Too good to be true? IQ2 Power meter on Kickstarter - going to sell for as little as £130

barry_badrinath

I'm quite strongly tempted to take a punt on these guys - product looks good, and have exceeded their Kickstarter target in less than a day. Would need to see some data to really see if it's the real deal, but I am very tempted.... I know that the Limits one crashed and burned on after being on Kickstarter, as did the wearable one (Brim brothers?).
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/iq2-launches-kickstarter-cheapest-power-meter-yet-377554
DC Rainmaker first look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ5_3y2XEVo
Thoughts?

daniel_b

I've taken a punt - really early price all gone, but the next one up is available (Twin sided)

*Edit - just checked, and the next one up price is also fully subscribed now.

londoncommuter

Looks tempting but I thought it wasn't a huge discount so why not wait and see what the final retail price is and, if it does work, if it drags the price of other power meters down?

Would have been nice to get a bit more info on the the shorter spindles for pedals and the pricing as well Would you only be able to buy whole new pedals or just new spindles? If just the spindles, would they come with any special tools needed to replace?

barry_badrinath

It's a good point. Seen a lot of folk say that the Q factor could be an issue, 16mm I believe. I wonder if that would give me issues if I just bought a left hand side one.

daniel_b

Barry Badrinath wrote:

It's a good point. Seen a lot of folk say that the Q factor could be an issue, 16mm I believe. I wonder if that would give me issues if I just bought a left hand side one.

I could see how the q factor going out on one side could cause an issue, as then you are not centered.

But as q factor varies massively from bike to bike, I'm not convinced it is that much of an issue on a L/R setup - you may even be able to cancel some of it out, by intelligent cleat positioning.

TheGardenGnome

Always be wary with crowd sourced projects- there's no obligation to complete the task but I sure hope they can deliver but that's all I got for them.

I would've thought a power meter would simply need to mass sensor coupled with some timer alongside crank length information to calculate power. Trust someone having studied religion while at university to understand basic physics and gadgetry

nd using time information as well as length of crank arm come up with some figures.

mamil314

I believe they have engineering knack to pull this off and end up with a successful product, eventually. My thoughts:

1. Their goal was 88.000, which is surprisingly low amount for tooling and supplies for mass production of high precision gadget.
2. I believe using stainless steel instead of titanium for the adaptor would have been more durable long term and worth the minor penalty in weight and corrosion resistance.
3. I hope they will not be bought out by a big corp to eliminate competition so the power meter prices can remain ridiculously jacked up.
4. I will not pay them now to support the project, since they exceeded target amount; full retail cost will still be good value.

londoncommuter

mamil314 wrote:

I believe they have engineering knack to pull this off and end up with a successful product, eventually. My thoughts:

1. Their goal was 88.000, which is surprisingly low amount for tooling and supplies for mass production of high precision gadget.

4. I will not pay them now to support the project, since they exceeded target amount; full retail cost will still be good value.

I know nothing about this so feel free to rubbish my comments but it seems that most of these Kickstarter projects are for tiny amounts of unneeded money and really it's just about advertising and getting their profile raised (like Dragons Den when they just want to get free advertising on the BBC and don't really want the investment). Even Barfly were on one of the crowdfunding sites recently which is a bit bizarre.

Nothing wrong with any of that that and good luck to them. It does seem to create a buzz although that does go wrong if they don't deliver.

redvision

mamil314 wrote:

I hope they will not be bought out by a big corp to eliminate competition so the power meter prices can remain ridiculously jacked up.

Do you really think pm's are still too expensive?
You can get a 4iiii for £300 and dual sided pm from £650. Perhaps not cheap, but when you put in comparison to some gps devices costing in the region of £500, or when a pair of bike shoes can cost upwards of £300, i wouldn't say they are necessarily over priced.

I actually have concerns with the price drops over the last few years because there is no doubt as the prices have fallen so has reliability. I have had numerous different pm's fail, and, according to several retailers, power meters are the number 1 cycling product suffering failures/being returned for warranty repairs.

I guess it's always a good thing when a new company enters the market and challenges existing products with aggressive pricing, but from a personal pov i wish a company would shake things up by introducing an extremely well made and reliable pm.

cougie

Is it not a bit like the Limits power meter ?

I don't think the Q factor is anything to worry about.

PhilipPirrip

I read the dcrainmaker review as he has experience of being an early tester of these kickstarter PMs which more often that not fail to hit target dates and in some cases not making it to retail at all.

Whilst they're using a novel strain gauge they appear some way off actually having the device produce power data let alone achieve their stated accuracy. Ray's samples appear nothing more than mock ups and his requests for actual data didn't yield anything solid.

