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  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,345
    kingstongraham said:

    If there's only 200 spaces in Rwanda, any individual small boat arrival would have to get pretty unlucky to end up there.


    "Ah, but the deterrent effect!"

    On the same basis, maybe they could bring in a randomised death penalty for all criminal offences. You'd not have to kill *that* many people, but the very remote prospect of being hanged would obviously stop people committing crimes.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    briantrumpet said:

    kingstongraham said:

    If there's only 200 spaces in Rwanda, any individual small boat arrival would have to get pretty unlucky to end up there.


    "Ah, but the deterrent effect!"

    On the same basis, maybe they could bring in a randomised death penalty for all criminal offences. You'd not have to kill *that* many people, but the very remote prospect of being hanged would obviously stop people committing crimes.
    I like that policy. You could maybe have a monthly lottery of the prison population. The ideal situation though would be some kind of public vote system with the proceeds going towards prison funding.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    wallace_and_gromit said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Government ministers now pedaling the line, "These measures will result in the biggest drop of immigration we have ever seen."

    From what I've read, which makes sound sense, net immigration will fall sharply in the next year or so without anyone doing anything as there won't be the same number of visas granted re Ukraine and Hong Kong, and graduating overseas students will start returning home. There haven't been many graduating overseas students in the last two years as there wasn't the corresponding intake during the Covid years.
    There is an argument that bring dependents makes you a lot less likely to leave.

    My own hunch is that there is a lot of pent up demand and they are exploiting the change in the rules.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    wallace_and_gromit said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Government ministers now pedaling the line, "These measures will result in the biggest drop of immigration we have ever seen."

    From what I've read, which makes sound sense, net immigration will fall sharply in the next year or so without anyone doing anything as there won't be the same number of visas granted re Ukraine and Hong Kong, and graduating overseas students will start returning home. There haven't been many graduating overseas students in the last two years as there wasn't the corresponding intake during the Covid years.
    It wouldn't be like Sunak to take credit for something that's happening that is out of his control.
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,616
    surrey_commuter said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Government ministers now pedaling the line, "These measures will result in the biggest drop of immigration we have ever seen."

    From what I've read, which makes sound sense, net immigration will fall sharply in the next year or so without anyone doing anything as there won't be the same number of visas granted re Ukraine and Hong Kong, and graduating overseas students will start returning home. There haven't been many graduating overseas students in the last two years as there wasn't the corresponding intake during the Covid years.
    There is an argument that bring dependents makes you a lot less likely to leave.

    My own hunch is that there is a lot of pent up demand and they are exploiting the change in the rules.
    I don't doubt the system is being gamed somewhere, but my offspring encounter a lot of overseas students (Durham and Manchester respectively) and the students concerned are typically normal student age with no dependents.

    In general though, switching from a ready supply of EU types (relatively local; easy to flit to and fro to see family) for a ready supply of Africans and Asians (distant; likely to want to relocate with family) is not great from a keeping immigration numbers down and a grant visas to economically active types viewpoint.
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,616
    First.Aspect said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Government ministers now pedaling the line, "These measures will result in the biggest drop of immigration we have ever seen."

    From what I've read, which makes sound sense, net immigration will fall sharply in the next year or so without anyone doing anything as there won't be the same number of visas granted re Ukraine and Hong Kong, and graduating overseas students will start returning home. There haven't been many graduating overseas students in the last two years as there wasn't the corresponding intake during the Covid years.
    It wouldn't be like Sunak to take credit for something that's happening that is out of his control.
    True. Unlike with inflation though, only his so-called supporters, along with himself, are beating him up over immigration numbers. The majority of the rest of us can see that the legal migration is due to either students (lots of fees and self-funded living expenses), humanitarian grounds (HK and Ukraine) or people coming here to do essential jobs (health, social care etc).
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    wallace_and_gromit said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Government ministers now pedaling the line, "These measures will result in the biggest drop of immigration we have ever seen."

    From what I've read, which makes sound sense, net immigration will fall sharply in the next year or so without anyone doing anything as there won't be the same number of visas granted re Ukraine and Hong Kong, and graduating overseas students will start returning home. There haven't been many graduating overseas students in the last two years as there wasn't the corresponding intake during the Covid years.
    There is an argument that bring dependents makes you a lot less likely to leave.

    My own hunch is that there is a lot of pent up demand and they are exploiting the change in the rules.
    I don't doubt the system is being gamed somewhere, but my offspring encounter a lot of overseas students (Durham and Manchester respectively) and the students concerned are typically normal student age with no dependents.

    In general though, switching from a ready supply of EU types (relatively local; easy to flit to and fro to see family) for a ready supply of Africans and Asians (distant; likely to want to relocate with family) is not great from a keeping immigration numbers down and a grant visas to economically active types viewpoint.
    The likes of Manchester and Durham are not the problem, the definition of "student" is very broad.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    I was going to say it's hard to imagine a bigger waste of money but then I remembered... the Rwanda plan...
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,616
    edited December 2023
    surrey_commuter said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Government ministers now pedaling the line, "These measures will result in the biggest drop of immigration we have ever seen."

    From what I've read, which makes sound sense, net immigration will fall sharply in the next year or so without anyone doing anything as there won't be the same number of visas granted re Ukraine and Hong Kong, and graduating overseas students will start returning home. There haven't been many graduating overseas students in the last two years as there wasn't the corresponding intake during the Covid years.
    There is an argument that bring dependents makes you a lot less likely to leave.

    My own hunch is that there is a lot of pent up demand and they are exploiting the change in the rules.
    I don't doubt the system is being gamed somewhere, but my offspring encounter a lot of overseas students (Durham and Manchester respectively) and the students concerned are typically normal student age with no dependents.

    In general though, switching from a ready supply of EU types (relatively local; easy to flit to and fro to see family) for a ready supply of Africans and Asians (distant; likely to want to relocate with family) is not great from a keeping immigration numbers down and a grant visas to economically active types viewpoint.
    The likes of Manchester and Durham are not the problem, the definition of "student" is very broad.
    Fair point. Should have thought of that as even for home grown folk, the definition of "student" and "university" can be quite broad.

    But I'm still confident the net migration will fall without any government action, as a significant proportion of students will go home.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    wallace_and_gromit said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Government ministers now pedaling the line, "These measures will result in the biggest drop of immigration we have ever seen."

    From what I've read, which makes sound sense, net immigration will fall sharply in the next year or so without anyone doing anything as there won't be the same number of visas granted re Ukraine and Hong Kong, and graduating overseas students will start returning home. There haven't been many graduating overseas students in the last two years as there wasn't the corresponding intake during the Covid years.
    There is an argument that bring dependents makes you a lot less likely to leave.

    My own hunch is that there is a lot of pent up demand and they are exploiting the change in the rules.
    I don't doubt the system is being gamed somewhere, but my offspring encounter a lot of overseas students (Durham and Manchester respectively) and the students concerned are typically normal student age with no dependents.

    In general though, switching from a ready supply of EU types (relatively local; easy to flit to and fro to see family) for a ready supply of Africans and Asians (distant; likely to want to relocate with family) is not great from a keeping immigration numbers down and a grant visas to economically active types viewpoint.
    The likes of Manchester and Durham are not the problem, the definition of "student" is very broad.
    Fair point. Should have thought of that as even for home grown folk, the definition of "student" and "university" can be quite broad.

    But I'm still confident the net migration will fall without any government action, as a significant proportion of students will go home.
    No, apparently they all try to stay illegally so the only option is to keep the foreign basterds out. Didn't you know?
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,616
    First.Aspect said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Government ministers now pedaling the line, "These measures will result in the biggest drop of immigration we have ever seen."

    From what I've read, which makes sound sense, net immigration will fall sharply in the next year or so without anyone doing anything as there won't be the same number of visas granted re Ukraine and Hong Kong, and graduating overseas students will start returning home. There haven't been many graduating overseas students in the last two years as there wasn't the corresponding intake during the Covid years.
    There is an argument that bring dependents makes you a lot less likely to leave.

    My own hunch is that there is a lot of pent up demand and they are exploiting the change in the rules.
    I don't doubt the system is being gamed somewhere, but my offspring encounter a lot of overseas students (Durham and Manchester respectively) and the students concerned are typically normal student age with no dependents.

    In general though, switching from a ready supply of EU types (relatively local; easy to flit to and fro to see family) for a ready supply of Africans and Asians (distant; likely to want to relocate with family) is not great from a keeping immigration numbers down and a grant visas to economically active types viewpoint.
    The likes of Manchester and Durham are not the problem, the definition of "student" is very broad.
    Fair point. Should have thought of that as even for home grown folk, the definition of "student" and "university" can be quite broad.

    But I'm still confident the net migration will fall without any government action, as a significant proportion of students will go home.
    No, apparently they all try to stay illegally so the only option is to keep the foreign basterds out. Didn't you know?
    I think my eldest would concur in respect of her Turkish housemate who didn't do her washing up! (Neither did the Brits of course. Or my eldest. But rhetoric beats facts these days!)

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    wallace_and_gromit said:

    First.Aspect said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Government ministers now pedaling the line, "These measures will result in the biggest drop of immigration we have ever seen."

    From what I've read, which makes sound sense, net immigration will fall sharply in the next year or so without anyone doing anything as there won't be the same number of visas granted re Ukraine and Hong Kong, and graduating overseas students will start returning home. There haven't been many graduating overseas students in the last two years as there wasn't the corresponding intake during the Covid years.
    There is an argument that bring dependents makes you a lot less likely to leave.

    My own hunch is that there is a lot of pent up demand and they are exploiting the change in the rules.
    I don't doubt the system is being gamed somewhere, but my offspring encounter a lot of overseas students (Durham and Manchester respectively) and the students concerned are typically normal student age with no dependents.

    In general though, switching from a ready supply of EU types (relatively local; easy to flit to and fro to see family) for a ready supply of Africans and Asians (distant; likely to want to relocate with family) is not great from a keeping immigration numbers down and a grant visas to economically active types viewpoint.
    The likes of Manchester and Durham are not the problem, the definition of "student" is very broad.
    Fair point. Should have thought of that as even for home grown folk, the definition of "student" and "university" can be quite broad.

    But I'm still confident the net migration will fall without any government action, as a significant proportion of students will go home.
    No, apparently they all try to stay illegally so the only option is to keep the foreign basterds out. Didn't you know?
    I think my eldest would concur in respect of her Turkish housemate who didn't do her washing up! (Neither did the Brits of course. Or my eldest. But rhetoric beats facts these days!)

    Please find me a student who does washing up (before they need the plate again). I'd love to meet them and tell them to relax more.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I married one
    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,345
    edited December 2023
    Do you think that if they'd put £2bn (roughly Rwanda + the Bibby Stockholm so far) into the system for processing asylum claims it might have made slightly more difference that the max 1000 migrants who will be caught up in these headline-grabbing schemes?
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,325
    briantrumpet said:

    Do you think that if they'd put £2bn (roughly Rwanda + the Libby Stockholm so far) into the system for processing asylum claims it might have made slightly more difference that the max 1000 migrants who will be caught up in these headline-grabbing schemes?

    This is the madness of the situation.
    Spend all your resources on fixing broken solutions rather than the problem.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    wallace_and_gromit said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    wallace_and_gromit said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Government ministers now pedaling the line, "These measures will result in the biggest drop of immigration we have ever seen."

    From what I've read, which makes sound sense, net immigration will fall sharply in the next year or so without anyone doing anything as there won't be the same number of visas granted re Ukraine and Hong Kong, and graduating overseas students will start returning home. There haven't been many graduating overseas students in the last two years as there wasn't the corresponding intake during the Covid years.
    There is an argument that bring dependents makes you a lot less likely to leave.

    My own hunch is that there is a lot of pent up demand and they are exploiting the change in the rules.
    I don't doubt the system is being gamed somewhere, but my offspring encounter a lot of overseas students (Durham and Manchester respectively) and the students concerned are typically normal student age with no dependents.

    In general though, switching from a ready supply of EU types (relatively local; easy to flit to and fro to see family) for a ready supply of Africans and Asians (distant; likely to want to relocate with family) is not great from a keeping immigration numbers down and a grant visas to economically active types viewpoint.
    The likes of Manchester and Durham are not the problem, the definition of "student" is very broad.
    Fair point. Should have thought of that as even for home grown folk, the definition of "student" and "university" can be quite broad.

    But I'm still confident the net migration will fall without any government action, as a significant proportion of students will go home.
    One terms tuition fees at a dodgy language school is a cheap route in.

