BMI and obesity

rick_chasey

BMI of 20.

Fat percentage: 14%

Waist-height ratio: 45.2

surfercyclist

The latest way apparently is to make sure your waist is less than half your height. So, grab a piece of string and use it to measure your height. Fold it in half and as long as it goes around your middle you're OK(hopefully).

Example here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health ... tists.html

rick_chasey

Unless you're a trackie, it'll be pretty rare to see a fast cyclist with a high BMI. Regardless of body composition.

It's a pretty good guide, and you need to be fairly extreme on the muscle front to be so way out that it doesn't apply to you.

Chances are, if your BMI is high, you're a bit of a fatty.

slowbike

philthy3 wrote:

Wheelspinner wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

... Muscle weighs the same as fat, but takes up less space in the body...

Eh?

Think you should have paid more attention in school when the concepts of mass, weight and density were being discussed.

Try sticking that in your search bar. The same weight in muscle takes up less room in the body.

A pound of muscle weighs the same as a pound of fat. But the body fat is more "fluffy" and the muscle is more "dense and compact." Muscles take up less space in your body, so body weight may go up as you add compact, tight muscle mass.

Well - if you're going to put it like that ... a pound of feathers weighs the same as a pound of lead.... but you'd never say "Feathers weigh the same as Lead" - because it's generally accepted that when talking about comparing weights you're assuming others variables are at least similar.

Quick google search suggests Fat weights 0.9g per ml and muscle weighs 1.06g/ml - I assume there's no absolute answer for those, but every answer you get correlates that, for the same volume, muscle weighs more than fat.

philthy3 wrote:

People should not get hung up on BMI and use two or more methods to gauge whether they are overweight or not.

Quite frankly - most people know if they're overweight without even having to get on the scales or measure anything with anything more than just our eyes ....

drlodge

As has been said by others, BMI is a very crude indicator of weight and even a more crude indicator of health. It doesn't tell you if you're overweight, simply indicates if you might be.

veronese68

drlodge wrote:

As has been said by others, BMI is a very crude indicator of weight and even a more crude indicator of health. It doesn't tell you if you're overweight, simply indicates if you might be.

Exactly, so going on from this presumably if your BMI indicates their may be a problem you should think about things a little more. The thinking could be a case of working why the figures are what they are, not necessarily a lifestyle change.
Anyway with a BMI of 23.5 at 50 years old I'm not too worried, but should lose a bit off the belly and redistribute it a little.

drlodge

Veronese68 wrote:

Exactly, so going on from this presumably if your BMI indicates their may be a problem you should think about things a little more. The thinking could be a case of working why the figures are what they are, not necessarily a lifestyle change.
Anyway with a BMI of 23.5 at 50 years old I'm not too worried, but should lose a bit off the belly and redistribute it a little.

Yes, quite. My BMI is a smidge over 25 also at age 50, so I ponder as to why that is, how much fat I'm carrying, can I afford to lose a bit (yes) and should I watch what I eat a it more (yes). Not blindly panicking!

mrfpb

The thing is, as my weight crept up from 70kg to 82kg over the course of ten years I didn't notice how I was getting less fit and more fat. I didn't use BMI or any other tools, I just felt similar day to day.

It was only when I burst the buttons on a pair of trousers that I hadn't worn for a while that I realised there was an issue!

Having lost weight I'm now 70kg again but have a fat belly that I didn't have before, so the waist/height ratio is a more useful guide for future use.

One indication of fitness is that I recently overtook someone on a Parkrun 2nd lap. He was puffing and panting and really making the effort to finish strong. I suddenly realised "I don't do that anymore!" my breathing and heart were managing the effort much better than they used to.

ademort

Have to admit i,m bloody sick of this BMI nonsense. I,ve always been very well built. I,m 5ft 7 ins and 84Kgs at my best. Which puts me on borderline obese. I challenge anyone to say i,m obese when they see my physique in the swimming pool. A few years ago aged 52 i took part in a charity event riding 6 times up Alpe D,huez with a time limit. I did the 6 times and was the only 1 of the 48 members of our team who did manage 6 times. So for me there are exeptions to the rule and BMI may be a guide but thats all it is.

bigmitch41

Your BMI is 21.8 which is in the healthy category

Your BMI is lower than the average of 28.7 for a man in your age group (45-54) in England.

