LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

surrey_commuter

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstongraham said:

It's actually "would you supermarkets mind awfully having one product each that is quite cheap please? If not, no problem. "

Irony of all of this is of course that thatcher was deeply proud of supermarkets as a symbol of the success of free trade and globalisation, offering middle class food at affordable prices.

Supermarkets are one of the most competitive markets there are and margins are razor thin.

Look at how successful Lidl and Aldi have been over the last 10 years and how prevalent price wars have been.

They have been successful because they undercut the big 3.
In 2009 when Tesco were at their peak (30.7% of the market), their profits were a whopping 44p in every £ spent in their stores.
Their margins are not small https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/april/tesco-accused-of-rampant-profiteering-as-obscene-profits-published/ . We owe them nothing.

Its sales rose 5.3% to 57.6 billion pounds in its 2022/23 financial year ....

Honestly!!! You are just going to make yourself angry reading (and believing this sh1t). A moments thought or two moments Google would tell you that this is a steaming pile of cr@p.

44% margin 😂😂😂

pinno

surrey_commuter said:

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstongraham said:

It's actually "would you supermarkets mind awfully having one product each that is quite cheap please? If not, no problem. "

Irony of all of this is of course that thatcher was deeply proud of supermarkets as a symbol of the success of free trade and globalisation, offering middle class food at affordable prices.

Supermarkets are one of the most competitive markets there are and margins are razor thin.

Look at how successful Lidl and Aldi have been over the last 10 years and how prevalent price wars have been.

They have been successful because they undercut the big 3.
In 2009 when Tesco were at their peak (30.7% of the market), their profits were a whopping 44p in every £ spent in their stores.
Their margins are not small https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/april/tesco-accused-of-rampant-profiteering-as-obscene-profits-published/ . We owe them nothing.

Its sales rose 5.3% to 57.6 billion pounds in its 2022/23 financial year ....

Honestly!!! You are just going to make yourself angry reading (and believing this censored ). A moments thought or two moments Google would tell you that this is a steaming pile of cr@p.

44% margin 😂😂😂

In their peak (2009).
Not now.

pinno

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/apr/21/tesco-record-profits-supermarket

Pross

They had global sales of £59.4 billion in 2009. Their profit was 5.4 percent before tax and underlying profit was 10%. Healthy but not really excessive, they screwed down their suppliers but the customers saw the bulk of that cost cutting. Food really did start to become ridiculously cheap and now that it can’t be held artificially low we are starting to really notice it. Prices have shot up but I suspect are still low if you look at indexed linked historic prices.

I did a lot of work for Tesco in that massive expansion of the early 2000s. It was quite demanding with their build programmes constantly getting cut, a huge focus on ‘value engineering’ and massive pressure to hit opening dates. However, they paid their consultants well albeit sometimes took their time. They were probably what stopped the company I worked for going bust in the GFC although after a while realised they were in a strong position when renegotiating their consultant frameworks.

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstongraham said:

It's actually "would you supermarkets mind awfully having one product each that is quite cheap please? If not, no problem. "

Irony of all of this is of course that thatcher was deeply proud of supermarkets as a symbol of the success of free trade and globalisation, offering middle class food at affordable prices.

Supermarkets are one of the most competitive markets there are and margins are razor thin.

Look at how successful Lidl and Aldi have been over the last 10 years and how prevalent price wars have been.

They have been successful because they undercut the big 3.
In 2009 when Tesco were at their peak (30.7% of the market), their profits were a whopping 44p in every £ spent in their stores.
Their margins are not small https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/april/tesco-accused-of-rampant-profiteering-as-obscene-profits-published/ . We owe them nothing.

Its sales rose 5.3% to 57.6 billion pounds in its 2022/23 financial year ....

Honestly!!! You are just going to make yourself angry reading (and believing this censored ). A moments thought or two moments Google would tell you that this is a steaming pile of cr@p.

44% margin 😂😂😂

As mentioned above, pure leftiebollox.

rick_chasey

pinno said:

surrey_commuter said:

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstongraham said:

It's actually "would you supermarkets mind awfully having one product each that is quite cheap please? If not, no problem. "

Irony of all of this is of course that thatcher was deeply proud of supermarkets as a symbol of the success of free trade and globalisation, offering middle class food at affordable prices.

Supermarkets are one of the most competitive markets there are and margins are razor thin.

Look at how successful Lidl and Aldi have been over the last 10 years and how prevalent price wars have been.

They have been successful because they undercut the big 3.
In 2009 when Tesco were at their peak (30.7% of the market), their profits were a whopping 44p in every £ spent in their stores.
Their margins are not small https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/april/tesco-accused-of-rampant-profiteering-as-obscene-profits-published/ . We owe them nothing.

