Velo Birmingham & Midlands May 12 2019

DeVlaeminck

Pretty much why I've always avoided these mass participation events that don't demand a level of fitness that at least helps whittle out the least experienced riders - even then in a Fred Whitton or Marmotte I'd try and stay well to the front of any large group I end up in and ride more cautiously - sit a little further back or slightly outside unless everyone is clearly used to group riding/racing.

The thing is if RideLondon VeloBirmingham etc marketed themselves as a gentle family style or easy club run pootle over distance would they attract the same number of participants - and would they stump up the same cash. Possibly they would if they tried it - that vintage cycle ride in Derbyshire I forget the name of has all sorts of people on all sorts of bikes taking part - but so long as they tap into the sportive market people should expect it's going to carry a bigger element of risk than many might be happy with.

imposter2.0

Philip Whiteman wrote:

Now that you have done the Velo, what is your next biggest challenge?

The Kidderminster Killer may be the answer.

http://beaconrcc.org.uk/audaxes/kidderm ... to-heaven/

Poor choice of name for that event, I think...

veronese68

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Slowest riders seem to be ~9mph but there seem to be some results at over 15hrs - 6mph ...

Were the being called fat and slow? How many pub stops for those at 15 hours?

I know you like your bike pub crawl... have you seen this? I'm going to make my official return to SW London just for that

http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/17-559/

I like the sound of that, I doubt I'd see much of you after the start though.

ugo.santalucia

Veronese68 wrote:

I like the sound of that, I doubt I'd see much of you after the start though.

You never know, I'll be on my Brompton

EagleDay

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Aside from the fact that there are no chevrons or indeed steep descents in the West Midlands as you seem to suggest (if there are, where were the marshals calming the traffic of riders?), it is frustrating that every single time they manage to attract 15+K riders on closed road sportives, inevitably someone has to die. There are probably just as many riders going out for a sunday ride in the area and there isn't a casualty every week, which suggests these events, road closures or not, are inherently dangerous.
I go as far as saying that if the roads were open, probably nobody would die (although there would be other, less dramatic issues).

And how many car drivers do you think would be patient enough to tolerate a large Sportive on open roads? The result would be carnage!

ugo.santalucia

EagleDay wrote:

And how many car drivers do you think would be patient enough to tolerate a large Sportive on open roads? The result would be carnage!

I doubt... you'd need loads of marshals at the junctions. Bear in mind RRV is bigger than Velo Birmingham and it's on open roads... as far as I am aware there are no regular accidents with cars... it is possible, I don't think it's more dangerous than closed roads, but it needs a level of logistics that are not easy to put together.

EagleDay

Capt Slog wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

Don't understand the lure of these rides, it is already a bit iffy when you join a Sunday ride with the club and there are a couple of new riders, imagine riding with 17,000 new people! Ok, it is closed roads, but you need to pay for it, possibly get a hotel room, it just sounds like an unnecessary expense for riding my bike with an increased risk of injury and accidents! Much prefer the sense of adventure of an audax which is a lot more what cycling is about, in my opinion.

Where do you get "riding with 17,000 new people"? In my case, there were perhaps 16,000 in front of me, and likely some of them were in their cars and heading home before i got halfway round!

EagleDay

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

david7m wrote:

4 hours without the toilet and no additional drinks or food sounds a tall order?
We stopped 3 times which added about 15 mins.

I did 5:36 without stopping. 2 750ml bottles, couple of flapjack bars, a bit of Soreen and a pack of cliff energy chew things. It’s quite doable.

I got nowhere near that time, I'm one of the 69yo slowcoaches but I did it in 8:53:03 (a damn sight quicker than I expected)on a couple of Chiacharge a couple of Veloforte and one Litre of Hydrafit with a pitstop at the 86m point for a packet of crisps and a cup of Coke. So I would agree, a 100 is doable for most regular cyclists IF they stay within their limits.

david7m

I drink too much:)

kingrollo

ugo.santalucia wrote:

awavey wrote:

I caught up with a friend who did the ride for a chat tonight and they said the "risky" riders who werent the out and out faster riders & chain gangs fwiw who all passed on the right and made their presence known, these were generally the ones who probably just thought they were as quick, but actually werent that fast as they couldnt keep up with the really fast riders, and they just werent riding predictably for a group ride situation with that many riders on the road.

