On 24 hour Lock Down

inkj

I don’t want to sound paranoid… but I’m paranoid about my new bike getting stolen. I haven’t even got it yet.

I live in London.

I want to cycle to the cinema, or to Brighton and the cinema there… London… Brighton… these must be high bike stealing areas

I don’t really want to get insurance

So maybe I’m not paranoid enough

I am a Silver BC member – but I presume insurance is usually money down the drain. Hmm

Anyway, I bought this:

Lock - abus granit 53 d

I believe it’s GOLD rated. It has both the D-Lock and a chain lock. Fine.

Now I’m thinking….

After reading how thieves break into Gold Rated locks in minutes…

I’m thinking of also getting a Abus Granit XPlus 540 D-Lock

So I D-Lock both wheels/frame to something, and chain lock to it as well. Three locks.

My thoughts are… might be having the extra lock [three to crack] will put off thieves… as it’s extra work. Yeah all a bit much for a Bizango… but my other thinking is that the locks will stay with me, when I move onto another bike…

I’m not so worried by the weight – as I have panniers and am happy to be handicapped on my rides – if it means I won’t lose the bike… I’m sure the extra lock will be cheaper than insurance.

Wanting to leave my bike for hours in London/Brighton – tell me how stupid I am to be thinking about buying the extra lock? Or am I [for once] being wise?

CitizenLee

VooDoos are chav-magnets unfortunately, so maybe 3 locks isn't a bad idea..... but if a thief really wants your bike they'll get it, lock or not. The key is to make it look harder/more effort to steal than the bike next to it to deter opportunists. A hardened thief will likely have bolt cutters and possibly an angle grinder, which no lock will stand up to.

So if you really do value it then get insurance. Doesn't have to be bike specific, for example my home insurance covers my bike both when at home and when I've locked it up when I'm out and about.

cougie

Can't you get a cheap and cheerful bike for trips when you know you'll be leaving the bike out for a few hours ?

CitizenLee

^ Good point ^

In fact, if it's London can you not get a Boris Bike?

billycool

Always park your bike near shinier/more expensive bikes with less locks on them than you.

The suggestion of getting a cheap hack/commuter that no-one would be interested in stealing is also a sensible idea.

inkj

Damn

I really don’t want to use a cheap bike or a Borris bike

I don’t have home insurance

So... I should get the extra lock

And try and lock it in the best places.....

Argh

Bike thieves are so annoying

With the two abus locks, if they have the tools, how long will it take them to ‘liberate’ my Bizango ?

Gah

I wanna ride it down South Downs from Guildford to Brighton ... then lock it to watch a movie.... so I can’t get a cheap bike... it’s what I got the bike for

Hmm

Is there a better lock I can get???

Thanks everyone

fenix

Do they not have cinemas in Guildford ?

That seems a long ride - so you'll be hot and sweaty - and then want to go to the cinema ? Yuk.

Maybe make some friends in Brighton - leave the bike in their house and go to the cinema. I'd not be enjoying any movie thinking about my bike out there on the street.

CitizenLee

No, there are no locks that can't be beaten.

I get your point of wanting to ride the nice bike everywhere, but you have to weigh up the risks. I'm not familiar with the area, but a quick Google of "Brighton secure cycle parking" seems to bring back a fair few results, so that's worth looking into. In fact if you look at the map there's ones near both Odeon and Cineworld.

https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/conten ... arking-map
https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/conten ... -station-0

I'm going to press on the home insurance point too. It's pretty cheap to be honest, even with bikes added on. Not something I'd scrimp on for the sake of £10 or so per month. The police aren't interested in tracing stolen bikes either, it's almost like it's not a crime anymore. They just give you a crime reference number for your insurer and tell you to be on your way.

inkj

Yes they have a cinema at Guildford

I don’t live in Guildford

I want the treat (of cinema) to be at the end

It only takes a minute to crack a gold rated lock.