About 78% of men in your age group in England are overweight, obese or very obese.

BMI is just a gauge, but its a pretty accurate one in my opinion. Waist circumference would be the best measure to go by also.

keef66

Those are the worrying statistics, that 75% of people in a particular age category are overweight or worse. The NHS is failing to cope with the burden of a weight related disease complex of epic proportions, and there's no danger of the government doing anything about it beyond the half-arsed sugar tax which the likes of Pepsico have already avoided by tweaking their still sugary products.

Things aren't going to change without radical action on many fronts. Fast food and drink needs to be made a lot healthier and less calorie dense, and it shouldn't be available anywhere near schools. Proper infrastructure to encourage walking and cycling. Teaching kids properly about food, nutrition, health and exercise in school. Maybe include growing veg and preparing food from fresh, natural ingredients? Proper funding of practical, up to date nutritional advice / preventive health programs / community support / mental health services. And a lot more research into the psychology of weight and overeating, gut microbes and pro- and pre- biotics. Beyond sumo wrestlers, I can't imagine many people deliberately set out to become morbidly obese, but many now do. Why?? It's not a good look, and in a society that's become so self- obsessed and constantly posting pouty selfies on social media, why are three quarters of the population still overeating to the point it's affecting their health / mobility / life expectancy?

For a supposedly intelligent species we seem hell-bent on self-harm.

drlodge

The problem is, that the average person is actually quite stupid. And then you realise that half the population are more stupid than that.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

There's a good reason why age expectancy in the UK is now falling, too many Calories and not enough exercise, in these modern days of the rat race and convenience.

I was one of them, two years ago I was ~95Kg, having steadily put on weight after my lower back injury in 2008. I put on ~2Kg over the extended winter we just had, but having started cycling for fitness in January 2017, I feel like a far fitter ~77Kg MAMIL these days.

TheGardenGnome

drlodge wrote:

The problem is, that the average person is actually quite stupid. And then you realise that half the population are more stupid than that.

I can't complain: stopping fish and chip shops operating at 2-5 near schools has had a positive impact on my small store. I can sell all the choccos, and pies and my pockets are being lined as some poor scrote is stuffing his little face because the local chippy is closed. And as for the sugar tax on drinks: sweets and doughnuts are still flying off shelves.

sloppyschleckonds

drlodge wrote:

The problem is, that the average person is actually quite stupid. And then you realise that half the population are more stupid than that.

veronese68

drlodge wrote:

The problem is, that the average person is actually quite stupid. And then you realise that half the population are more stupid than that.

Are you talking mean, mode or median?
I used to say to my kids to think how stupid the average person is and bear in mind that half the people they meet would be stupider than that. It served as a sobering reminder that they would often be dealing with idiots.

drlodge

Veronese68 wrote:

Are you talking mean, mode or median?
I used to say to my kids to think how stupid the average person is and bear in mind that half the people they meet would be stupider than that. It served as a sobering reminder that they would often be dealing with idiots.

Of course the one thing most people really hate is a smartar$e

StillGoing

NitrousOxide wrote:

There's a good reason why age expectancy in the UK is now falling, .

I'm not aware it is. Life expectancy is rising from the reports I've read. Your average 60 year old is more like a 40 year old these days. Admittedly, the morbidly obese aren't doing themselves any favours, but appearances can be deceptive. Someone looking for all intents and purposes to be about right body shape wise, can be carrying excessive visceral fat around their internal organs leading to an early demise or health problems.

keef66

drlodge wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Are you talking mean, mode or median?
I used to say to my kids to think how stupid the average person is and bear in mind that half the people they meet would be stupider than that. It served as a sobering reminder that they would often be dealing with idiots.

