Powerprofiles

ugo.santalucia

Aside from those whose FTP is higher than their 20 min effort, which shows poor understanding of what FTP means, I would really love to see these "full minute at 500-600 Watt"... :-)

#getreal

N0bodyOfTheGoat

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Aside from those whose FTP is higher than their 20 min effort, which shows poor understanding of what FTP means, I would really love to see these "full minute at 500-600 Watt"... :-)

#getreal

Just for you, Ugo.

My best 1min effort, from last year...
https://www.strava.com/activities/16619 ... /1422/1482

My recent best 20mins...
https://www.strava.com/activities/20645 ... s/138/1321

I'm not trying to outdo anyone, I'm trying to keep improving my sustained power, with the hope/aim of being able to ride an outdoor cat2 hill at 300W+ this year.

ugo.santalucia

NitrousOxide wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Aside from those whose FTP is higher than their 20 min effort, which shows poor understanding of what FTP means, I would really love to see these "full minute at 500-600 Watt"... :-)

#getreal

Just for you, Ugo.

My best 1min effort, from last year...
https://www.strava.com/activities/16619 ... /1423/1492

My recent best 20mins...
https://www.strava.com/activities/20645 ... s/138/1321

I'm not trying to outdo anyone, I'm trying to keep improving my sustained power, with the hope/aim of being able to ride an outdoor cat2 hill at 300W+ this year.

But that's 450 W, I don't have a problem with 450... even I can do nearly 400W for a minute. The problem is those above with an FTP of 230 that manage well in excess of 500 W for a minute... I think #getreal very much applies there

zeee

ugo.santalucia wrote:

NitrousOxide wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Aside from those whose FTP is higher than their 20 min effort, which shows poor understanding of what FTP means, I would really love to see these "full minute at 500-600 Watt"... :-)

#getreal

Just for you, Ugo.

My best 1min effort, from last year...
https://www.strava.com/activities/16619 ... /1423/1492

My recent best 20mins...
https://www.strava.com/activities/20645 ... s/138/1321

I'm not trying to outdo anyone, I'm trying to keep improving my sustained power, with the hope/aim of being able to ride an outdoor cat2 hill at 300W+ this year.

But that's 450 W, I don't have a problem with 450... even I can do nearly 400W for a minute. The problem is those above with an FTP of 230 that manage well in excess of 500 W for a minute... I think #getreal very much applies there

https://flic.kr/p/2drzYZE

You clearly don't know what ftp is. I can hold over 500w for a full minute as I used to sprint. My endurance is awful hence the low ftp. Plus I've been cycling since last June. Just because other people can do things you can't doesn't mean it's not true. Your initial issue was that someone had an ftp that was higher than their 20 minute pb. Now you have an issue with someone who's ftp is a lot lower than their 1 minute pb.

zeee

And that effort was measured using powertap p1 Pedals just in case you decide to question that next.

ugo.santalucia

Zeee wrote:

Now you have an issue with someone who's ftp is a lot lower than their 1 minute pb.

I do...

zeee

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Zeee wrote:

Now you have an issue with someone who's ftp is a lot lower than their 1 minute pb.

I do...

And why is that?

ugo.santalucia

Zeee wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Zeee wrote:

Now you have an issue with someone who's ftp is a lot lower than their 1 minute pb.

I do...

And why is that?

Because 1 minute is borderline endurance. 10-20 seconds efforts are fundamentally different from a 1 minute effort. That's why Usain Bolt never competed in the 400 metres.

To make a comparison which is easier to relate to... it's a bit like if you could run a lap of the 400m track in 50 seconds, but you'd struggle to do a Parkrun in 25 minutes. I would find it very odd.

If you are happy with your 500+ Watt over a minute, then probably your FTP is grossly underestimated... you are probably over 300, maybe you just can't be bothered when you measure it

N0bodyOfTheGoat

ugo.santalucia wrote:

NitrousOxide wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Aside from those whose FTP is higher than their 20 min effort, which shows poor understanding of what FTP means, I would really love to see these "full minute at 500-600 Watt"... :-)

#getreal

Just for you, Ugo.