This sounds rather familiar of low cost power meters on kickstarters although Ray remains optomistic. It'll be worth keeping an eye on to see if they hit their targets.

joey54321

Daniel B wrote:

Barry Badrinath wrote:

But as q factor varies massively from bike to bike, I'm not convinced it is that much of an issue on a L/R setup - you may even be able to cancel some of it out, by intelligent cleat positioning.

It doesn't vary that much! Q factor is determined by crankset, not bike frame. Most manufacturers (Shimano, SRAM, Campag) keep the factor the same between different cranks. I think there is a small difference between BB30 and GXP/HTII but its pretty minor, and a much smaller different that proposed by IQ2.

However, they are apprently selling a shorter pedal spindle for shimano pedals to offset this, which would be a must for me to adopt them. As with all new powermeter tech, its lots of smoke and mirrors until you have something commercially released for several years, only then would I touch it.

daniel_b

Fair play Joey, I read this, and read to much into it

Since Limits came aboard, there’s been plenty of debates about q-factor (since that increased it as well). Most of these debates overlook the most basic thing: If you have multiple types of bikes, your q-factor already varies significantly. For example, a road bike has a q-factor generally of ~150mm, while a mountain bike has a q-factor of 170mm. Jump on that WattBike? It’s got a q-factor of 173 but the Atom is 160. But wait, your gym spin bike has a different q-factor, and that’ll vary by brands and models too. Schwinn’s AC Performance is 170mm, while Keiser’s M3 is 197mm. Thus, if you switch bikes – then things are already changing.

Though, IQ2 does seem to have an answer for this. They’re looking to simply produce/OEM pedal spindles for a few of the major brands, with a shorter length – thus putting you back to the original q-factor. They don’t have this ready for their Kickstarter campaign, but they did have some prototypes of it available when I visited them. Obviously, there could be downsides with this approach, but that’s probably a different discussion for a different day.

bigmat

Looks like it could be good, but I'd want to know that the shorter pedal spindles (for Look Keo in my case) would definitely be available. All at a very early stage at the moment and the proposed RRP doesn't seem that much higher than the required investment, so I'm out but will watch with interest.

daniel_b

BigMat wrote:

Looks like it could be good, but I'd want to know that the shorter pedal spindles (for Look Keo in my case) would definitely be available. All at a very early stage at the moment and the proposed RRP doesn't seem that much higher than the required investment, so I'm out but will watch with interest.

I'm a Look pedal devotee too.
My turbo bike has shimano, but has a built in power meter.

I could go shimano on my TT bike I guess, if need be.

darkhairedlord

Mechanical Precession of the outer thread pair will work against the inner and whole lot will come off when you least expect it...

matt_n-2

These seem to be gathering some pace now, with advertising being pushed through Instagram etc.

Read the DCR write up (not really a review) and it seems there is still a lack of data out there from IQ2.

daniel_b

This is what they have put on Kickstarter on Monday:

Our Test Data. Worth the wait!
Posted by Astrid (Collaborator)

Hi everyone,

Time to make everybody’s Monday a little better We’re proud and extremely ready to present our iQsquare power meter test data. The following data is based on a 20-minute outdoors bicycle ride.

Using the DCRainmaker.com data comparison tool, we’ve pitched our iQsquare test results against the Powertap and Stages power meters. iQsquare is the purple line, and as you can see, it falls neatly in between the accurate test results by both competitors.

In other words: the iQsquare power meter WORKS the way it should! Keep in mind that we’ve only been willing to share test data that comes directly from a ‘real’ power meter, meaning one that comes from our production line. So, what you are looking at here is exactly what you’ll receive at home.

Using the DCRainmaker.com paid comparison tool, our test data almost exactly matches the current power meters out there and takes the middle line. Using the DCRainmaker.com paid comparison tool, our test data almost exactly matches the current power meters out there and takes the middle line.
Here’s a closer look, again iQsquare is the purple line. The graph falls and rises equally according to the rhythm of the well-established Powertap and Stages power meters. Here’s a closer look, again iQsquare is the purple line. The graph falls and rises equally according to the rhythm of the well-established Powertap and Stages power meters.
Another close-up on a scale of tens of seconds. Again, our trajectory neatly follows expectations. Another close-up on a scale of tens of seconds. Again, our trajectory neatly follows expectations.


Happy Days
As cycling influencer Shane Miller, or (GPlama) put it last week: “If that [iQsquare] power meter does match the P1 pedals, it’s happy days. The P1s are a pretty good reference point for power.” Well Shane, we guess it’s happy days for our backers! Watch Miller’s YouTube coverage here bit.ly/2NxKOLs.

