LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

rick_chasey

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

So what do you think are the Tory tax bombs?

pangolin

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

So what do you think are the Tory tax bombs?

Freezing income tax thresholds for years

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

So what do you think are the Tory tax bombs?

Freezing income tax thresholds for years

How would that blow up Labour's watch in a few years time? As Rick says above.

pangolin

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

So what do you think are the Tory tax bombs?

Freezing income tax thresholds for years

How would that blow up Labour's watch in a few years time? As Rick says above.

At the moment the tories turn a blind eye to this while pretending to be a low tax party.

You think they will keep quiet about it once labour are in power?

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

So what do you think are the Tory tax bombs?

Freezing income tax thresholds for years

How would that blow up Labour's watch in a few years time? As Rick says above.

At the moment the tories turn a blind eye to this while pretending to be a low tax party.

You think they will keep quiet about it once labour are in power?

Hardly a bomb as they can just shift the thresholds if they want.

Anyhow, would be interested to see what Rick thinks these bombs are.

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

rjsterry said:

Dorset_Boy said:

First.Aspect said:

You don't have to travel that widely to get that sense of the UK. I remember it distinctly 20+ years ago when coming back home from Canada.

We are a grubby littering bunch, to be frank.

The flip side is that my experience is that a lot of other places are comparatively sterile. Seems to me that the British hang on to the old *everywhere*, whereas in the suburbs of places like the Hague or Munich are on the whole covered in newer buildings.

Perhaps it is what we build out of that gives a sense of permanence, I don't know. I get a similar sense in the outskirts of a lot of the east coast US cities I've visited. Architecturally more interesting, but a bit dingy.

Might it to be to do with many European cities having been flattened during WW2 and then rebuilt at a low in architectural style.

Think it's just that FA has more conservative tastes.

You misunderstand. I very much like some modern architecture - just not the Barbican. What I'm referring to are large areas around cities that have been refreshed at some point in living memory, whereas a lot of the UK has developed more organically. So on the one hand I'm embarrassed by how tatty and shambolic the UK feels, there is something to be said for the blend with the old that we have here. As compared to urban landscapes where every structure is less than a century old and where the layout and connectivity has been designed.

I like my analogies. So an analogy is our football or cricket grounds. We tend to build them stand by stand, often around what used to be unexceptional Archibald Leitch terraces that have been listed. They are lopsided with leaky roofs between stands decades apart in age with different pitches and numbers of tiers. Most other places seem to knock old stadiums down and start again, creating objectively more pleasing uniform bowls with better sight lines and more facilities.

Which have the best atmosphere?

Wonder about the boarded up high street situation though. That's supply and demand at play. Not sure if there's a difference in Europe on uptake of online retail. It is generally harder to get around and to the UK shops, because of the crappy public transport?

I think that's just a case of newer development having had less time to be altered. We have plenty of new towns and extensions of existing cities where you can see that in this country. Over time these areas will become less uniform as buildings are replaced and refurbished. Occasionally people try to fake it (e.g. Poundbury).

I think the atmosphere has more to do with activity and people, and that arises from the street layout and how well it is connected to neighbouring areas. If there's a street that most people have to walk through from anywhere to anywhere, then that place will be busy and interesting things will cluster around it.

super_davo

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

So what do you think are the Tory tax bombs?

Freezing income tax thresholds for years

How would that blow up Labour's watch in a few years time? As Rick says above.

At the moment the tories turn a blind eye to this while pretending to be a low tax party.

You think they will keep quiet about it once labour are in power?

Hardly a bomb as they can just shift the thresholds if they want.

Anyhow, would be interested to see what Rick thinks these bombs are.

Labours bomb didn't exactly work, because they then subsequently lost 4 elections.

The major contributory factor was that they disappeared up their own backsides getting steadily less electable. Internal divisions they barely managed to suppress whilst in government were ripped wide open, with moderates that were acceptable to the electorate pushed out in favour of more extreme views that appealed to the party membership.

Do you see any parallels here?

Stevo_666

super_davo said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

So what do you think are the Tory tax bombs?

Freezing income tax thresholds for years

How would that blow up Labour's watch in a few years time? As Rick says above.

At the moment the tories turn a blind eye to this while pretending to be a low tax party.

You think they will keep quiet about it once labour are in power?

Hardly a bomb as they can just shift the thresholds if they want.

Anyhow, would be interested to see what Rick thinks these bombs are.

Labours bomb didn't exactly work, because they then subsequently lost 4 elections.

I never claimed that Labour tax bombs were successful, it more a case of leftie spite.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

So what do you think are the Tory tax bombs?

Freezing income tax thresholds for years

How would that blow up Labour's watch in a few years time? As Rick says above.

At the moment the tories turn a blind eye to this while pretending to be a low tax party.

You think they will keep quiet about it once labour are in power?

Hardly a bomb as they can just shift the thresholds if they want.

Anyhow, would be interested to see what Rick thinks these bombs are.

HS2 stall/ cancellation

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

So what do you think are the Tory tax bombs?