Its sales rose 5.3% to 57.6 billion pounds in its 2022/23 financial year ....

Honestly!!! You are just going to make yourself angry reading (and believing this censored ). A moments thought or two moments Google would tell you that this is a steaming pile of cr@p.

44% margin 😂😂😂

In their peak (2009).
Not now.

This is utter bollocks.

rick_chasey

Failing your ACA aside, where do you shop then?

pinno

rick_chasey said:

pinno said:

surrey_commuter said:

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstongraham said:

It's actually "would you supermarkets mind awfully having one product each that is quite cheap please? If not, no problem. "

Irony of all of this is of course that thatcher was deeply proud of supermarkets as a symbol of the success of free trade and globalisation, offering middle class food at affordable prices.

Supermarkets are one of the most competitive markets there are and margins are razor thin.

Look at how successful Lidl and Aldi have been over the last 10 years and how prevalent price wars have been.

They have been successful because they undercut the big 3.
In 2009 when Tesco were at their peak (30.7% of the market), their profits were a whopping 44p in every £ spent in their stores.
Their margins are not small https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/april/tesco-accused-of-rampant-profiteering-as-obscene-profits-published/ . We owe them nothing.

Its sales rose 5.3% to 57.6 billion pounds in its 2022/23 financial year ....

Honestly!!! You are just going to make yourself angry reading (and believing this censored ). A moments thought or two moments Google would tell you that this is a steaming pile of cr@p.

44% margin 😂😂😂

In their peak (2009).
Not now.

This is utter bollocks.

Well, my stats are nit as bad as Chelsea FC 'cos they're shyte.

Stevo_666

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

pinno said:

surrey_commuter said:

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstongraham said:

It's actually "would you supermarkets mind awfully having one product each that is quite cheap please? If not, no problem. "

Irony of all of this is of course that thatcher was deeply proud of supermarkets as a symbol of the success of free trade and globalisation, offering middle class food at affordable prices.

Supermarkets are one of the most competitive markets there are and margins are razor thin.

Look at how successful Lidl and Aldi have been over the last 10 years and how prevalent price wars have been.

They have been successful because they undercut the big 3.
In 2009 when Tesco were at their peak (30.7% of the market), their profits were a whopping 44p in every £ spent in their stores.
Their margins are not small https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/april/tesco-accused-of-rampant-profiteering-as-obscene-profits-published/ . We owe them nothing.

Its sales rose 5.3% to 57.6 billion pounds in its 2022/23 financial year ....

Honestly!!! You are just going to make yourself angry reading (and believing this censored ). A moments thought or two moments Google would tell you that this is a steaming pile of cr@p.

44% margin 😂😂😂

In their peak (2009).
Not now.

This is utter bollocks.

Well, my stats are nit as bad as Chelsea FC 'cos they're shyte.

You're a bit like Arsenal in this debate - runner up

rick_chasey

Where do you do your shopping if it’s not a big supermarket?

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Where do you do your shopping if it’s not a big supermarket?

My parents use various organic delivery companies as well as growing a decent amount themselves so the amount required from supermarkets is minimal.

rick_chasey

Minimal? Exactly.

I don’t know anyone who doesn’t do a material portion of their shopping at supermarkets and anyone who doesn’t do the vast majority there is paying much more for their food as a result.

You won’t find better value food.

Stevo_666

I have a feeling that food prices would be higher if it was not for the likes of Tesco with their buying power and economies of scale etc. My OH uses a couple of those organic delivery companies and looking at what comes up on my credit card statement it's hard to believe that they're not blatantly profiteering.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

I have a feeling that food prices would be higher if it was not for the likes of Tesco with their buying power and economies of scale etc. My OH uses a couple of those organic delivery companies and looking at what comes up on my credit card statement it's hard to believe that they're not blatantly profiteering.

Sainos is a public company. The numbers are all there. You won’t find many essential industries with such narrow margins.

Farmers bellyache because their prices get driven down but the consumers benefit from the bargaining power to drive down prices.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

I have a feeling that food prices would be higher if it was not for the likes of Tesco with their buying power and economies of scale etc. My OH uses a couple of those organic delivery companies and looking at what comes up on my credit card statement it's hard to believe that they're not blatantly profiteering.

Sainos is a public company. The numbers are all there. You won’t find many essential industries with such narrow margins.

Farmers bellyache because their prices get driven down but the consumers benefit from the bargaining power to drive down prices.