Just to add a personal note to this update…. Even though we were confident we could pull it off - thanks to our amazing partners, extensive preparations and most importantly your support - we just wanted to say how happy we are that it works. It’s a relief, a fulfilled promise… we couldn’t be happier at the moment.

Tell us your thoughts!

Kind regards,
Team iQsquare

Not sure if this will link through, but this has the graphs they are talking about:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1468298434/cycling-power-meter-at-a-breakthrough-price/posts/2284601?ref=backer_project_update

Make of it what you will.
I am a backer for the twin sided setup by the way.

fenix

Looks interesting.

I like Kickstarter - I've backed a few projects on it. You do have to have patience and be prepared for the whole thing to fail - but so far I've had good results. Some nice little products have been created.

matt_n-2

Cheers Dan, that's really good to see.

Hmm I'm really tempted now, just bought a TT bike and really want power on it. Not sure about the Q factor change though. There was talk of custom pedal axles to bring it back to normal. I use Speedplay too which has shorter axle options but not enough to close 16mm extra each side.

daniel_b

Fenix wrote:

Looks interesting.

I like Kickstarter - I've backed a few projects on it. You do have to have patience and be prepared for the whole thing to fail - but so far I've had good results. Some nice little products have been created.

Totally agree, as long as you accept it is a gamble/punt, I think it's a good opportunity.
I'm also waiting for the orb water bottle light things.

Matt_N wrote:

Cheers Dan, that's really good to see.

Hmm I'm really tempted now, just bought a TT bike and really want power on it. Not sure about the Q factor change though. There was talk of custom pedal axles to bring it back to normal. I use Speedplay too which has shorter axle options but not enough to close 16mm extra each side.

They did say they were offering modified Shimano pedals, but Shimano got wind and put a stop to that.
I'm a Look user anyway tbh, but will be interested to see how these come out, and whether the q factor does cause an issue.
I have a TT bike I still have to build, so they may end up on that.
Could be good tech to travel with too, ie for hire bikes etc.

mamil314

That shop seems to be purely engineers with amateurish marketing and no PR nous, what with advertising unreadable low res charts and selling modified Shimano parts without permission.

cougie

Q factor is a red herring. Nobody notices when you swap from road to MTB or vice versa.

daniel_b

quote="mamil314"]That shop seems to be purely engineers with amateurish marketing and no PR nous, what with advertising unreadable low res charts and selling modified Shimano parts without permission.[/quote]

I'd rather it was that way around than the reverse

cougie wrote:

Q factor is a red herring. Nobody notices when you swap from road to MTB or vice versa.

I'm hoping that is indeed the case.

People disagree on it a lot though.

Fair to say, depending on the combination of bike and individual, it may, or may not, be an issue.

Diverbuzz

Latest update is that they start shipping on the 29th of November.

chris_bass

i'm quite tempted to give these a go, but 16mm added either side isn't insignificant, that's the only thing holding me back at the moment.

I get Q factor may not be a big issue but 30mm extra overall is quite a lot

cougie

Do you get on a mountain bike and notice it though ?

chris_bass

cougie wrote:

Do you get on a mountain bike and notice it though ?

the first question you should have asked was do I get on a mountain bike!!

If I moved my cleats by 16mm on each shoe i'm sure i'd notice it and my knees would fall apart (probably!)

ridgeway_swiss

Seems they have delayed 1st shipments to Jan now (was 29th Nov) not a big surprise in any Kickstarter product. Overall still looking like an interesting product and now that the other entry level Power meter from Watteam is no more then i guess they'll have an open field at that price range.

backo

Has anyone received their power meter yet? I’m in the market for one and have been waiting for these to launch

chris_bass

backo wrote:

Has anyone received their power meter yet? I’m in the market for one and have been waiting for these to launch

I wouldn't hold your breath, although I did find this:

https://forum.trainerroad.com/t/iq2-power-meter/4222/34

which says:

Someone from the Internets wrote:

I wrote to them to inquire whether they were able to project delivery time for folks and go this back:

"Hi Hugh,

Thank you for the support and interest. As of the moment, we have already concluded our crowdfunding campaign and have entered the late stages of production. All of the power meters ordered through our webshop are expected to be delivered as early as March of 2019 onward. Those who backed us at Kickstarter and Indiegogo will have theirs delivered as early as February 2019.

At this moment though we do not have a list of the batches of power meters to be delivered in order.

Thank you,

Kenneth Perry
Customer Care Specialist"