My best 1min effort, from last year...
https://www.strava.com/activities/16619 ... /1423/1492

My recent best 20mins...
https://www.strava.com/activities/20645 ... s/138/1321

I'm not trying to outdo anyone, I'm trying to keep improving my sustained power, with the hope/aim of being able to ride an outdoor cat2 hill at 300W+ this year.

But that's 450 W, I don't have a problem with 450... even I can do nearly 400W for a minute. The problem is those above with an FTP of 230 that manage well in excess of 500 W for a minute... I think #getreal very much applies there

It's 502W average for the whole 1min9secs segment, or 520W average for the best minute of it (I realised I accidentally gave a link to the former and edited my post). 500W average for a minute is nothing special IMO, if you've been cycling for years and doing regular hard 1min efforts.

The guy who took the KOM for "Bitterne 13.5%" (and a load of other local short hill segments) late last summer has a really skewed power profile, Andi's sprint power is mind-blowing from the few people I follow, but he hardly ever does 20mins of sustained power efforts... IIRC when he did a 20min outdoor effort last month, it was ~284W.

While I, since discovering the cat3/4 hills around Warnford in June 2017 and then buying the turbo trainer Xmas 2017, very rarely bother with the local inclines these days... So unless I feel the urge to sprint up Taunton when I'm practically home, like I did last month on a very rare recent outdoor ride https://www.strava.com/activities/20529 ... /6572/6632 , I'm not going to improve my 1min power. Given I don't race, improving my 1min power is not going to help me improve my average power climbing Old Winchester Hill etc.

I only started doing cycling for fitness in January 2017 at the age of 43, on the back of ~3 years of piling on weight (up to ~95Kg) and becoming incredibly unfit after my RTA... One morning around May 2016 while running late for my bus to work, the alarm bells started ringing that I needed to change my lifestyle, after getting nasty chest pains less than ~10secs after beginning to jog.

zeee

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Zeee wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Zeee wrote:

Now you have an issue with someone who's ftp is a lot lower than their 1 minute pb.

I do...

And why is that?

Because 1 minute is borderline endurance. 10-20 seconds efforts are fundamentally different from a 1 minute effort. That's why Usain Bolt never competed in the 400 metres.

To make a comparison which is easier to relate to... it's a bit like if you could run a lap of the 400m track in 50 seconds, but you'd struggle to do a Parkrun in 25 minutes. I would find it very odd.

If you are happy with your 500+ Watt over a minute, then probably your FTP is grossly underestimated... you are probably over 300, maybe you just can't be bothered when you measure it

Usain bolt did actually do 400m. He was originally a 400m sprinter but he didn't like the training so he stuck to 2s and 1s.

My ftp is taken from a long climb I did and is the highest wattage I have held during a full hour. I attempted a 20 minute ftp test on zwift and that was 240ish Watts. The numbers I have provided in the thread are all from rides I have done and all I can go by. Some people are built more for short sharp bursts others are better at longer sustained efforts. There are guys at my club who I leave behind on climbs everytime but I get dropped during chain gangs with the same people.

I would love to say my ftp is underestimated but unfortunately that is just where I am at the moment.

ugo.santalucia

... anyway,

your claim is not even the most outlandish... some manage 600 W or more for a minute upthread... despite pretty paltry FTPs...

Isn't 600W the kind of figure someone who wants to win the 4K individual pursuit at the Olympics should manage for just over 4 minutes?

It's good to know that there are plenty of folks on Bike Radar who could at least keep up for one minute... maybe they could do it as a relay :-)

... I don't even think I would be able to accelerate the bike to that kind of speed... let alone keep the speed for a minute...

ugo.santalucia

... actually according to this published source even less than 600 W, so that should be accessible to most people on this thread...

OnTheRopes

ugo.santalucia wrote:

threads like this are the very reason fora are dying... a bunch of middle aged men trying to outdo each other with (mostly made up) numbers... :-(

For somebody who thinks threads like this are killing the forum you seem to be taking quite an active participation. Or were you just trolling?

joe2008

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Aside from those whose FTP is higher than their 20 min effort, which shows poor understanding of what FTP means, I would really love to see these "full minute at 500-600 Watt"... :-)

#getreal

there you go... at 65kg, age 54.

ugo.santalucia

Joe, it seems to me those numbers are all over the place and picking the best one as the Gospel is probably not the scientific way of doing it.

