LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

Unless they don't say "Vote Lib Dem" on the leaflet, then it's not like that.

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

That might be weak and pathetic, but

1) Not being Tory is obviously a vote-winner

and

2) They aren't pretending to be not-Tory, unlike the actual Tories.

3) It's honest

shirley_basso

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

Let me get this straight - is Stevo calling another political party stupid liars because I'm pretty sure the Tories have set a new bar for stupidity and misinformation

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

That might be weak and pathetic, but

1) Not being Tory is obviously a vote-winner

and

2) They aren't pretending to be not-Tory, unlike the actual Tories.

3) It's honest

It didn't quite sway me...although there is no pretending around here. Just hoping the Labour candidate comes round so I can quiz him on their tax policy

And to be fair to one local Tory councillor, when I emailed him about some pot holes in and around the village, within a day he had been out, taken pics and sent them off to Kent County Council to ask why they had not done these when they had recently been round to fix some others.

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

That might be weak and pathetic, but

1) Not being Tory is obviously a vote-winner

and

2) They aren't pretending to be not-Tory, unlike the actual Tories.

3) It's honest

It didn't quite sway me...although there is no pretending around here. Just hoping the Labour candidate comes round so I can quiz him on their tax policy

And to be fair to one local Tory counsellor, when I emailed him about some pot holes in and around the village, within a day he had been out, taken pics and sent them off to Kent County Council to ask why they had not done these when they had recently been round to fix some others.

Good to see they're seeking professional help - he must be a busy bloke!

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

🤣

Did you come up with that yourself?

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

That might be weak and pathetic, but

1) Not being Tory is obviously a vote-winner

and

2) They aren't pretending to be not-Tory, unlike the actual Tories.

3) It's honest

It didn't quite sway me...although there is no pretending around here. Just hoping the Labour candidate comes round so I can quiz him on their tax policy

And to be fair to one local Tory counsellor, when I emailed him about some pot holes in and around the village, within a day he had been out, taken pics and sent them off to Kent County Council to ask why they had not done these when they had recently been round to fix some others.

Local councillor in looking busy just before local elections shock!

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

🤣

Did you come up with that yourself?

It's very Trumpy.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

🤣

Did you come up with that yourself?

Nah, it was the Fib Dums' idea

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

That might be weak and pathetic, but

1) Not being Tory is obviously a vote-winner

and

2) They aren't pretending to be not-Tory, unlike the actual Tories.

3) It's honest

It didn't quite sway me...although there is no pretending around here. Just hoping the Labour candidate comes round so I can quiz him on their tax policy

And to be fair to one local Tory counsellor, when I emailed him about some pot holes in and around the village, within a day he had been out, taken pics and sent them off to Kent County Council to ask why they had not done these when they had recently been round to fix some others.

Good to see they're seeking professional help - he must be a busy bloke!

Well spotted. Centre leftie smartarse gold star for Pross

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

That might be weak and pathetic, but

1) Not being Tory is obviously a vote-winner

and

2) They aren't pretending to be not-Tory, unlike the actual Tories.

3) It's honest

It didn't quite sway me...although there is no pretending around here. Just hoping the Labour candidate comes round so I can quiz him on their tax policy

And to be fair to one local Tory counsellor, when I emailed him about some pot holes in and around the village, within a day he had been out, taken pics and sent them off to Kent County Council to ask why they had not done these when they had recently been round to fix some others.

Good to see they're seeking professional help - he must be a busy bloke!

Well spotted. Centre leftie smartarse gold star for Pross

I identify as centre right really so there’s no political Party for me to vote for at present.

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

That might be weak and pathetic, but

1) Not being Tory is obviously a vote-winner

and

2) They aren't pretending to be not-Tory, unlike the actual Tories.

3) It's honest

It didn't quite sway me...although there is no pretending around here. Just hoping the Labour candidate comes round so I can quiz him on their tax policy

And to be fair to one local Tory counsellor, when I emailed him about some pot holes in and around the village, within a day he had been out, taken pics and sent them off to Kent County Council to ask why they had not done these when they had recently been round to fix some others.

Good to see they're seeking professional help - he must be a busy bloke!

Well spotted. Centre leftie smartarse gold star for Pross

I identify as centre right really so there’s no political Party for me to vote for at present.

The smartarse thing was started by the centre lefties so it's named after them...

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

That might be weak and pathetic, but

1) Not being Tory is obviously a vote-winner

and

2) They aren't pretending to be not-Tory, unlike the actual Tories.

