Brake, brake, braaake!

XTC2009

I love my Boardman Team Carbon, it's fast, comfortable and the miles tick by without me even realising it. But then it rains and I have to stop, and it is absolutely terrifying. It does stop, eventually, but by that point I've already broken all of my fingers and simultaneously breathed a sigh of relief that I am alive and chose to wear black shorts.

Coming from mountain biking, I am struggling to come to terms with how badly braking can be affected with rim brakes in the rain. Is there any way I can improve my braking performance with my existing setup? Are the stock 105 pads really that bad? Do I need to MTFU? Or should I just shut the bike away for the winter and invest in a cheap disc equipped ride to see me through until next summer?

ugo.santalucia

rain is a sign that you have to ride more conservatively. If you had perfect braking, you would lose grips on those skinny tyres and end up on the pavement.
Not a real world issue if you bear the above in mind

Matthewfalle

cheap disc will have cheap brakes so probably just as rubbish.

try changing the brake blocks koolstop salmon are recommended

#skids

lettingthedaysgoby

This is why disc brakes are better 8)

Bottom briquettes

Change the pads during rubbish weather. Clarke’s extreme pads work brilliantly.

ugo.santalucia

The solution doesn't necessarily always come in a product you can buy...

maybe people should look at the way they ride/brake...

I have no evidence and indeed there is no evidence (even just anecdotal evidence) that the number of cycling related accidents has diminished since disc brakes have been introduced...
The reality is that as soon as you get better brakes, you get more confident and you take more risks

shirley_basso

Assuming you have 11 sp 105 calipers then swisstop blue are what I use which are fantastic

cougie

Shimano blocks have always been fine for me but I've not used discs and I'm not looking to get them either. You've only got a small amount of rubber on the road anyway.

meanredspider

cougie wrote:

You've only got a small amount of rubber on the road anyway.

You’ve only got a small mass at low speeds anyway. The amount of rubber you have on a solid surface is plenty. Never yet lost a front wheel under braking.

darkhairedlord

meanredspider wrote:

cougie wrote:

You've only got a small amount of rubber on the road anyway.

You’ve only got a small mass at low speeds anyway. The amount of rubber you have on a solid surface is plenty. Never yet lost a front wheel under braking.

The mass will be the same at any speed.

svetty

Probably you are just used to the force needed to brake with hydraulic large rotor discs. Rim brakes in the wet will never have as much 'bite' and will need more squeeze at the lever.
Stock Shimano pads will stop you as fast as after market brands - just brake lightly to clear the rims of water before applying serious braking force.

minnnt

Seems a little extreme but I bought a Boardman Team CX as a winter bike and commuter to replace my Team Carbon. Disc brakes are far improved over rim brakes for wet riding. It takes full mudguards too which was a must for me. My Dad now has the Team Carbon and is a top bike imo but braking did let it down. I didn’t have 105 though, I had Tektro calipers which were absolute dogger.

StillGoing

Change the brake blocks for something decent and don't clean the brake track with WD40.

davebradswmb

Change the pads, I use Swisstop blue. Shimano pads aren't very good in the wet, scarily so if you have got used to decent wet weather braking.

CitizenLee

Well this certainly flies in the face of all the disc-brake nay-sayers in the recent disc brake thread :P

sloppyschleckonds

CitizenLee wrote:

Well this certainly flies in the face of all the disc-brake nay-sayers in the recent disc brake thread :P

No, it doesn't.

slowbike

darkhairedlord wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

cougie wrote:

You've only got a small amount of rubber on the road anyway.

You’ve only got a small mass at low speeds anyway. The amount of rubber you have on a solid surface is plenty. Never yet lost a front wheel under braking.

The mass will be the same at any speed.

Oh - I dunno - go fast enough and I'm sure you'll loose a bit of mass out the back ...

stueys

As lots of people have said, try new brake blocks. Swissstop are a distinct improvement on the Shim ones. Other than that rim brakes tend to be less than epic in wet weather, especially with a layer of winter grim in play as well. Discs are a much better bet if you want consistent, all weather braking performance.

slowbike

105 stock pads - using 105 calliper brakes? Or is it some other brake? What wheel rim? What tyres?

I do partially agree with Ugo - rain doesn't stop play, but it alters the way you ride - I'm far more careful about the corners and generally ride a little slower - it's not the rain, it's wet on the road surface - especially at this time of year where there's a lot of muck on the road that we've not had enough rain to clear.

There's also technique to be applied to wet weather braking - clearing off the rims first - then braking...

I have wanted disk brakes on the road before - in about -5°C with snow and ice on the road - a slow, dark descent having to use my crap rim brakes (not on my road bike - my tourer) and it sounded awful - and didn't feel like it was working well either.... but 99% of the time - rim brakes are fine... we're not even down into single digit temperatures - let alone into the freezing stuff...

meanredspider

darkhairedlord wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

cougie wrote:

You've only got a small amount of rubber on the road anyway.