Of course the one thing most people really hate is a smartar$e

Closely followed by somebody telling them to eat healthily, lose weight, stop smoking, exercise more.

Especially if that person is clearly not following their own advice. On Tuesday morning I had my 6 monthly MOT at the quacks. Mainly for blood pressure, which is now fine, and an apparently healthy BMI, but the Dr noticed that my weight was significantly lower than when they'd last done it back in 2012. I explained that I'd realised my weight had slowly crept up in Middle age, but I'd got it back under control partly with exercise, but mainly by 5:2 eating which I now do all the time. But having this conversation felt a bit weird because she, I'm guessing in her early 30s, is massively overweight. Maybe it says more about me than her, but I struggled to look her in the eye...

keef66

philthy3 wrote:

NitrousOxide wrote:

There's a good reason why age expectancy in the UK is now falling, .

I'm not aware it is. Life expectancy is rising from the reports I've read. Your average 60 year old is more like a 40 year old these days. Admittedly, the morbidly obese aren't doing themselves any favours, but appearances can be deceptive. Someone looking for all intents and purposes to be about right body shape wise, can be carrying excessive visceral fat around their internal organs leading to an early demise or health problems.

I think it is in the USA. Mind you, some of that must be due to lead poisoning...

I'm your average 60 year old. I do in fact feel like a 40 year old, but she's not interested and if my wife finds out my life expectancy will be falling too

veronese68

drlodge wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Are you talking mean, mode or median?
I used to say to my kids to think how stupid the average person is and bear in mind that half the people they meet would be stupider than that. It served as a sobering reminder that they would often be dealing with idiots.

Of course the one thing most people really hate is a smartar$e

Very true, but I feel I should stick to what I'm good at.
You'll be happy to hear my kids take after me in that respect, can't imagine why, so I get it back twice over.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

philthy3 wrote:

NitrousOxide wrote:

There's a good reason why age expectancy in the UK is now falling, .

I'm not aware it is. Life expectancy is rising from the reports I've read. Your average 60 year old is more like a 40 year old these days. Admittedly, the morbidly obese aren't doing themselves any favours, but appearances can be deceptive. Someone looking for all intents and purposes to be about right body shape wise, can be carrying excessive visceral fat around their internal organs leading to an early demise or health problems.

Not easy to find the article that lead me to believe UK life expectancy is falling right now, but best I can quickly find is https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 64171.html

StillGoing

NitrousOxide wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

NitrousOxide wrote:

There's a good reason why age expectancy in the UK is now falling, .

I'm not aware it is. Life expectancy is rising from the reports I've read. Your average 60 year old is more like a 40 year old these days. Admittedly, the morbidly obese aren't doing themselves any favours, but appearances can be deceptive. Someone looking for all intents and purposes to be about right body shape wise, can be carrying excessive visceral fat around their internal organs leading to an early demise or health problems.

Not easy to find the article that lead me to believe UK life expectancy is falling right now, but best I can quickly find is https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 64171.html

Ahh the Independent, that bastion of myth and conjecture. The NHS report clearly states that life expectancy in the UK is rising.

https://www.nhs.uk/news/medical-practic ... s-by-2030/

The Independant reports on parts of the UK having a lower life expectancy, no doubt trying to enforce its belief that austerity is killing babies, the poor and immigrants. But, for the period the study was made, recording the ages of deaths in the UK, we had Gulf War 1 & 2, Libya and Afghanistan, where wounded service personnel were flown back to the UK. Many of them died here when treatment failed. Many have taken their own lives and sadly suicide from the trauma of PTSD continues to this day. You also have the influx of "asylum" seekers in poor health in that period. We've had several major terrorist incidents too where plenty of young lives were lost. Lets also not forget that the 60's and 70's were times of promoting smoking as a pleasurable pastime, so plenty of people around now will be curling their toes up in this age from the effects of sucking a load of tar into their body.

mrfpb

philthy3 wrote:

NitrousOxide wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

NitrousOxide wrote:

There's a good reason why age expectancy in the UK is now falling, .

