TdF Stage 17 start format

poppit

Can't quite get my head around this one.

ASO will experiment with new start formula on stage 17 this year. The short stage will start at the foot of the Peyresourde. Riders will line up at the start according to GC position, like Cyclocross or F1.

RichN95.

No neutralised zone to start. Just everyone lines up in rows according to GC position and then the race starts immediately.

alanparsons

poppit wrote:

Can't quite get my head around this one.

ASO will experiment with new start formula on stage 17 this year. The short stage will start at the foot of the Peyresourde. Riders will line up at the start according to GC position, like Cyclocross or F1.

Sounds strange, I can only guess they want to calm the start down a little. With all the GC riders at the front blocking the road there is little chance of a breakaway going on the first climb, also it will spread the teams out so a single team (eg SKY) cannot dictate the pace as their riders will be all over the place at the start.
On the other hand it could be utter carnage as potential breakaway attempts force their way through.

napoleond

Well I’m hoping for carnage.

ShutupJens

"like cyclo-cross or f1"

That doesn't really sound like it's going to calm the s art down at all! Glad they're trying new ideas though, this will be one to watch

RichN95.

It should be like the old Le Mans starts. Make them run 50m to get to their bikes.

gsk82

Don't they realise that the very start of a road race isn't really that important? Are they expecting the gc riders to sprint to get to the first corner at the front?

RichN95.

gsk82 wrote:

Don't they realise that the very start of a road race isn't really that important? Are they expecting the gc riders to sprint to get to the first corner at the front?

It's a different type of stage though. Just 65km long with three major climbs. A definite chance to isolate GC riders with weak teams early on.

RonB

I would expect that Movistar & Sky will still dominate as they will probably have a number of riders each in the first group.

Is there a plan to have any adjustments for KOM points? Guessing no difference whatsoever

blazing_saddles

So, the flag goes down and presumably the front rank all adopt track stands....

Lanterne_Rogue

Sounds like another attempt to try and take GC teams out of their comfort zone by giving them new challenges to deal with. The risk is that it gets shut down by riders agreeing to neutralise it 'because of safety concerns', which often seems to be code for 'because somebody might lose a shedload of time, and it might be me'.

andyp

RichN95 wrote:

It should be like the old Le Mans starts. Make them run 50m to get to their bikes.

And, whilst they are waiting to start, swap the bikes around.

topper_harley

RichN95 wrote:

It should be like the old Le Mans starts. Make them run 50m to get to their bikes.

i'd pay to watch that

knedlicky

It's a bit like the Chase race in winter ski biathlon whereby in the Chase skiers set off with the time difference between them in the earlier Sprint event (basically a TT), so the winner of Sprint goes off first in the Chase, x secs ahead of second in the Sprint (x = winning margin in the Sprint). The Chase is thus a race with handicaps based on the Sprint=TT.

I've never taken to it in biathlon, because the Chase is a single stand-alone-race, and often gives an imbalanced advantage to those who did well in the Sprint, but as part of a 3-week long stage race rather than a separate event, I think it may be interesting.
It would be even more interesting if the riders were to set off with time gaps based on GC between each, and drafting allowed (as is allowed in the biathlon event).

ShutupJens

Bit of a blow for the injured/knackered who have to start at the back and avoid the cut off on what will be a very explosive stage

cougie

RichN95 wrote:

It should be like the old Le Mans starts. Make them run 50m to get to their bikes.

You should watch the Brompton races on the Mall at Ride London they do exactly this.

blazing_saddles

Topper harley wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

It should be like the old Le Mans starts. Make them run 50m to get to their bikes.

i'd pay to watch that

Froome has already practiced.

DeVlaeminck

What would add to this would be a radio blackout for 5 minutes.

RichN95.

cougie wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

It should be like the old Le Mans starts. Make them run 50m to get to their bikes.

You should watch the Brompton races on the Mall at Ride London they do exactly this.

I’d forgotten they do that. They have to unfold the bike too don’t they.

tailwindhome

Interestingly stage 16 is 218km.
Anyone who is struggling could be in serious trouble with this stage.

richa

How far apart are the going to start? Just lined up one-behind-the next in GC order?

The Peyresourde isn't really very narrow/steep/switchbacky - can't see this making much difference.

RichN95.

I'm not sure they're doing this to make the racing more exciting. I think they just feel that the usual neutralised start might not work for this stage - which is short and climbs immediately.

They'll also need to have a sensible time limit for the stage too as this short, GC racing from the gun stages don't fit into the usual formulas.

ShutupJens

RichA wrote:

How far apart are the going to start? Just lined up one-behind-the next in GC order?

The Peyresourde isn't really very narrow/steep/switchbacky - can't see this making much difference.

Sounds to be more like a grid system ie top 6 on the first row and then 7-12 on the 2nd row etc

I'm not sure how much of a difference it will actually make unless someone attacks from the gun - this was always going to be the case though right?

above_the_cows

Oooo will we get someone going into a ravine like Lil' Pete.

poppit

This explains it, could be interesting or a total non-event http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/tour-de-france-organisers-introduce-grid-style-start-short-stage-17-381929

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

I'm not sure they're doing this to make the racing more exciting. I think they just feel that the usual neutralised start might not work for this stage - which is short and climbs immediately.

They'll also need to have a sensible time limit for the stage too as this short, GC racing from the gun stages don't fit into the usual formulas.

They want people to tune in from kilometre zero for the gimmick, and stay for the racing.

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

I'm not sure they're doing this to make the racing more exciting. I think they just feel that the usual neutralised start might not work for this stage - which is short and climbs immediately.

They'll also need to have a sensible time limit for the stage too as this short, GC racing from the gun stages don't fit into the usual formulas.

They want people to tune in from kilometre zero for the gimmick, and stay for the racing.

It's a 65km stage. That's enough to watch the start anyway.

kingstongraham

So 5 zones. Top 20 line up in order, in offset rows. Rest sort themselves out within the appropriate zone.

There's some incentive for the key helper to stay in the top 20 on GC there, or at least in the top 50.

Should be fun.

larkim

It all depends how far back they're held in the 2nd and subsequent groups surely? Will the groups just be separated by 5m or so, and all set off at the same time? Or set off at short intervals (10s / 20s?) and force the later guys to chase on?

RonB

larkim wrote:

It all depends how far back they're held in the 2nd and subsequent groups surely? Will the groups just be separated by 5m or so, and all set off at the same time? Or set off at short intervals (10s / 20s?) and force the later guys to chase on?

Think the seperation is by distance and everyone sets off at the same time.

ShutupJens

So with Movistar bringing Quintana, Valv and Landa (and Soler?), would you drive it from the start and try and isolate the other contenders, or just start firing people up the road?