3) It's honest

It didn't quite sway me...although there is no pretending around here. Just hoping the Labour candidate comes round so I can quiz him on their tax policy

And to be fair to one local Tory counsellor, when I emailed him about some pot holes in and around the village, within a day he had been out, taken pics and sent them off to Kent County Council to ask why they had not done these when they had recently been round to fix some others.

Good to see they're seeking professional help - he must be a busy bloke!

Well spotted. Centre leftie smartarse gold star for Pross

I identify as centre right really so there’s no political Party for me to vote for at present.

The smartarse thing was started by the centre lefties so it's named after them...

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

🤣

Did you come up with that yourself?

Nah, it was the Fib Dums' idea

But you're so proud of your little word play that you used it twice!

Wait, do you think I'm some sort of Lib Dem loyalist?

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

rjsterry said:

More on the party that has screwed its image so much it has to pretend to be another party.

It's a bit like the Fib Dums round here, whose electoral selling point was that 'at least we're not Labour, who haven't got a chance so please please give us a try'.

🤣

Did you come up with that yourself?

Nah, it was the Fib Dums' idea

But you're so proud of your little word play that you used it twice!

Wait, do you think I'm some sort of Lib Dem loyalist?

Don't know. Which party have you voted for most?

rjsterry

Different question. I'm pro-European, what with having family either side of the Channel and there was only one party on my ballot paper that fitted that description. Now there's nobody representing me, much like Pross and several others. It's a f***ing desert out there. The Lib Dems have totally given up as a parliamentary party. The Tories have thrown out almost anyone with a brain and only know how to be culture w***ers. After their tax rises, piling on more regulations and reducing access to the best staff, they just need to be got rid of. "Party of business" - what a joke. Labour's only selling point is that they're marginally less of a dysfunctional mess than everyone else, but I'm f***ed if I'm voting for 'Johnson spending and taxation without the lies and weekly crises'.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

Different question. I'm pro-European, what with having family either side of the Channel and there was only one party on my ballot paper that fitted that description. Now there's nobody representing me, much like Pross and several others. It's a f***ing desert out there. The Lib Dems have totally given up as a parliamentary party. The Tories have thrown out almost anyone with a brain and only know how to be culture w***ers. After their tax rises, piling on more regulations and reducing access to the best staff, they just need to be got rid of. "Party of business" - what a joke. Labour's only selling point is that they're marginally less of a dysfunctional mess than everyone else, but I'm f***ed if I'm voting for 'Johnson spending and taxation without the lies and weekly crises'.

I think you're overthinking this.

Step 1: get rid of this shambles with whoever can beat them.

Step 2: something will crop up. It has a good chance of being more than 0.08% better, if it's not this bunch of incompetent charlatans.

rjsterry

That's rather what got us into this mess.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

That's rather what got us into this mess.

No, what got us into this mess was a party that hooked itself onto the Brexit agenda, whose central dishonesty required a debasement of honest debating of ideas. As we've seen in the US, once you sign up to that dishonesty, all principles evaporate, and down might as well be up. Gravity is so passé.

For all its many faults, I think Cameron's government wasn't completely off the rails. Brexit is what caused the Tory Party to lose all principles.

rick_chasey

rjsterry said:

Different question. I'm pro-European, what with having family either side of the Channel and there was only one party on my ballot paper that fitted that description. Now there's nobody representing me, much like Pross and several others. It's a f***ing desert out there. The Lib Dems have totally given up as a parliamentary party. The Tories have thrown out almost anyone with a brain and only know how to be culture w***ers. After their tax rises, piling on more regulations and reducing access to the best staff, they just need to be got rid of. "Party of business" - what a joke. Labour's only selling point is that they're marginally less of a dysfunctional mess than everyone else, but I'm f***ed if I'm voting for 'Johnson spending and taxation without the lies and weekly crises'.

Same same

rick_chasey

Poorest country in Northern Europe now

Jezyboy

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

That's rather what got us into this mess.

No, what got us into this mess was a party that hooked itself onto the Brexit agenda, whose central dishonesty required a debasement of honest debating of ideas. As we've seen in the US, once you sign up to that dishonesty, all principles evaporate, and down might as well be up. Gravity is so passé.

For all its many faults, I think Cameron's government wasn't completely off the rails. Brexit is what caused the Tory Party to lose all principles.

I think it's difficult to let Cameron get off too lightly. Austerity and a slow recovery from 2008 meant that the Brexiters arguments landed well.

wallace_and_gromit

Jezyboy said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

That's rather what got us into this mess.