Too fast for their ability, I've covered it above.
Obviously those who are used to racing, are more comfortable in the situation, problem is they drag others who are not.

can't you just say closed road sportives aren't for you and leave at that.

I don't ride TTs or Audux events - but I don't bombard those forums with increasingly weak arguements as to why people should shun these events

EagleDay

Don't some of you people realise how much you sound like those people who would like to put a stop to the Velo? You won't stop the fast boys making a race of it, remove timings.....they have cycle computers; ban cycle computers....they have mobile phones; ban mobile phones.....they have watches. You can't really grade by speed unless you increase the road closure times to enable the slower riders to complete the course before the cut-off time. Personally, I enjoyed watching the chaingangs going through. The organisers need to get it through to all riders, fast or slow, to ride in the spirit of the event, and that is the basic rule of slow riders on the left and overtaking on the right. For some distance I was behind two riders who were talking to each other, one was riding well to the left the other in the middle of the road and if a faster rider was passing on the right it forced other even faster riders to cut into the left. Maybe the domestiques could deal with such the problem when seen. Marshalling nearly 20000 riders on the road at the same time must be a nightmare, but I don't think the problem is insurmountable, we all have a role to play to make it as safe as possible.

ugo.santalucia

kingrollo wrote:

I don't ride TTs or Audux events - but I don't bombard those forums with increasingly weak arguements as to why people should shun these events

But you could if you wanted to... it's not against the rules of this forum.

Against your point, I think there should be more events like Velo Birmingham, but they should help promote cycling, as opposed to help promote hate against cyclists. Over time I made some suggestions on how I think they should be run.
They should be less Team Sky and more Sky Ride, they should be inclusive (shorter distance, lower speed, a safer overall experience), rather than satisfy the perverse PRO peloton fantasies of a few individuals who already cycle too much and could do with doing something else that day.

There are improvements though, at least this time they didn't piss off an entire community with their badly planned road closures, like they did in 2017 or in the doomed Velo South.

For the record, designing an event around people like myself, who already cycle 8,000 miles every year, serves no practical purpose for society, it doesn't do any good, so at the very least it should not harm others

kingrollo

ugo.santalucia wrote:

kingrollo wrote:

I don't ride TTs or Audux events - but I don't bombard those forums with increasingly weak arguements as to why people should shun these events

But you could if you wanted to... it's not against the rules of this forum.

Against your point, I think there should be more events like Velo Birmingham, but they should help promote cycling, as opposed to help promote hate against cyclists. Over time I made some suggestions on how I think they should be run.
They should be less Team Sky and more Sky Ride, they should be inclusive (shorter distance, lower speed, a safer overall experience), rather than satisfy the perverse PRO peloton fantasies of a few individuals who already cycle too much and could do with doing something else that day.

There are improvements though, at least this time they didn't wee-wee off an entire community with their badly planned road closures, like they did in 2017 or in the doomed Velo South.

For the record, designing an event around people like myself, who already cycle 8,000 miles every year, serves no practical purpose for society, it doesn't do any good, so at the very least it should not harm others

You forgot to add "in your opinion"

ugo.santalucia

in my opinion... it comes without saying, I'm not Theresa May pontificating on what the British People want

mrfpb

ugo.santalucia wrote:

For the record, designing an event around people like myself, who already cycle 8,000 miles every year, serves no practical purpose for society, it doesn't do any good, so at the very least it should not harm others

This, basically. We need events for people that are not comfortable with other riders pulling in front of them with 6 inches of room between wheels, and people who feel the need to brake most of the way downhill. Because, frankly, that is the type of person that mass participation events (especially for charity) tend to attract.

Personally I found RideLondon to be less safe than any of the open road sportives I've done, and that was down to numbers of participants. 4,000 for the Dragon Ride (my biggest open road sportive) compared to 20,000 for RLS leaves plenty of room for slowcoaches like me to share the road with chain gangs doing 25mph.

kingrollo

ugo.santalucia wrote:

in my opinion... it comes without saying, I'm not Theresa May pontificating on what the British People want

you sound about as likeable.