That’s awful

I’m really down about this now

I remember ten years ago just having a U lock and leaving my bike locked up all the time and never having a problem

fenix

CL's tip about secure parking is worth investigating. I know there are some faciilities where you have to register or pay to leave your bike undercover. I'd be a lot happier about leaving a bike there than out on the street.

How are you getting back from this cinema ? Guildford Brighton Cinema London ? Long day out.

inkj

Home insurance is a non starter

Strangely I live in a very nice building... super secure... in four years no one has got burgled

As you would have to get past too many security cameras and concierges.... and some how get access to lifts/floors

Also (conversely) home insurance would be expensive because of the value... so it’s a none starterj

Wouldn’t a bike only insurance be cheaper than £10 extra a month??? Through BC as you get a discount???

Even at £10... you would need to get the bike stolen once every four years???? Or much less as they don’t give you full value...

Argh... I’m conflicted

So it’s one minute to crack a lock

So if I have three that’s 3 mins

But it will make my bizango look more expensive as I’ve got it protected (by locks that almost cost more than the bike)

Hmm

inkj

Yes CL suggestion is excellent

Missed it while typing

Plan is cycle Guildford to shoreham on sea

Then to Brighton

Lock bike

Watch a film

Then train back to London.... hopefully with the bike

timothyw

Some lock tests here, probably worth watching - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pywN558dJaU

Seems like two gold sold secure locks will do a pretty decent job of protecting a bike, although a lot will depend on where you have locked it (is the thief likely to be disturbed/caught?), how secure the thing you've locked it to is (if they can cut the fence/whatever then they might just do that and take your bike locks and all).

Then the important question is how valuable your new bike is? If you're leaving £2k of bike out in plain sight, even securely locked, someone is going to see the potential for a big pay day and get their grinder out (or even just whip off valuable components with an allen key).

On the upside, occasional trips to the cinema should be safer - there's only a couple of hours window for the bike to be stolen - so not much time for a thief to go and get his tools if he happens to spot your nice bike but isn't equipped.

Riding to work and locking the bike in the street, or locking the bike up outside your home you are leaving it there perhaps 8 hours or more, a lot of time for it to be noticed and nicked (and the thief can notice it one day, nick it the next).

Another thing, if you find your bike isn't stolen but has been vandalised (eg tyres slashed) then at the very least move it, preferably take it home with you on the train - this can be done by bike thieves intending to return later with their tools.

inkj

At Halfords they suggested for a second lock I get a kryptonite

The one I’ve already ordered is an abus

Their thinking was the kyrptonite have a £1,500 guarantee

How effective is that guarantee

Do bike theives always leave the broken lock behind... or do they worry about evidence (finger prints) and mostly take it with them and dump it elsewhere?

Have any of you claimed on a kyrponite lock guarantee?

It’s strange to be thinking of getting a slightly less secure lock to instead also be covered by a guarantee

Yeah I doubt I would leave my bike longer than a film ever

At home its in our secure underground parking, with cameras and key fobs needed plus 24hr security

I’ve never worried about the at home storage of the bike

Thanks again everyone

JBA

If you have a home why don't you have home and contents insurance?

If the block you live in is insured under an overall policy that covers the whole block does it cover residents' bikes?

cooldad

No chance of that ^^^

inkj

I’ve never felt the need for home insurance

I have no clue what the building would do if someone’s bike got stolen

They seem to have 80-100 bikes

I know in the nine years the building has been open, there’s never been a bike stolen

But you would have to be crazy and dumb to try and steal one... too secure

fenix

Inkj wrote:

I’ve never worried about the at home storage of the bike

Thanks again everyone

I didn't think you had a bike yet ?

inkj

I don’t have the bike yet

But home security for the bike is not something I have worried about at all

I had a look at my bike bay a few weeks ago

You would need to take out about seven cameras and at least two security staff... and you would need two key fobs

The vast majority of the bikes in the secure parking at my home, are not locked... they live unshakled in their bays

inkj

Don’t know if this has changed

But krptonite scheme is one you have to pay subscription

Seems to be £30 for three years

So I can get a cheaper lock of theirs (Abas one I was looking at was £80) and get the subscription

Just worried if the thieves take the broken lock with them grr

fenix

dont think thieves would take the lock with them. They'd prob not want to get caught with it ? As to fingerprints - well gloves would help with that.

CitizenLee

No one needs insurance until they do

I wasn't talking about home insurance for the purpose of protecting it at home, I was talking about how it can cover your high value goods when away from home too... like when leaving a bike locked up outside a cinema.

The Kryptonite scheme sounds good on paper, but I think they can be reluctant to pay out and you have to send them broken lock too. When my Cube was stolen from my hallway they took the bike and the lock... luckily my home insurance paid out though.

jamski

'Home insurance' (actually insuring the CONTENTS of your home, not the home itself) is vitally important. Fire, floods, theft, you could loose everything!

For a bike of that value, you're looking at £5 a month for stand alone insurance, and they will cover the full original value of the bike, accidental damage, and some clothing/accessories too. I use a company called Assetsure. Thankfully never had to claim from them, but always very helpful. Get it insured, get a lock that they require (it'll only be a bronze one for that value) and be sensible, that's all you can do.

njee20

I can think of nothing worse than riding the Downs Link and then going to the cinema. You'll stink. What about everyone around you!? Ride to Brighton, get the train home, shower, go to a local cinema to bask in the glow of your success.

Doing that ride carrying 40kg of locks because you're too cheap to buy insurance? That's full on mental.

Get one good lock as a deterrent and just get insurance FFS. Contents insurance will probably be cheaper than a standalone policy, which are often hugely expensive.

02gf74

Bottom line is if someone really wants your bike they will have it. Use as many locks ad you like but eventually you will need to remove them, and when that happens someone sticks 5 1/2 inch blade in your face, will you argue?


One thing you can do is to make the bike look old and unattractive, wind black masking tape round the frame, badly spray red primer on rims and spokes etc.
.
It may get stolen, it may not.

Find out how much the insurance will cost compared to replacing the bike and decide whether it is worth having.

BTW there are gadgets that take a SIM card so you can phone it to get GPS location, as well as alarms.

Old fashioned way was to stamp post code but there are microdot things, Google it. Even older fashioned was to put name address on paper and roll it up inside the seat tube or post.

sniper68

I’m curious as to why home insurance is a non starter.
Just because there’s been no burglary is no reason.
I have never been burgled but still have insurance as to replace all my belongings in the event of a fire/flood etc would cost 1000s!!!
Home Insurance is a nobrainer.
As for leaving a bike with a d-lock out of site??Nope never.
I have over £500 worth of motorcycle locks/chains and floor anchors securing the bikes in my garage and they’re all in the home insurance nce as named items despite there never being a burglary on our road in the 20 years I’ve lived here.£60 a year for over £7ks worth of bikes is also a no brainer!

JBA

It's your money and your choice but I think there is something wrong with your thinking, Inkj.
You want to buy two or three really heavy locks which you have to carry around with you to secure your bike. You're doing this because you are (understandably) afraid it will get stolen yet you won't pay for insurance against theft. However, you have happily bought a Garmin Edge 1030 that cost more than the bike!
Why not cancel the order for the Garmin and get a lower spec model such as an Edge 520? The money you save will pay for bike insurance for a few years.

steve_sordy

I never leave my bike unattended unless it is locked up in my car or in my garage. I would rather the bike got trashed than stolen. The thought of some idle good for nothing scroat benefitting from my hard earned makes me seethe. :x

If I had to commute, then I would buy the cheapest used bike I could find, make it look even more undesirable, then leave it with a cheap lock on it. If it gets nicked, it gets nicked. As has been said before, if a thief wants your bike he will get it. If the locks are REALLY good, he will cut through the frame and load the bike into his van and then sell the parts. Frames are traceable, parts are not. Most frames end up in the canal anyway.