No, what got us into this mess was a party that hooked itself onto the Brexit agenda, whose central dishonesty required a debasement of honest debating of ideas. As we've seen in the US, once you sign up to that dishonesty, all principles evaporate, and down might as well be up. Gravity is so passé.

For all its many faults, I think Cameron's government wasn't completely off the rails. Brexit is what caused the Tory Party to lose all principles.

I think it's difficult to let Cameron get off too lightly. Austerity and a slow recovery from 2008 meant that the Brexiters arguments landed well.

A slow recovery from 2008 was pretty much guaranteed given the damage incurred by the banking sector, which became very reluctant to lend to SMEs as a result. The Eurozone recovery was even slower I think, albeit for different reasons. (Banking sector less damaged collectively, but decision-making was slow and involved a lot of fudging due to committee-like processes.)

Jezyboy

Yea, for what it's worth, it feels slightly unfair to lay the blame for the slow recovery at Cameron's door, otoh, that's what comes up with the territory of being PM.

briantrumpet

Jezyboy said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

That's rather what got us into this mess.

No, what got us into this mess was a party that hooked itself onto the Brexit agenda, whose central dishonesty required a debasement of honest debating of ideas. As we've seen in the US, once you sign up to that dishonesty, all principles evaporate, and down might as well be up. Gravity is so passé.

For all its many faults, I think Cameron's government wasn't completely off the rails. Brexit is what caused the Tory Party to lose all principles.

I think it's difficult to let Cameron get off too lightly. Austerity and a slow recovery from 2008 meant that the Brexiters arguments landed well.

But I think most of their decisions, even if you disagreed with them, and with the benefit of hindsight, were mostly within the vaguely normal boundaries of functioning politics and generally what Tory governments do. My argument (and not just mine) is that the mental contortions and mendaciousness necessary to make the Brexit prospectus appear logical meant that those who proposed it lost their pragmatic/logical compass entirely, and with that the links to the tradition of Tory values. And Johnson's narcissistic mendaciousness was the purest embodiment of that break with the past.

Unlike the Republicans and Trump (which is truly culty and entirely detached from truth and reality), I think there is still a chance that the Tory Party can find its way back, but it needs to be defeated heavily in the next election and to spend some time in the wilderness, reflecting on how they've lost their way. If Labour wins heavily, it will need a decent opposition to test their policies, and to hold them to account.

wallace_and_gromit

Jezyboy said:

Yea, for what it's worth, it feels slightly unfair to lay the blame for the slow recovery at Cameron's door, otoh, that's what comes up with the territory of being PM.

Indeed. No politician ever says "The previous government should take credit for that" so what goes around comes around!

rick_chasey

wallace_and_gromit said:

Jezyboy said:

Yea, for what it's worth, it feels slightly unfair to lay the blame for the slow recovery at Cameron's door, otoh, that's what comes up with the territory of being PM.

Indeed. No politician ever says "The previous government should take credit for that" so what goes around comes around!

Austerity has been proven to be the wrong policy and Cameron did it harder than any other north European country

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Different question. I'm pro-European, what with having family either side of the Channel and there was only one party on my ballot paper that fitted that description. Now there's nobody representing me, much like Pross and several others. It's a f***ing desert out there. The Lib Dems have totally given up as a parliamentary party. The Tories have thrown out almost anyone with a brain and only know how to be culture w***ers. After their tax rises, piling on more regulations and reducing access to the best staff, they just need to be got rid of. "Party of business" - what a joke. Labour's only selling point is that they're marginally less of a dysfunctional mess than everyone else, but I'm f***ed if I'm voting for 'Johnson spending and taxation without the lies and weekly crises'.

This is good, if we have lots of disenfranchised centre lefties who won't be voting

Pross

rick_chasey said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

Jezyboy said:

Yea, for what it's worth, it feels slightly unfair to lay the blame for the slow recovery at Cameron's door, otoh, that's what comes up with the territory of being PM.

Indeed. No politician ever says "The previous government should take credit for that" so what goes around comes around!

Austerity has been proven to be the wrong policy and Cameron did it harder than any other north European country

Has it been proven? It might not have worked but there’s no way of knowing how successful any other policy would have been. He pretty much had to go down that route to keep lenders happy and maintain a good credit rating.

The main problem was that having done the hard work then won a GE majority in which he could have started to develop policies in a stronger financial climate he panicked under pressure from UKIP and his own right-wingers resulting in a major case of shooting himself in the foot and the majority of the shit that has happened since is a consequence of that.

rjsterry

Oh, there's zero chance of me not voting.