I'm not aware it is. Life expectancy is rising from the reports I've read. Your average 60 year old is more like a 40 year old these days. Admittedly, the morbidly obese aren't doing themselves any favours, but appearances can be deceptive. Someone looking for all intents and purposes to be about right body shape wise, can be carrying excessive visceral fat around their internal organs leading to an early demise or health problems.

Not easy to find the article that lead me to believe UK life expectancy is falling right now, but best I can quickly find is https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 64171.html

Ahh the Independent, that bastion of myth and conjecture. The NHS report clearly states that life expectancy in the UK is rising.

https://www.nhs.uk/news/medical-practic ... s-by-2030/

The Independant reports on parts of the UK having a lower life expectancy, no doubt trying to enforce its belief that austerity is killing babies, the poor and immigrants. But, for the period the study was made, recording the ages of deaths in the UK, we had Gulf War 1 & 2, Libya and Afghanistan, where wounded service personnel were flown back to the UK. Many of them died here when treatment failed. Many have taken their own lives and sadly suicide from the trauma of PTSD continues to this day. You also have the influx of "asylum" seekers in poor health in that period. We've had several major terrorist incidents too where plenty of young lives were lost. Lets also not forget that the 60's and 70's were times of promoting smoking as a pleasurable pastime, so plenty of people around now will be curling their toes up in this age from the effects of sucking a load of tar into their body.

Clutching at straws now, P3. Blaming the four horsemen of the apocalypse for life expectancy. There has been no more war, terrorism, immigration, in the last 10-15 year compared to the heyday of the Troubles in Northern Ireland and the peaks of immigration from the commonwealth - which included some of the developed wold with lowest life expectancy.
What % of the population are in the armed forces? what % of the population are immigrants? Not enough to significantly impact life expectancy statistics.

However there has been massive deregulation in food advertising since the 1980's. There is a clear correlation in the incidence of childhood obesity in a country and the ability of food companies to advertise to children.

drlodge

I blame it on post modernism and neo Marxism. Now you lot, go tidy your room.

sloppyschleckonds

P3 wins the thread with the overload of 'whataboutery'

keef66

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... s-of-death

Hmm. No mention of terrorism, suicide, PTSD, or immigration as a leading causes of death in the UK...

StillGoing

keef66 wrote:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-profile-for-england/chapter-2-major-causes-of-death-and-how-they-have-changed#trends-in-leading-causes-of-death

Hmm. No mention of terrorism, suicide, PTSD, or immigration as a leading causes of death in the UK...

Death from secondary causes is often attributed as the cause of death. Someone admitted with trauma injury may die as a consequence of organ failure. Cause of death won't be recorded as stabbing or asphyxia etc, but organ failure. Without access to individual case files, how can any public body be accurate as to whether deaths were as a result of poor health or brought about by outside events. We almost all die of heart failure when the heart eventually gives up. When I had anaphylaxis, the body shutting down was putting strain on the heart to eventually reach the point where I would have had a heart attack without the emergency medical intervention. My death certificate would have said heart failure.

The heat of the NI problem was late 60's and the 70's. Deaths in NI tailed off in the 80's and 90's to almost unheard of in the millennium and onwards.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

mrfpb

Getting way off the point now, aren't we.

To summarise, BMI as an indicator of excessive weight works for 99% of the population, the waist to height ratio, or even waist size itself are a second indicator for a large chunk of the other 1%. Both these tests can be done by most people in their own homes with a weighing scales and a tape measure or a piece of string. There are no more reliable tests that people can do in their own homes without obtaining more specialised (expensive) equipment.

Chunky athletes might have a high BMI for reasons other than carrying excess fat. But they usually have access to other means of measuring fitness (eg VO2 max).

Terrorism, war and PTSD account for only a tiny proportion of the annual deaths in the UK and there is no proof that this has increased or decreased over the last three decades. There is a growing body of evidence that obesity is causing life limiting illnesses such as diabetes and heart disease.

However people with a high BMI are stilling willing to protest that it is rubbish and should be ignored.

Have I missed any pertinent points?