All bike thieves should be strung up by the goolies with heavy weights in their pockets! :x

inkj

JBA wrote:

It's your money and your choice but I think there is something wrong with your thinking, Inkj.
You want to buy two or three really heavy locks which you have to carry around with you to secure your bike. You're doing this because you are (understandably) afraid it will get stolen yet you won't pay for insurance against theft. However, you have happily bought a Garmin Edge 1030 that cost more than the bike!
Why not cancel the order for the Garmin and get a lower spec model such as an Edge 520? The money you save will pay for bike insurance for a few years.

Not sure where you think I've said I won't pay for insurance

That's one of the options

Are you conflating that I can't put it on home insurance because I don't have one [?]

As far as I can see it's about £5 a month

The choice seems to be one of these two,

ONE: buy the kryptonite lock. Benefits are with the extra lock, it will be extra secure and less likely to go missing. Then use the Kryptonite guarantee if anything does happen. The con is I’m not sure I trust the guarantee. I would rather get the extra lock. As it will work out way cheaper, and the bike is much less likely to go missing. But the con weighs heavily.

TWO: I get the bike insurance. The benefits are, I no longer worry if the bike goes missing as I 100% get the money back. The cons are that after the first 12 months it will have cost me more money [then buying the lock], and after the fourth year I will be worse off even if the bike gets stolen. As I believe the premium stays the same but the age of the bike is taken into consideration when it goes missing. I would have been better off saving the money and taking the hit when/if the bike gets taken. For a bike that will cost £468 maybe insurance isn’t that good of a deal. For one that cost 8k+ it might be a no brainer

inkj

steve_sordy wrote:

I never
All bike thieves should be strung up by the goolies with heavy weights in their pockets! :x

I think it’s a shame that bike theft seems so prevalent

I asked two policemen on my way home yesterday about how safe a bike locked up directly outside a well-lit and pretty busy tube station [and one in a nice area] – the bike owner/user of them suggested he wouldn’t leave his there. And went on to tell me how common bike theft is.

I don’t think getting a cheaper bike is an option I’m interested in.

As I said, if I trusted the kryptonite lock’s anti-theft promise, I would get one of them. As I don’t think I do, I would [out of protest against their marketing] not ever want to buy one of their locks.

Feels like getting the insurance [through BC with their small discount] and then not worrying about when it gets stolen – is the best way forward. Just need to have the mentality that it will go missing at some point and to not let that bother me too much.

Much like Sally Hawkins in Mike Leigh’s Happy Go Lucky, the day I see it’s gone… I need to shrug my shoulders [claim on the insurance] and say, ‘I didn’t even get a chance to say goodbye’

Now there is the sneaky plan. That I wouldn’t do. But Kryptonite [for taking the money and never seeming to pay out, deserve]… you buy a second lock… a Kryptonite one. But never use that second lock. Register it exactly how you are meant to. Then when the bike gets stolen…. Break the lock [at home] and send that in to Kryptonite. As one of the main issues is that [for some reason] thieves seem to take the locks with them [when they steal bikes]. I guess it’s better to dump any evidence where it won’t be found. Maybe the lock will give away what was used, or DNA, or something [?] – As it seems common for professional thieves to not leave the lock behind. I guess Kryptonite rely on that.

How much would you put on insurance for the stuff attached to the bike? I don’t mean lights/computer/water bottle/etc. – but the brackets???? Do you not bother? Is it even possible to buy the brackets [for say a Garmin] and how much are they [?] If they total maybe £20 - £30… and the lock itself was £50… is it fair to put £100 down for accessories [?]

End of long post

inkj

As presumably you will need to buy a new lock - so that should be on the insurance