If you want to believe that you can hold > 600W for one full minute then fair enough, but that also means that you could do a 1 minute turn at the front in a team pursuit at international level... if you think you can, then your numbers are real.

On the other hand, your best 3 minute means that you could in principle be competitive at the world track championships in the female category in the 3k pursuit... maybe not gold medal material, but competitive... again, your call if you want to believe that or not.

More generally, if the umbers people quote are to be believed, there is a lot of wasted talent on here...

aberdeen_lune

He’s right you know. The 1 minute and 5 minute powers on here are very impressive. Not mine of course because I’m a weedy mid fifties wannabe.

There’s a lot of room for improvement on the longer time intervals though.

zeee

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If you want to believe that you can hold > 600W for one full minute then fair enough, but that also means that you could do a 1 minute turn at the front in a team pursuit at international level... if you think you can, then your numbers are real.

Unless he has somehow faked these results then he can clearly hold 600w for a minute. Or am I missing something?

How are his numbers not real?

ugo.santalucia

Zeee wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If you want to believe that you can hold > 600W for one full minute then fair enough, but that also means that you could do a 1 minute turn at the front in a team pursuit at international level... if you think you can, then your numbers are real.

Unless he has somehow faked these results then he can clearly hold 600w for a minute. Or am I missing something?

How are his numbers not real?

No need for faking anything... It's the way things are measured. When you "estimate efforts" from a different effort, what you are doing is incorrect.
I've seen plenty of cases where, for instance, Strava tells a runner that his best 1 mile effort is somewhere in the ballpark of Roger Bannister's record, but that doesn't mean that such runner can actually do a mile in just over 4 minutes. In fact, the runner in question told me he can't even do 1 lap of the track in just over 1 minute, let alone 4. He is a strong club runner, someone who runs 5k in 16 minutes and a marathon in just under 2 hours and a half.

If you can do 1 minute at 600 W, then you should indeed be able to jump on a wattbike or equivalent and do just that, rather than stitching up estimates from other efforts.
I know fairly strong riders who can jump on a wattbike and pedal at 450 Watt for a minute, I don't know anyone who can do 600... I actually know one who I think can, since he is fresh national team pursuit champion, but he keeps his numbers rather for himself, as you might imagine.

Do I believe for a minute that any of the numbers quoted above is anything but a misled estimate?

No

zeee

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Zeee wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If you want to believe that you can hold > 600W for one full minute then fair enough, but that also means that you could do a 1 minute turn at the front in a team pursuit at international level... if you think you can, then your numbers are real.

Unless he has somehow faked these results then he can clearly hold 600w for a minute. Or am I missing something?

How are his numbers not real?

No need for faking anything... It's the way things are measured. When you "estimate efforts" from a different effort, what you are doing is incorrect.
I've seen plenty of cases where, for instance, Strava tells a runner that his best 1 mile effort is somewhere in the ballpark of Roger Bannister's record, but that doesn't mean that such runner can actually do a mile in just over 4 minutes. In fact, the runner in question told me he can't even do 1 lap of the track in just over 1 minute, let alone 4. He is a strong club runner, someone who runs 5k in 16 minutes and a marathon in just under 2 hours and a half.

If you can do 1 minute at 600 W, then you should indeed be able to jump on a wattbike or equivalent and do just that, rather than stitching up estimates from other efforts.
I know fairly strong riders who can jump on a wattbike and pedal at 450 Watt for a minute, I don't know anyone who can do 600... I actually know one who I think can, since he is fresh national team pursuit champion, but he keeps his numbers rather for himself, as you might imagine.

Do I believe for a minute that any of the numbers quoted above is anything but a misled estimate?

No

Ok. I get that and you are right to an extent. But this thread was about people's power pbs. Everyone in this thread has clearly held the numbers provided at some point. At no point did anyone say they could hit those numbers on a consistent basis. On any given day I could jump on a watt bike and hold 500w for a minute. But only once and not in enough of a controlled manner to hold a line on a track in a team pursuit.

zeee

If you ask a sprinter what his personal best is for 100m he's going to give you his best time. Not what time he thinks he could jump on a track and do on a regular basis.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Exactly, hitting an average power wattage for a given time interval (which is what I took this thread to be about), is entirely different from an international athlete being able to repeatedly hit that ballpark figure on the same day.