EagleDay

mrfpb wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

For the record, designing an event around people like myself, who already cycle 8,000 miles every year, serves no practical purpose for society, it doesn't do any good, so at the very least it should not harm others

This, basically. We need events for people that are not comfortable with other riders pulling in front of them with 6 inches of room between wheels, and people who feel the need to brake most of the way downhill. Because, frankly, that is the type of person that mass participation events (especially for charity) tend to attract.

Personally I found RideLondon to be less safe than any of the open road sportives I've done, and that was down to numbers of participants. 4,000 for the Dragon Ride (my biggest open road sportive) compared to 20,000 for RLS leaves plenty of room for slowcoaches like me to share the road with chain gangs doing 25mph.

I suggest it has nothing to do with numbers but riders ignoring the organiser's advice of slow riders to the left and leave the right for overtaking and fast riders. I saw too many riders riding spread across the road as if they were on a Sunday morning 'tootle' along the railway walk and too many making a 'proper' race of it and weaving in and out of the pack. Having said that, it did not bother me too much as long as I could keep myself safe and I thoroughly enjoyed it no matter what. The only damper being the fatality.

kingrollo

Yes some people are making it sound like death race 2000 - and you were luck to escape unscathed.

I know a fair few people who did the ride - and whilst the death of a cyclist put a damper on things - most of them had an enjoyable ride

EagleDay

ugo.santalucia wrote:

kingrollo wrote:

Against your point, I think there should be more events like Velo Birmingham, but they should help promote cycling, as opposed to help promote hate against cyclists. Over time I made some suggestions on how I think they should be run.
They should be less Team Sky and more Sky Ride, they should be inclusive (shorter distance, lower speed, a safer overall experience), rather than satisfy the perverse PRO peloton fantasies of a few individuals who already cycle too much and could do with doing something else that day.

I agree. Closed road sportives have a lot more chance of promoting cycling than open road types. I have done a handful of Sportives and Audax rides, and the only time I have seen active roadside spectators or even people taking a mild interest is on the Velo Birmingham.

ugo.santalucia

EagleDay wrote:

I agree. Closed road sportives have a lot more chance of promoting cycling than open road types. I have done a handful of Sportives and Audax rides, and the only time I have seen active roadside spectators or even people taking a mild interest is on the Velo Birmingham.

You might agree, but that's not what I meant.
I can't care less about people getting interested in watching races from the roadside, I want people to get off their cars and onto their bikes to go to work or for the school run. I want UK cities to be like Dutch cities.
I don't think that sportives or Audax events help much, open roads or closed. We need more events where the roads are closed for people to stroll around cities, maybe even stroll at a brisk 15 mph, discover how easy it is to go from Birmingham to Coventry, which they didn't think it was even possible.

What we don't need is a bunch of wanna be pro howling down the roads at 30 mph, that doesn't help anybody...

kingrollo

ugo.santalucia wrote:

EagleDay wrote:

I agree. Closed road sportives have a lot more chance of promoting cycling than open road types. I have done a handful of Sportives and Audax rides, and the only time I have seen active roadside spectators or even people taking a mild interest is on the Velo Birmingham.

You might agree, but that's not what I meant.
I can't care less about people getting interested in watching races from the roadside, I want people to get off their cars and onto their bikes to go to work or for the school run. I want UK cities to be like Dutch cities.
I don't think that sportives or Audax events help much, open roads or closed. We need more events where the roads are closed for people to stroll around cities, maybe even stroll at a brisk 15 mph, discover how easy it is to go from Birmingham to Coventry, which they didn't think it was even possible.

What we don't need is a bunch of wanna be pro howling down the roads at 30 mph, that doesn't help anybody...

So you are calling for a closed road event from birmingham to coventry ?

EagleDay

ugo.santalucia wrote:

EagleDay wrote:

I agree. Closed road sportives have a lot more chance of promoting cycling than open road types. I have done a handful of Sportives and Audax rides, and the only time I have seen active roadside spectators or even people taking a mild interest is on the Velo Birmingham.

