Brake, brake, braaake!

First.Aspect

Am I the only one who pulses the brakes in the wet to begin with, to shed some of the water that's built up?

craigus89

First Aspect wrote:

Am I the only one who pulses the brakes in the wet to begin with, to shed some of the water that's built up?

You might be one of the few who seem to understand that there is a skill solution rather than a purchasable solution.

svetty

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Svetty wrote:

davebradswmb wrote:

Change the pads, I use Swisstop blue. Shimano pads aren't very good in the wet, scarily so if you have got used to decent wet weather braking.

I would say precisely the reverse. Shimano pads are tougher on rims as they are more abrasive - hence they work better. The SS blue are softer so kinder on rims but are a bit spongy - and waaaay over-priced.

You would say wrong then.

If you can direct me to any evidence based objective data to prove I am wrong I would be most welcome to accept this.

surfercyclist

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

Well this certainly flies in the face of all the disc-brake nay-sayers in the recent disc brake thread :P

No, it doesn't.

Guaranteed even if he changes pads he'll still think his rim brakes perform less effectively in the wet than his disc equipped bike.

Thats not what tests have shown.

WRONG! Tests have PROVEN that discs are better in the wet than rim. End of.

davebradswmb

Svetty wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Svetty wrote:

davebradswmb wrote:

Change the pads, I use Swisstop blue. Shimano pads aren't very good in the wet, scarily so if you have got used to decent wet weather braking.

I would say precisely the reverse. Shimano pads are tougher on rims as they are more abrasive - hence they work better. The SS blue are softer so kinder on rims but are a bit spongy - and waaaay over-priced.

You would say wrong then.

If you can direct me to any evidence based objective data to prove I am wrong I would be most welcome to accept this.

I only have subjective evidence, but I am running blue Swisstop on both my bikes now, best bike and commuter/winter bike. The commuter has Tektro brakes and I can stop better in the wet with this set-up than my mate on his 105s with stock Shimano pads. It has been pointed out that this isn't very scientific, but we are both roughly the same weight and although I may be slightly better at handling a road bike since he has come from a DH MTB background, I really don't think it makes that much difference.

Swisstop may be at the pricier end of the scale for brake pads, but at £22 for 4 pads I think it is probably the cheapest upgrade you can make to your bike, certainly as far as improving performance is concerned.

I think for £22 it is well worth trying at least to see if the performance of the brakes improves to a level the OP is satisfied with, if not he should then consider whether he needs to move to discs which will be a much bigger investment.

Bottom briquettes

darkhairedlord wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

cougie wrote:

You've only got a small amount of rubber on the road anyway.

You’ve only got a small mass at low speeds anyway. The amount of rubber you have on a solid surface is plenty. Never yet lost a front wheel under braking.

The mass will be the same at any speed.

Unless you’re approaching light speed velocity.

darkhairedlord

First Aspect wrote:

Am I the only one who pulses the brakes in the wet to begin with, to shed some of the water that's built up?

I do this.
#browniepoints

DeVlaeminck

Svetty wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Svetty wrote:

davebradswmb wrote:

Change the pads, I use Swisstop blue. Shimano pads aren't very good in the wet, scarily so if you have got used to decent wet weather braking.

I would say precisely the reverse. Shimano pads are tougher on rims as they are more abrasive - hence they work better. The SS blue are softer so kinder on rims but are a bit spongy - and waaaay over-priced.

You would say wrong then.

If you can direct me to any evidence based objective data to prove I am wrong I would be most welcome to accept this.

I read it as you saying softer compounds don't work as well as harder compounds which I wouldn't have thought was true ?

Whether SS blue are softer than shimano I don't know. I do think the SS work better than Shimano (or Campag of a few years back) though, I was actually surprised how much better they were.

thegreatdivide

Craigus89 wrote:

You might be one of the few who seem to understand that there is a skill solution rather than a purchasable solution.

This should be the stock response to the next 15,000 disc brake threads that will appear on here before the year is out.

Hat doffed.

shirley_basso

thegreatdivide wrote:

Craigus89 wrote:

You might be one of the few who seem to understand that there is a skill solution rather than a purchasable solution.

This should be the stock response to the next 15,000 disc brake threads that will appear on here before the year is out.

Hat doffed.