Didn't Froome average something insane like 400W for an hour on his breakaway win on the Giro Finestre stage last year? I've done a few sessions of ~30mins this year trying to do several 1min intervals of ~400W on RoadGrandTour's Stelvio Pass and surprisingly enough, my average power for those intervals got progressively worse... For me, they were absolutely brutal short workouts!

https://power-meter.cc shows trends for the last six weeks of training sessions with a power meter, as well as your one-off PBs, one-off PB improvements are nice for a short term cycling ego boost... But it's repeating that sort of figure regularly and ideally showing an upward trend of improvement, if I'm doing intervals focusing on that time interval, that matters to me.

ugo.santalucia

In response to Zeee

yes, if you accept an estimate as a measure of your athletic capabilities, then I am sure all those numbers have some meaning.
Personally I don't think there is any merit in an estimate and if you want to know what power you can sustain for one minute, then you should measure just that.

There is an interesting part of Michael Hutchinson's "The Hour" book where he explains how, doing all the corrections for air resistance, humidity etc, he should have easily thrashed Boardman's record... the reality proved somewhat different.
Luckily he is an intelligent person and he never believed for a minute in those estimates and calculations.

As you say, a sprinter will tel you what his best time over 100 metres is, not the time he reckons he could achieve based on some work he did on the treadmill.

I would be very curious to see how those numbers compare with some REAL measurements. Interestingly, you can see how the FTPs, which are typically measured in a more realistic fashion (if still not the real thing, as the 60 minute effort is estimated from a 20 minute one) are for the most very average.

superlightweight

Look up Allan and Coggan's power profile charts, it suggests that across the spectrum of riders (untrained > elite), FTP will be from 32 to 55% of 1min power. Which makes nothing in this thread unrealistic ??

joe2008

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Personally I don't think there is any merit in an estimate and if you want to know what power you can sustain for one minute, then you should measure just that.

Why do you keep saying 'estimate'?

The numbers are from regular riding, not seeing what I can sustain for one minute. So maybe I could hold more power for a minute if I tried harder.

I held over 500 watts for one full minute nearly every week in a 12 week block, so I can clearly do it regularly.

ugo.santalucia

superlightweight wrote:

Look up Allan and Coggan's power profile charts, it suggests that across the spectrum of riders (untrained > elite), FTP will be from 32 to 55% of 1min power. Which makes nothing in this thread unrealistic ??

Define untrained... I don't think anyone on here is untrained

ugo.santalucia

joe2008 wrote:

From what I can see, these are all manipulated numbers, if you can't see that, then we are talking a different language

joe2008

ugo.santalucia wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

From what I can see, these are all manipulated numbers, if you can't see that, then we are talking a different language

Define 'manipulated'.

superlightweight

ugo.santalucia wrote:

superlightweight wrote:

Look up Allan and Coggan's power profile charts, it suggests that across the spectrum of riders (untrained > elite), FTP will be from 32 to 55% of 1min power. Which makes nothing in this thread unrealistic ??

Define untrained... I don't think anyone on here is untrained

Try reading my post again and perhaps look up the chart as I suggested?

zeee

You are kind of arguing against yourself here. My 1minute pb of over 500w was obtained from an attempt at a local KOM on which I held 924w for 30 seconds (and still ended up 4th). If I was to attempt just a 1 minute effort then I am sure I could easily pass 500 regularly. I don't think anyone here has gone out to attempt a personal best for each time period.

ugo.santalucia

superlightweight wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

superlightweight wrote:

Look up Allan and Coggan's power profile charts, it suggests that across the spectrum of riders (untrained > elite), FTP will be from 32 to 55% of 1min power. Which makes nothing in this thread unrealistic ??

Define untrained... I don't think anyone on here is untrained

Try reading my post again and perhaps look up the chart as I suggested?

OK, then I am clearly wrong and I should investigate why I can't go anywhere near the 530 Watt for one minute that the table has nicely predicted for me. :roll:

Unless of course even Alan and Coggan use extrapolated values... :roll: