesting Dan Neidle thread on how scrapping IHT could decimate the Alternative Investment Market.

rick_chasey

It’s remarkably expensive in light of the savings they’ve claimed are necessary at the bottom end of the state benefit recipients.

As in multiples more expensive

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

It’s remarkably expensive in light of the savings they’ve claimed are necessary at the bottom end of the state benefit recipients.

As in multiples more expensive

Would it save little Sunaks a shedload of IHT as proposed?

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

It’s remarkably expensive in light of the savings they’ve claimed are necessary at the bottom end of the state benefit recipients.

As in multiples more expensive

Would it save little Sunaks a shedload of IHT as proposed?

Are you suggesting an element of self interest?
Outrageous! 😉

briantrumpet

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

It’s remarkably expensive in light of the savings they’ve claimed are necessary at the bottom end of the state benefit recipients.

As in multiples more expensive

Would it save little Sunaks a shedload of IHT as proposed?

Are you suggesting an element of self interest?
Outrageous! 😉

As I was doing the washing up, having posted this comment, I cynically wondered if this is precisely why Sunak is in politics in the first place, as he sure isn't in it for the salary. Normally doing something for one's children would be something to admire, but I'd venture to suggest that cutting services to the millions of least-well-off members of society to benefit one's own children might be ethically quite tricky to justify (well, if you have a conscience).

I suppose the only thing that cheers me up about the proposal is that it is an easily reversed legacy, well before mini Sunaks would get to benefit from it.

briantrumpet

It would be quite amusing if ministers were bound by law to publicly reveal their personal projected gain from laws the government proposed.

In this case, I'd hope that Labour would make hay if this proposal does become policy: yet another target for them to attack.... though it's not as if they haven't got plenty already.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

Jezyboy said:

tailwindhome said:

The reset of Sunak's premiership seems to mostly be cancelling stuff

Surrey C will be ecstatic.

Delirious with joy

In the unlikely event that the line to Manchester is cancelled and not just delayed, why would you be happy about them having spent all the money but not having anything to show for it? I know you don't keep up with railway news but they have already built the tunnels and viaducts.

I can think of many better ways to spend £100bn

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

How many of you find yourself screaming “IT’S ABOUT CAPACITY” in your head every time you hear anyone talk about this on the news/radio etc

Do we know why they planned to build it to such a high spec and why that has not been compromised to save money

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

Jezyboy said:

tailwindhome said:

The reset of Sunak's premiership seems to mostly be cancelling stuff

Surrey C will be ecstatic.

Delirious with joy

In the unlikely event that the line to Manchester is cancelled and not just delayed, why would you be happy about them having spent all the money but not having anything to show for it? I know you don't keep up with railway news but they have already built the tunnels and viaducts.

I can think of many better ways to spend £100bn

It's already been spent. You don't get the money back from leaving the end off the project.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

How many of you find yourself screaming “IT’S ABOUT CAPACITY” in your head every time you hear anyone talk about this on the news/radio etc

Do we know why they planned to build it to such a high spec and why that has not been compromised to save money

It's all extremely well documented in endless reports if you want to find out. I'm not convinced that you do, though.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

Will there be a series of HS2 theme parks along where the line was supposed to be, to make use of all the sites where major works have started? Or will it be like a heritage railway line that goes from nowhere to nowhere, with steam trains making use of the tracks for day trips?

Why not just sell the land?

Or build a motorway

I've no idea how many thousands of tonnes of concrete have already been used and how many bridges built.

A couple of examples.

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/hs2-completes-largest-uk-pour-of-carbon-reducing-concrete-on-euston-station-site-19-10-2022/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colne_Valley_Viaduct

Oh, the Euston Station bit that they seem to be ruling out (and making a mockery of the whole enterprise in doing so).

I suppose we should be grateful that Johnson didn't get round to pouring any concrete and 'only' wasted £50m on his White Elephant Garden Bridge.

kingstongraham

I think inheritance tax probably is important to the people sunak speaks to.

secretsqirrel

kingstongraham said:

I think inheritance tax probably is important to the people sunak speaks to.

rick_chasey

briantrumpet said:

There's also an interesting Dan Neidle thread on how scrapping IHT could decimate the Alternative Investment Market.

Same reason City types like to buy farms.

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

Will there be a series of HS2 theme parks along where the line was supposed to be, to make use of all the sites where major works have started? Or will it be like a heritage railway line that goes from nowhere to nowhere, with steam trains making use of the tracks for day trips?

Why not just sell the land?

Or build a motorway

I've no idea how many thousands of tonnes of concrete have already been used and how many bridges built.

A couple of examples.

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/hs2-completes-largest-uk-pour-of-carbon-reducing-concrete-on-euston-station-site-19-10-2022/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colne_Valley_Viaduct

Oh, the Euston Station bit that they seem to be ruling out (and making a mockery of the whole enterprise in doing so).

I suppose we should be grateful that Johnson didn't get round to pouring any concrete and 'only' wasted £50m on his White Elephant Garden Bridge.

I can only assume SC has not been anywhere near Euston in the last five years.

briantrumpet

I guess they had some blowback... or just simply haven't clue about, well, anything.

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1705983632815382789

First.Aspect

They are playing pin the tail on the donkey with these policy announcements. Some will be right in the cahunas. Some will be right up the ars3. None will represent any level of coherent thinking.

pblakeney

I suppose policy dictated by popularism is quicker and cheaper than holding referendums. Gawd, it's hard finding positives.

orraloon

D'ye reckon the Tufton Street HiRiskAnus puppetmaster gang(s) are on some set of wagers on each other: betcha I can get him to say... go on then... Meat taxes. 7 bins. Scrap IHT. Stop HS2, or The Boats whichever satisfies a Gammon.

Upcoming 'stop' statements: 5G. Windfarms. LED streetlights. Vaccines....

#toryscum continue to double down on f-ing over the dUK.

rjsterry

Looks like cancelling part of HS2 is off now that one of the big party donors has pointed out how f***ing stupid it is as a policy. Obviously being the Clowncar Party this is all after Shapps has been out defending the stupid idea.

rick_chasey

Sunak would probably have cancelled the Channel Tunnel.

orraloon

rick_chasey said:

Sunak would probably have cancelled the Channel Tunnel.

No, he would have U-turned so the tunnel would have been Folkestone to Dover.

briantrumpet

Haha, Greg Hands arguing nicely for tactical voting to rid us of the Tories. Top work.

https://twitter.com/GregHands/status/1706365649780457669

rjsterry

Imagine denying reality to the extent that you thought the UN was in control of global migration.

rick_chasey

Was reading that apparently a lot of the extra costs that have spiralled for HS2 have come from Tory MPs in the Chilterns who are demanding a lot more tunnels to protect views etc.

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

Was reading that apparently a lot of the extra costs that have spiralled for HS2 have come from Tory MPs in the Chilterns who are demanding a lot more tunnels to protect views etc.

Yes, it's that old favourite the planning system. Chiltern tunnel alone is 10 miles and 65 miles of tunnel between London and West Midlands. So much of the route is in tunnels or deep cuttings that it was seriously considered fitting display screens in place of windows. Trouble is the tunnels are already under construction so no opportunity for savings there.

TheBigBean

Isn't it almost cheaper to tunnel now? Less messing around with land rights.

kingstongraham

An omelette made without leaving any eggs with signs of having been cracked will probably turn out to be more expensive.