Who needs those when you can ride on zwift all winter and have f-all bike handling skills and then use discs when it rains in the real world?

ugo.santalucia

Craigus89 wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Am I the only one who pulses the brakes in the wet to begin with, to shed some of the water that's built up?

You might be one of the few who seem to understand that there is a skill solution rather than a purchasable solution.

that was my line!!

CitizenLee

Why does the use of disc brakes have to equate to poor bike handling skills? The two can happily co-exist.

craigus89

CitizenLee wrote:

Why does the use of disc brakes have to equate to poor bike handling skills? The two can happily co-exist.

It doesn't, but someone who doesn't know how to brake properly is going to have problems whether they are on a bike with disks or not.

CitizenLee

Craigus89 wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

Why does the use of disc brakes have to equate to poor bike handling skills? The two can happily co-exist.

It doesn't, but someone who doesn't know how to brake properly is going to have problems whether they are on a bike with disks or not.

This I can't dispute

thegreatdivide

Shirley Basso wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Craigus89 wrote:

You might be one of the few who seem to understand that there is a skill solution rather than a purchasable solution.

This should be the stock response to the next 15,000 disc brake threads that will appear on here before the year is out.

Hat doffed.

Who needs those when you can ride on zwift all winter and have f-all bike handling skills and then use discs when it rains in the real world?

True.

InconveniencedBadger

First Aspect wrote:

Am I the only one who pulses the brakes in the wet to begin with, to shed some of the water that's built up?

This is definately a good thing to do - I do it all the time.

Also make sure that the rims/pads are clean to begin with; an astonishing amount of filth gathers up on them in no time at all in dodgy weather. Riding more conservatively becomes inevitable in such conditions as rim brakes in the rain are never really ideal.

meanredspider

I’m loving the fallacy that you only need good brakes if you’re a crappy rider. Quite the opposite is true. Anybody can slow down to allow for the conditions - even my 82 year old mum. I don’t know what anybody else wants but I want to be extracting all the performance I can out of my bikes and a key part of that, if you use your brakes, is good brakes.

svetty

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Svetty wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Svetty wrote:

davebradswmb wrote:

Change the pads, I use Swisstop blue. Shimano pads aren't very good in the wet, scarily so if you have got used to decent wet weather braking.

I would say precisely the reverse. Shimano pads are tougher on rims as they are more abrasive - hence they work better. The SS blue are softer so kinder on rims but are a bit spongy - and waaaay over-priced.

You would say wrong then.

If you can direct me to any evidence based objective data to prove I am wrong I would be most welcome to accept this.

I read it as you saying softer compounds don't work as well as harder compounds which I wouldn't have thought was true ?

Whether SS blue are softer than shimano I don't know. I do think the SS work better than Shimano (or Campag of a few years back) though, I was actually surprised how much better they were.

It's more that the Shimano pads are slightly granular in texture. This results in a bit more bite - and hence better braking but also makes them more abrasive and hence they do wear rims faster in my experience.

Moonbiker

Fibrax pads if you want ones made in Wales

ugo.santalucia

Quite like a pair of pads that brake less well but survive a long ride... really don't fancy changing pads half the way through.

A few things I didn't like about disc brakes include the inability to assess pad wear without removing the wheels. Also, pad wear was always inconsistent and led to me having to reposition the caliper. They are system with very little tolerance and therefore intrinsically fiddly... they either work seamlessly or they give you constant grief. I experienced more of the latter than the former.

The alleged amazing braking in the wet is a bit of a red herring... yes, they work better than rim brakes, but they are not as good as they are in the dry, and of course they honk like bothered sea lions

darkhairedlord

Svetty wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Svetty wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Svetty wrote:

davebradswmb wrote:

Change the pads, I use Swisstop blue. Shimano pads aren't very good in the wet, scarily so if you have got used to decent wet weather braking.

I would say precisely the reverse. Shimano pads are tougher on rims as they are more abrasive - hence they work better. The SS blue are softer so kinder on rims but are a bit spongy - and waaaay over-priced.

You would say wrong then.

If you can direct me to any evidence based objective data to prove I am wrong I would be most welcome to accept this.

I read it as you saying softer compounds don't work as well as harder compounds which I wouldn't have thought was true ?

Whether SS blue are softer than shimano I don't know. I do think the SS work better than Shimano (or Campag of a few years back) though, I was actually surprised how much better they were.