You might agree, but that's not what I meant.
I can't care less about people getting interested in watching races from the roadside, I want people to get off their cars and onto their bikes to go to work or for the school run. I want UK cities to be like Dutch cities.
I don't think that sportives or Audax events help much, open roads or closed. We need more events where the roads are closed for people to stroll around cities, maybe even stroll at a brisk 15 mph, discover how easy it is to go from Birmingham to Coventry, which they didn't think it was even possible.

What we don't need is a bunch of wanna be pro howling down the roads at 30 mph, that doesn't help anybody...

15mph around town and city streets? a bit risky if you ask me. Maybe Audax and Sportives are not the way to go, but closed road events are the only ones that grab peoples attention (by the way, since when have Audax and Sportive rides become races? Short Audax rides in particular, would be suitable for families). I'll say it again, we all have a part to play in the safety of these events if riders ignore the organiser's advice who's fault does it become when an accident occurs? Even if you had events advertised as family runs, say up to 30m loops you would still have those wanting to make a race of it. Getting people out of their cars and off the school run? ha! Some time ago a school banned parking outside the school and the kids had to walk a few yards further and look at the fuss that caused. :roll:

ugo.santalucia

kingrollo wrote:

So you are calling for a closed road event from birmingham to coventry ?

It's a great idea, like a skyride... no txxats, no timing, no pens and pelotons, just turn up and ride... family friendly route

RossoCorso34

ugo.santalucia wrote:

kingrollo wrote:

So you are calling for a closed road event from birmingham to coventry ?

It's a great idea, like a skyride... no txxats, no timing, no pens and pelotons, just turn up and ride... family friendly route

They do this in London the day before Ride London, it's ace. I did it with my boy last year, he was 6 at the time

kingrollo

ugo.santalucia wrote:

kingrollo wrote:

So you are calling for a closed road event from birmingham to coventry ?

It's a great idea, like a skyride... no txxats, no timing, no pens and pelotons, just turn up and ride... family friendly route

Personally I think that would have limited appeal. 20 - 30 miles is a quite stretch for a new cyclist - Turn up and ride implies you expect it to be a FOC event - and even if you did charge, your going to have to limit numbers - so the cost per ride would probably be as high if not higher than the velo.

ugo.santalucia

FOC, bring in corporate sponsors, boot out those profit makers... Birmingham is a global city, they should be able to do something on the scale of London

EagleDay

ugo.santalucia wrote:

FOC, bring in corporate sponsors, boot out those profit makers... Birmingham is a global city, they should be able to do something on the scale of London

I'm beginning to think you are a closet NIMBY ugo. Whinging for the sake of it just because you do not agree with something. What is wrong with somebody making a profit out of these events, it's a business same as any other, and as long as somebody is prepared to put the effort in to organise such large events I am happy to pay. You'll be saying next those companies who organise the £2000+ LEJOG rides should do it voluntarily. What's the difference?

awavey

fwiw Sky rides always felt to me like the most dangerous rides to be on the route surrounded by hard metal barriers with sticking out legs and everyone seemingly attracted by an invisible homing beacon on your bike, and people who must have ridden twice the distance per lap simply because they couldnt hold a straight line, oh and the random kid pulling an emergency stop because they were bored and the pedestrians stepping in front of you because well b****y cyclists etc.

give me a sportive anyday

EagleDay

awavey wrote:

fwiw Sky rides always felt to me like the most dangerous rides to be on the route surrounded by hard metal barriers with sticking out legs and everyone seemingly attracted by an invisible homing beacon on your bike, and people who must have ridden twice the distance per lap simply because they couldnt hold a straight line, oh and the random kid pulling an emergency stop because they were bored and the pedestrians stepping in front of you because well b****y cyclists etc.

give me a sportive anyday

If they are anything like those on the local railway walk and canal towpath, I can believe it.

ugo.santalucia

awavey wrote:

fwiw Sky rides always felt to me like the most dangerous rides to be on the route surrounded by hard metal barriers with sticking out legs and everyone seemingly attracted by an invisible homing beacon on your bike, and people who must have ridden twice the distance per lap simply because they couldnt hold a straight line, oh and the random kid pulling an emergency stop because they were bored and the pedestrians stepping in front of you because well b****y cyclists etc.

give me a sportive anyday

They are not designed with you in mind and they shouldn't be. I said it all above, if you close the roads, it has to be for the greater good, not for the benefit of those who already cycle regularly.