Freezing income tax thresholds for years

How would that blow up Labour's watch in a few years time? As Rick says above.

At the moment the tories turn a blind eye to this while pretending to be a low tax party.

You think they will keep quiet about it once labour are in power?

Hardly a bomb as they can just shift the thresholds if they want.

Anyhow, would be interested to see what Rick thinks these bombs are.

HS2 stall/ cancellation

Whatever happens there will be fairly easy to blame on the Tories. 14 years of fcukups is ample.

rick_chasey

At this point, does anyone know why the Tories want to still be in power?

They’ve got the mother of all majorities and they can’t do sh!t.


What do they want to do with the power if they win the next election?

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

At this point, does anyone know why the Tories want to still be in power?

They’ve got the mother of all majorities and they can’t do sh!t.


What do they want to do with the power if they win the next election?

Another 5 years of lucrative contracts.

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

At this point, does anyone know why the Tories want to still be in power?

The Trolling Party? Maybe they just get off on winding up people they consider lefties.

It'll actually be quite interesting what they put in the King's Speech. I suspect it'll make the Cones Hotline appear like a major constitutional affair.

tailwindhome

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

So what do you think are the Tory tax bombs?

It's not a tax bomb, but they're clearly punting border controls for EU>GB so Labour either implement them or scrap them

surrey_commuter

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

At this point, does anyone know why the Tories want to still be in power?

The Trolling Party? Maybe they just get off on winding up people they consider lefties.

It'll actually be quite interesting what they put in the King's Speech. I suspect it'll make the Cones Hotline appear like a major constitutional affair.

Come on Brian, I fear the echo chambers are distoring your logical thinking capacity.

Is it not far more likely that they know they have a cat in hells chance of winning and that would entail promising to transfer even more money from the south to the north. If that failed and they alienated their core vote they could end up facing an existential crisis.

Which leaves you with Plan B which is to fire up and scare your core voters so they get down to the voting booth.

Look at SteveO (whether real or acting out a DT charicature) who backs the Govt who have levied the largest peace time tax take whilst borrowing unprecedented amounts and yet he purports to be terrified of a Labour Govt.

pblakeney

Support the badge, not the manager or players. 😉

super_davo

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

So what do you think are the Tory tax bombs?

It's not a tax bomb, but they're clearly punting border controls for EU>GB so Labour either implement them or scrap them

I think the noises coming out in the last week or so are that Labour want to be considerably more aligned to the EU in the renegotiation of the TCA in 2025 (alongside other pragmatic stuff like stopping pretending that the EU doesn't exist and resume meetings with them). So fingers crossed we will not need them. Cue "BETRAYING YOUR BREXIT" headlines in all the usual places.

pblakeney

super_davo said:

tailwindhome said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

I wouldn’t call it a bomb as everyone knew it.

So what do you think are the Tory tax bombs?

It's not a tax bomb, but they're clearly punting border controls for EU>GB so Labour either implement them or scrap them

I think the noises coming out in the last week or so are that Labour want to be considerably more aligned to the EU in the renegotiation of the TCA in 2025 (alongside other pragmatic stuff like stopping pretending that the EU doesn't exist and resume meetings with them). So fingers crossed we will not need them. Cue "BETRAYING YOUR BREXIT" headlines in all the usual places.

The simple retort; are we in the EU, yes or no?
Seems to have worked successfully since 2016. 🤣

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

At this point, does anyone know why the Tories want to still be in power?

The Trolling Party? Maybe they just get off on winding up people they consider lefties.

It'll actually be quite interesting what they put in the King's Speech. I suspect it'll make the Cones Hotline appear like a major constitutional affair.

Come on Brian, I fear the echo chambers are distoring your logical thinking capacity.

Is it not far more likely that they know they have a cat in hells chance of winning and that would entail promising to transfer even more money from the south to the north. If that failed and they alienated their core vote they could end up facing an existential crisis.

Which leaves you with Plan B which is to fire up and scare your core voters so they get down to the voting booth.

Look at SteveO (whether real or acting out a DT charicature) who backs the Govt who have levied the largest peace time tax take whilst borrowing unprecedented amounts and yet he purports to be terrified of a Labour Govt.

Lord Ashcroft was tweeting this morning about freeing Britain from the chokehold of the Left. It's like they've got some sort of dissociative condition.

rick_chasey

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

At this point, does anyone know why the Tories want to still be in power?

The Trolling Party? Maybe they just get off on winding up people they consider lefties.

It'll actually be quite interesting what they put in the King's Speech. I suspect it'll make the Cones Hotline appear like a major constitutional affair.

Come on Brian, I fear the echo chambers are distoring your logical thinking capacity.

Is it not far more likely that they know they have a cat in hells chance of winning and that would entail promising to transfer even more money from the south to the north. If that failed and they alienated their core vote they could end up facing an existential crisis.

Which leaves you with Plan B which is to fire up and scare your core voters so they get down to the voting booth.

Look at SteveO (whether real or acting out a DT charicature) who backs the Govt who have levied the largest peace time tax take whilst borrowing unprecedented amounts and yet he purports to be terrified of a Labour Govt.