You’ve only got a small mass at low speeds anyway. The amount of rubber you have on a solid surface is plenty. Never yet lost a front wheel under braking.

The mass will be the same at any speed.

Yes - you misunderstood - the mass is low and the speed is low - low inertia. You don’t need much rubber on the ground.

meanredspider

Slowbike wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

cougie wrote:

You've only got a small amount of rubber on the road anyway.

You’ve only got a small mass at low speeds anyway. The amount of rubber you have on a solid surface is plenty. Never yet lost a front wheel under braking.

The mass will be the same at any speed.

Oh - I dunno - go fast enough and I'm sure you'll loose a bit of mass out the back ...

Think Einstein said mass the opposite - though I’m not sure I understood either

CitizenLee

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

Well this certainly flies in the face of all the disc-brake nay-sayers in the recent disc brake thread :P

No, it doesn't.

Guaranteed even if he changes pads he'll still think his rim brakes perform less effectively in the wet than his disc equipped bike.

slowbike

meanredspider wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

cougie wrote:

You've only got a small amount of rubber on the road anyway.

You’ve only got a small mass at low speeds anyway. The amount of rubber you have on a solid surface is plenty. Never yet lost a front wheel under braking.

The mass will be the same at any speed.

Oh - I dunno - go fast enough and I'm sure you'll loose a bit of mass out the back ...

Think Einstein said mass the opposite - though I’m not sure I understood either

I don't think I'd understand if he asked for a coffee - so pass ...

craigus89

Shimano pads are fine. Just accept that braking is worse in wet weather and ride accordingly. It's not that hard.

pamplemoose

XTC2009 wrote:

I love my Boardman Team Carbon, it's fast, comfortable and the miles tick by without me even realising it. But then it rains and I have to stop, and it is absolutely terrifying. It does stop, eventually, but by that point I've already broken all of my fingers and simultaneously breathed a sigh of relief that I am alive and chose to wear black shorts.

If you're still using the Tektro brakes that the bike comes with, then they're the source of your poor braking as a) they are 'long drop' (to enable mudguards to be fit) and b) come with crappy pads.

Unless you want mud guards, swap them out for some 105 calipers.

svetty

davebradswmb wrote:

Change the pads, I use Swisstop blue. Shimano pads aren't very good in the wet, scarily so if you have got used to decent wet weather braking.

I would say precisely the reverse. Shimano pads are tougher on rims as they are more abrasive - hence they work better. The SS blue are softer so kinder on rims but are a bit spongy - and waaaay over-priced.

edward.s

I doubt you'll match the 'low finger force for high brake force' you are used to from MTB hydraulic discs on a rim brake machine. All you can really do is use the best pads available, keep the rims as clean as you can, use the wet braking techniques and leave conservative stopping distances. You'll have to accept you will need to pull on the levers relatively hard.

I only own disk-equipped road bikes now. For me personally, given I'm 100kg and ride through the winter and up and down hills, they just seem like a sensible option, but I had the luxury of starting from owning no road bikes at all a few years back. My children both have rim-braked machines but given their light weight and propensity for fair-weather riding only they are more than adequate if set up properly.

sloppyschleckonds

CitizenLee wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

Well this certainly flies in the face of all the disc-brake nay-sayers in the recent disc brake thread :P

No, it doesn't.

Guaranteed even if he changes pads he'll still think his rim brakes perform less effectively in the wet than his disc equipped bike.

Thats not what tests have shown.

CitizenLee

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

Well this certainly flies in the face of all the disc-brake nay-sayers in the recent disc brake thread :P

No, it doesn't.

Guaranteed even if he changes pads he'll still think his rim brakes perform less effectively in the wet than his disc equipped bike.

That's not what tests have shown.

Oh tests? You've got me then... it must all be placebo :roll:

XTC2009

Thanks for all the replies! I'm running 105 calipers with stock pads, on Hunt 4Seasons Rims and Schwalbe Pro One tubeless tyres. Fantastic in the dry, just scary in the wet. I'm used to riding in the rain and adjusting my riding style accordingly, and I know that I need to allow more distance to stop and that slamming my brakes on will just lock the wheels and cause a skid - with every other bike I've ridden. But with this bike, I can't lock my wheels up in the rain. I'm still learning the limits of this setup, but going downhill in the rain and not being able to stop confidently when I come to a junction is pretty horrible to experience.

DeVlaeminck

Svetty wrote:

davebradswmb wrote:

Change the pads, I use Swisstop blue. Shimano pads aren't very good in the wet, scarily so if you have got used to decent wet weather braking.

I would say precisely the reverse. Shimano pads are tougher on rims as they are more abrasive - hence they work better. The SS blue are softer so kinder on rims but are a bit spongy - and waaaay over-priced.

You would say wrong then.