I was talking about the organic delivery companies blatantly profiteering. I'm agreeing with you on this one!

rick_chasey

Haha. For sure. Nor is their business model that scalable.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Haha. For sure. Nor is their business model that scalable.

It's a niche. Luckily the Mrs. mainly uses them for veg and we still get most of our stuff from Tesco with Waitrose as a top up for the bits that Tesco doesn't do.

Jezyboy

The rise of Aldi/lidl suggest that the traditional supermarkets weren't operating as efficiently as possible, but that doesn't necessarily mean profiteering.

Stevo_666

Jezyboy said:

The rise of Aldi/lidl suggest that the traditional supermarkets weren't operating as efficiently as possible, but that doesn't necessarily mean profiteering.

I'm no expert but it appears to be a mix of much lower choice of product (quick Google says 1,500 to 2,000 product lines vs 30k - 40k for the big supermarkets), more own label, less spent on decor & display, more limited opening hours and they seem to get away with less staff in store.

Agree, it does not mean the traditional supermarkets are profiteering. Its down to a different business model IMO.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Minimal? Exactly.

I don’t know anyone who doesn’t do a material portion of their shopping at supermarkets and anyone who doesn’t do the vast majority there is paying much more for their food as a result.

You won’t find better value food.

They definitely pay more. The things they do buy from supermarkets are available from other places, but they're not trying to avoid them.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Minimal? Exactly.

I don’t know anyone who doesn’t do a material portion of their shopping at supermarkets and anyone who doesn’t do the vast majority there is paying much more for their food as a result.

You won’t find better value food.

They definitely pay more. The things they do buy from supermarkets are available from other places, but they're not trying to avoid them.

Jezyboy

rick_chasey said:

Minimal? Exactly.

I don’t know anyone who doesn’t do a material portion of their shopping at supermarkets and anyone who doesn’t do the vast majority there is paying much more for their food as a result.

You won’t find better value food.

Local greengrocers and non fancy butchers could possibly get you to a similar financial outlay (particularly compared to Sainsbos), but with a greater time commitment...and obviously not an option in many towns that have neither greengrocers nor butchers.

sungod

this is about how the dominant supermarket and suppliers affect the market in the usa, many of the same conglomerates supply uk

probably similar affects here, though not as extreme so far

it's a 'gift' link, no paywall...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/29/opinion/inflation-groceries-pricing-walmart.html?unlocked_article_code=vTlp2uFAwIMb-BVpI2bDXSRCKXK-jNJZHMt7xrpW0vm0ECf3ujloc-CMaPlrU4zwvdDdXOdpYkXvLMo1XkEj32u8yIMiz8CdGd3FTnWBJNd93hkRwL1dJaQn_3NlSsCFXrmzEfYR2yqbE4xlXPdaNjNshOlym9oVKOA0V_hDiFfDU4E6Db0yLE2NMxbtYvFiK86Xv6QZRYNzkuVbxkZsOXa2hlvx4HQm3ovZq7xMNoZqVCqFoeJFDZtqm0EAPFbpGXUX1wx6WvKweQwmt6ynmRxR2U5LNTsbU82cOq-5Q6NLVCkW1NA7TVg-Q14eWE_YOCjTYCSPGCoW90V9GCy1efEtXieXkdAvBWA7_qI&smid=url-share

shirley_basso

surrey_commuter said:

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstongraham said:

It's actually "would you supermarkets mind awfully having one product each that is quite cheap please? If not, no problem. "

Irony of all of this is of course that thatcher was deeply proud of supermarkets as a symbol of the success of free trade and globalisation, offering middle class food at affordable prices.

Supermarkets are one of the most competitive markets there are and margins are razor thin.

Look at how successful Lidl and Aldi have been over the last 10 years and how prevalent price wars have been.

They have been successful because they undercut the big 3.
In 2009 when Tesco were at their peak (30.7% of the market), their profits were a whopping 44p in every £ spent in their stores.
Their margins are not small https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/april/tesco-accused-of-rampant-profiteering-as-obscene-profits-published/ . We owe them nothing.

Its sales rose 5.3% to 57.6 billion pounds in its 2022/23 financial year ....

Honestly!!! You are just going to make yourself angry reading (and believing this censored ). A moments thought or two moments Google would tell you that this is a steaming pile of cr@p.

44% margin 😂😂😂

44% market share (of profits). Not 44% margin.

I think the actual stats were like £1 in £7

Supermarket retail is the most competitive space out there where, as RC says, UK consumers benefit from the grocers holding one over their suppliers. It's very common that the big supermarkets create supplier dependency then push prices down as there's always another supplier ready to displace them on the shelves.