Lord Ashcroft was tweeting this morning about freeing Britain from the chokehold of the Left. It's like they've got some sort of dissociative condition.

*refers to previous theory about people of a certain age and how the main institutions are no longer natural small c-conservatives and the anxiety that causes*

First.Aspect

He's at it with the ageism again.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

He's at it with the ageism again.

The theory is rather sympathetic to those who feel that, but sure, go ahead.

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

At this point, does anyone know why the Tories want to still be in power?

The Trolling Party? Maybe they just get off on winding up people they consider lefties.

It'll actually be quite interesting what they put in the King's Speech. I suspect it'll make the Cones Hotline appear like a major constitutional affair.

Come on Brian, I fear the echo chambers are distoring your logical thinking capacity.

Is it not far more likely that they know they have a cat in hells chance of winning and that would entail promising to transfer even more money from the south to the north. If that failed and they alienated their core vote they could end up facing an existential crisis.

Which leaves you with Plan B which is to fire up and scare your core voters so they get down to the voting booth.

Look at SteveO (whether real or acting out a DT charicature) who backs the Govt who have levied the largest peace time tax take whilst borrowing unprecedented amounts and yet he purports to be terrified of a Labour Govt.

Lord Ashcroft was tweeting this morning about freeing Britain from the chokehold of the Left. It's like they've got some sort of dissociative condition.

*refers to previous theory about people of a certain age and how the main institutions are no longer natural small c-conservatives and the anxiety that causes*

That's one possible explanation. Another is that they've got stuck in election campaign/opposition mode (after so many changes of leader). This would also explain why they have lost any sense of direction

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

He's at it with the ageism again.

The theory is rather sympathetic to those who feel that, but sure, go ahead.

What, the theory that the poor old souls ca t adjust to change?

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

He's at it with the ageism again.

The theory is rather sympathetic to those who feel that, but sure, go ahead.

What, the theory that the poor old souls ca t adjust to change?

I think if you've spent near 40-50 years of your life where institutions, both public and private who naturally and instinctively align with your small c conservative values, I can very well imagine how disorientating and threatening it can feel when they suddenly feel like they don't.

I think that's entirely understandable.

Not a sneer at old people for being old, but more trying to understand where this perspective is coming from, and not dismissing it as just hysterical rantings of an increasingly delusional part of the right.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

He's at it with the ageism again.

The theory is rather sympathetic to those who feel that, but sure, go ahead.

What, the theory that the poor old souls ca t adjust to change?

I think if you've spent near 40-50 years of your life where institutions, both public and private who naturally and instinctively align with your small c conservative values, I can very well imagine how disorientating and threatening it can feel when they suddenly feel like they don't.

I think that's entirely understandable.

Not a sneer at old people for being old, but more trying to understand where this perspective is coming from, and not dismissing it as just hysterical rantings of an increasingly delusional part of the right.

It's not a delusional rant, it's campaigning. They've started operation fear the left, following the populist play book.

The only fundamental difference from normal campaigning is that one no longer needs to be inconvenienced by facts.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

He's at it with the ageism again.

The theory is rather sympathetic to those who feel that, but sure, go ahead.

What, the theory that the poor old souls ca t adjust to change?

I think if you've spent near 40-50 years of your life where institutions, both public and private who naturally and instinctively align with your small c conservative values, I can very well imagine how disorientating and threatening it can feel when they suddenly feel like they don't.

I think that's entirely understandable.

Not a sneer at old people for being old, but more trying to understand where this perspective is coming from, and not dismissing it as just hysterical rantings of an increasingly delusional part of the right.

It's not a delusional rant, it's campaigning. They've started operation fear the left, following the populist play book.

The only fundamental difference from normal campaigning is that one no longer needs to be inconvenienced by facts.

Sure, but if it's nonsense and no-one thinks that's true, no-one will listen to it.

So it must resonate with some people, and clearly it does as we (or I anyway) hear it repeated a lot. So I spent a bit of time thinking about why it does resonate and that was what I came up with.

I also think that from a certain perspective the general institutions that govern the world we live in are generally left, in the newer old/young, educated/not divide we've (I've) discussed at length on here.

You should see how my MIL bristles when I talk about DEI in passing.

If voting tory/labour is largely an age and education thing, and all the polling suggests it is, then the fact that the vast majority of tory voters are retired and labour voters are not has an impact, when all institutions are, by definition, run by "non-retired" people.

Of course that then makes those on the right/retired feel that those institutions are at odds with their own political viewpoint.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

...
I think if you've spent near 40-50 years of your life where institutions, both public and private who naturally and instinctively align with your small c conservative values,
...

You have a different opinion on what's happened politically over that time period if you think that's the case. Coming from someone who has voted tory during that period and is within your target age group.

rick_chasey

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

...
I think if you've spent near 40-50 years of your life where institutions, both public and private who naturally and instinctively align with your small c conservative values,
...

You have a different opinion on what's happened politically over that time period if you think that's the case. Coming from someone who has voted tory during that period and is within your target age group.

Apologies, I don’t understand the argument/counter here.