It's more that the Shimano pads are slightly granular in texture. This results in a bit more bite - and hence better braking but also makes them more abrasive and hence they do wear rims faster in my experience.

A few days of poor weather on shimano pads and the rims are toast.

webboo

darkhairedlord wrote:

Svetty wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Svetty wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Svetty wrote:

davebradswmb wrote:

Change the pads, I use Swisstop blue. Shimano pads aren't very good in the wet, scarily so if you have got used to decent wet weather braking.

I would say precisely the reverse. Shimano pads are tougher on rims as they are more abrasive - hence they work better. The SS blue are softer so kinder on rims but are a bit spongy - and waaaay over-priced.

You would say wrong then.

If you can direct me to any evidence based objective data to prove I am wrong I would be most welcome to accept this.

I read it as you saying softer compounds don't work as well as harder compounds which I wouldn't have thought was true ?

Whether SS blue are softer than shimano I don't know. I do think the SS work better than Shimano (or Campag of a few years back) though, I was actually surprised how much better they were.

It's more that the Shimano pads are slightly granular in texture. This results in a bit more bite - and hence better braking but also makes them more abrasive and hence they do wear rims faster in my experience.

A few days of poor weather on shimano pads and the rims are toast.

I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate.

ugo.santalucia

Webboo wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

Svetty wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Svetty wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Svetty wrote:

davebradswmb wrote:

Change the pads, I use Swisstop blue. Shimano pads aren't very good in the wet, scarily so if you have got used to decent wet weather braking.

I would say precisely the reverse. Shimano pads are tougher on rims as they are more abrasive - hence they work better. The SS blue are softer so kinder on rims but are a bit spongy - and waaaay over-priced.

You would say wrong then.

If you can direct me to any evidence based objective data to prove I am wrong I would be most welcome to accept this.

I read it as you saying softer compounds don't work as well as harder compounds which I wouldn't have thought was true ?

Whether SS blue are softer than shimano I don't know. I do think the SS work better than Shimano (or Campag of a few years back) though, I was actually surprised how much better they were.

It's more that the Shimano pads are slightly granular in texture. This results in a bit more bite - and hence better braking but also makes them more abrasive and hence they do wear rims faster in my experience.

A few days of poor weather on shimano pads and the rims are toast.

I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate.

I killed my rear rim on two filthy rides... mind you, each of them was 200 km.
Not a big deal for me, I replaced the rim, which cost 35 quid... some folks spend the same money on a pair of pads...

shirley_basso

Well, 2 pairs.

Moonbiker

Why are people using ther brakes so much if you don't brake much rims last ages even in winter/mud etc.....

roger_merriman

Moonbiker wrote:

Why are people using ther brakes so much if you don't brake much rims last ages even in winter/mud etc.....

Ride with folks and a lot of folks, drag on their brakes and so on. For most part it doesn’t matter, most folks are nowhere nr the performance limit of their brakes most of the time.

Even folks who are experienced can have fairly shocking techniques, it’s not only a roadie thing, go to a MTB trail Center and look at the braking bumps etc.

ugo.santalucia

Moonbiker wrote:

Why are people using ther brakes so much if you don't brake much rims last ages even in winter/mud etc.....

In my case, I destroyed a rim by riding two late season Audax in Shropshire and Wales... long filthy descents, especially in Shropshire.

For the filthiest lanes in the land, look no further than Shropshire and Herefordshire

zest28

Craigus89 wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Am I the only one who pulses the brakes in the wet to begin with, to shed some of the water that's built up?

You might be one of the few who seem to understand that there is a skill solution rather than a purchasable solution.

Nobody in mountainbiking uses rim brakes. That is evidence enough for me that rim brakes suck for braking.

And have fun destroying your carbons wheels.

shirley_basso

Different set of skills. MTB is shot sharp technical braking. Road is long and flowing. With exceptions of course.

craigus89

Zest28 wrote:

Craigus89 wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Am I the only one who pulses the brakes in the wet to begin with, to shed some of the water that's built up?

You might be one of the few who seem to understand that there is a skill solution rather than a purchasable solution.

Nobody in mountainbiking uses rim brakes. That is evidence enough for me that rim brakes suck for braking.

And have fun destroying your carbons wheels.

Well done with the useless comparison to MTB. I won't be destroying my carbon wheels any time soon, I know how to brake properly