    I think it will drop as it is probably pent up demand piling through the newly opened door.

    Each time the clowns change the criteria there will be a new surge.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,345
    pblakeney said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Do you think that if they'd put £2bn (roughly Rwanda + the Libby Stockholm so far) into the system for processing asylum claims it might have made slightly more difference that the max 1000 migrants who will be caught up in these headline-grabbing schemes?

    This is the madness of the situation.
    Spend all your resources on fixing broken solutions rather than the problem.

    One almost suspects that they don't actually want to fix the problem at all. Yes, I know that's hard to believe...
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,345
    Just wondering what Dowden will threaten Exeter University with, given that we've never played the National Anthem at graduations (well, not in the 320 I've done so far), and we instead we play music such as Tijuana Taxi and Dancing Queen (when the mood takes us) amongst the more serious stuff. I would almost have liked Braverman to have turned up while HS so we could play Cruella de Vil (though I'd have got the sack).

    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,123
    briantrumpet said:

    Just wondering what Dowden will threaten Exeter University with, given that we've never played the National Anthem at graduations (well, not in the 320 I've done so far), and we instead we play music such as Tijuana Taxi and Dancing Queen (when the mood takes us) amongst the more serious stuff. I would almost have liked Braverman to have turned up while HS so we could play Cruella de Vil (though I'd have got the sack).

    The best solution is to make Gaudeamus igitur the national anthem. Winner.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,345
    secretsqirrel said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Just wondering what Dowden will threaten Exeter University with, given that we've never played the National Anthem at graduations (well, not in the 320 I've done so far), and we instead we play music such as Tijuana Taxi and Dancing Queen (when the mood takes us) amongst the more serious stuff. I would almost have liked Braverman to have turned up while HS so we could play Cruella de Vil (though I'd have got the sack).

    The best solution is to make Gaudeamus igitur the national anthem. Winner.

    Why oh why have I never thought of including this in the selection of the music we play? Must see if I can find a decent arrangement now!!
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,325
    secretsqirrel said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Just wondering what Dowden will threaten Exeter University with, given that we've never played the National Anthem at graduations (well, not in the 320 I've done so far), and we instead we play music such as Tijuana Taxi and Dancing Queen (when the mood takes us) amongst the more serious stuff. I would almost have liked Braverman to have turned up while HS so we could play Cruella de Vil (though I'd have got the sack).

    The best solution is to make Gaudeamus igitur the national anthem. Winner.
    I had to Google that to refresh my memory of what it was.
    It definitely featured enough during my schooling to have left a lingering memory.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,227
    I know that lyric / tune from my yoof, don't recall from where and getting interference from Monty Python's Philosophers Song.

    Aristotle Aristotle was a buxxer for the bottle
    Rene Descartes was a drunken fart
    et al.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    orraloon said:

    I know that lyric / tune from my yoof, don't recall from where and getting interference from Monty Python's Philosophers Song.

    Aristotle Aristotle was a buxxer for the bottle
    Rene Descartes was a drunken fart
    et al.

    Old Stewart Mill of his own free will drunk half a pint of shandy and was particularly ill. Or something like that.
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,123
    Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed
    A lovely little thinker
    But a bu**er when he’s p*ssed.



  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,813
    Tory peer Mone regrets not being more transparent about links to PPE firm. Likefuckshedoes!?!
    Tory peer Mone regrets being caught out would be the more accurate headline
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,325
    veronese68 said:

    Tory peer Mone regrets not being more transparent about links to PPE firm. Likefuckshedoes!?!
    Tory peer Mone regrets being caught out would be the more accurate headline

    She's sorry in the same way as BJ is sorry.
    No remorse or repentance.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,227
    They got the money, hey, you know they got away
    They headed down south and they're still running today
    Singin'
    Go on, take the money and run
    Go on, take the money and run
  • bikes_and_dogs
    bikes_and_dogs Posts: 130
    Having watched David Attenborough's Planet Earth III earlier tonight, I'm seriously thinking of voting for the Green Party. Not just because the mainstream parties all seem to annoy me.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    bikes_and_dogs said:

    Having watched David Attenborough's Planet Earth III earlier tonight, I'm seriously thinking of voting for the Green Party. Not just because the mainstream parties all seem to annoy me.

    Have you ever looked at their actual policies?

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