I'm sure it was on here I read that the UK, despite inflation only spends c17% income on groceries Vs 25% in continental Europe despite buying effectively the same stuff. European farmers (fruit and veg) send the crap stuff to the UK and the good sh!t to European shelves as the UK customer won't pay up.

That said, UK customers pay disproportionately for rent, so it's swings and roundabouts.

briantrumpet

shirley_basso said:

surrey_commuter said:

pinno said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstongraham said:

It's actually "would you supermarkets mind awfully having one product each that is quite cheap please? If not, no problem. "

Irony of all of this is of course that thatcher was deeply proud of supermarkets as a symbol of the success of free trade and globalisation, offering middle class food at affordable prices.

Supermarkets are one of the most competitive markets there are and margins are razor thin.

Look at how successful Lidl and Aldi have been over the last 10 years and how prevalent price wars have been.

They have been successful because they undercut the big 3.
In 2009 when Tesco were at their peak (30.7% of the market), their profits were a whopping 44p in every £ spent in their stores.
Their margins are not small https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/april/tesco-accused-of-rampant-profiteering-as-obscene-profits-published/ . We owe them nothing.

Its sales rose 5.3% to 57.6 billion pounds in its 2022/23 financial year ....

Honestly!!! You are just going to make yourself angry reading (and believing this censored ). A moments thought or two moments Google would tell you that this is a steaming pile of cr@p.

44% margin 😂😂😂

44% market share (of profits). Not 44% margin.

I think the actual stats were like £1 in £7

Supermarket retail is the most competitive space out there where, as RC says, UK consumers benefit from the grocers holding one over their suppliers. It's very common that the big supermarkets create supplier dependency then push prices down as there's always another supplier ready to displace them on the shelves.

I'm sure it was on here I read that the UK, despite inflation only spends c17% income on groceries Vs 25% in continental Europe despite buying effectively the same stuff. European farmers (fruit and veg) send the censored stuff to the UK and the good sh!t to European shelves as the UK customer won't pay up.

That said, UK customers pay disproportionately for rent, so it's swings and roundabouts.

Obviously now with less choice of where they can easily source cheaper alternatives post Brexit.

I think I've mentioned it before, but I was stunned when a Sainsbury's buyer explicitly said in a radio interview that they were aiming to put the bottom third of farming out of business to make the sector more efficient overall. It might be one reason why there's not too much love lost.

rick_chasey

Farming and farmers certainly need some better PR because they don’t do themselves many favours to elicit much sympathy

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

I have a feeling that food prices would be higher if it was not for the likes of Tesco with their buying power and economies of scale etc. My OH uses a couple of those organic delivery companies and looking at what comes up on my credit card statement it's hard to believe that they're not blatantly profiteering.

Sainos is a public company. The numbers are all there. You won’t find many essential industries with such narrow margins.

Farmers bellyache because their prices get driven down but the consumers benefit from the bargaining power to drive down prices.

I was talking about the organic delivery companies blatantly profiteering. I'm agreeing with you on this one!

The organic stuff is more expensive because there's more wastage > higher prices for the stuff that is up to scratch. Oddly enough fertilizer and pest control do result in more of the crop being suitable for consumption.

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

Farming and farmers certainly need some better PR because they don’t do themselves many favours to elicit much sympathy

The trouble if that the most vocal ones aren't necessarily either very representative of the average farmer, not the type to elicit much sympathy. The fact that they have time to talk to the media at length suggests that they aren't used to shovelling shít.

FWIW, the son of the farmer I know best has gone for a work placement at a very big 'efficient' sort of dairy farm of the sort that supermarkets probably would like, but that the general public would be horrified by if they knew how the cows and employees are being treated in the name of efficiency.

Jezyboy

rick_chasey said:

Farming and farmers certainly need some better PR because they don’t do themselves many favours to elicit much sympathy

Or people need to learn to separate style and substance a bit more.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

I have a feeling that food prices would be higher if it was not for the likes of Tesco with their buying power and economies of scale etc. My OH uses a couple of those organic delivery companies and looking at what comes up on my credit card statement it's hard to believe that they're not blatantly profiteering.

Sainos is a public company. The numbers are all there. You won’t find many essential industries with such narrow margins.

Farmers bellyache because their prices get driven down but the consumers benefit from the bargaining power to drive down prices.

I was talking about the organic delivery companies blatantly profiteering. I'm agreeing with you on this one!

The organic stuff is more expensive because there's more wastage > higher prices for the stuff that is up to scratch. Oddly enough fertilizer and pest control do result in more of the crop being suitable for consumption.

True, also I am guessing their distribution costs are higher. Although the cynic in me thinks they also charge an extra premium for the fact that it has that organic label.