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BMI and obesity

OrkneyladOrkneylad Posts: 104
BMI and obesity: Where are you on the UK fat scale?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43697948

BMI 24.7, at 49 that puts me in the '23% Healthy' Scot males apparently. . . getting my old engineering calipers out, my BFI calculation (http://www.linear-software.com/online.html)is currently 11.15 . . . rather chuffed!

I imagine many of you can do better. :D
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  • mrfpbmrfpb Posts: 4,451
    BMI 24 at age 50. Puts me in the healthy 22% of English males for my age. Yet I still have a fat belly.
    Never tried any caliper measurements, but the fat is there for all to see (when in mamil mode). I need a fat burning/cholesterol reducing regime now that my weight is down. I'll watch the show tomorrow and see what the latest science says.
  • joey54321joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    I'm overweight :-( I already knew this though. It's not all fat either...I'm just...heavy. I try to explain this is an issue for cycling to non-cycling friends and they just say 'but your so slim'
  • sh3psh3p Posts: 98
    50 years old weight 66kg bmi 21 And 12% body fat according to my scales, no idea how accurate they are but the numbers have consistantly gone down over the last 12months, had to cut out the beer for a couple of months to loose the last pound or so..
  • I've gone from 29.7 at 54 to 22.1 at 57. The nurse at a routine check up told me I was virtually obese and that was the spur I needed. Don't eat so much rubbish anymore (biscuits and Pot Noodles were generally lunch) and in the last 18 months have been back on the bike after 16 years away.
  • tlw1tlw1 Posts: 18,346
    joey54321 wrote:
    I'm overweight :-( I already knew this though. It's not all fat either...I'm just...heavy. I try to explain this is an issue for cycling to non-cycling friends and they just say 'but your so slim'
    Yep, me too, got weighed at the doctors once and he said ‘your heavy boned’

    Still could loose some belly though
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    BMI is outdated. BMI is inaccurate. Would anyone have said that Jonah Lomu was overweight? His BMI would have. For a more accurate assessment of your weight, take the measurement of your waist (your proper waist and not where your jeans hang) and compare it against your height. If your waist measurement when doubled, is more than your height, you're overweight.

    https://www.health-calc.com/body-compos ... ight-ratio

    http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/3/e010 ... _TrendMD-0
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    How many people are built like Jonah Lomu though ?

    It's just a guide.
  • mrfpbmrfpb Posts: 4,451
    edited April 2018
    cougie wrote:
    How many people are built like Jonah Lomu though ?

    It's just a guide.

    Around 1% of the population, apparently. So BMI is a useful measure for 99%, if measured properly. The waistline meausure can act as a second step.
    As I said I have "healthy BMI" but a fat belly so BMI isn't the whole story. I also have high cholesterol. But BMI and waistline are a lot easier and quicker to measure as the first steps in a health assessment.

    The whole "athlete" argument against BMI is just a form of denial.
  • OrkneyladOrkneylad Posts: 104
    philthy3 wrote:
    BMI is outdated. BMI is inaccurate. Would anyone have said that Jonah Lomu was overweight? His BMI would have. For a more accurate assessment of your weight, take the measurement of your waist (your proper waist and not where your jeans hang) and compare it against your height. If your waist measurement when doubled, is more than your height, you're overweight.

    https://www.health-calc.com/body-compos ... ight-ratio

    http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/3/e010 ... _TrendMD-0

    hmm well perhaps the excessively muscle-bound ARE really overweight also, not just the folks investing in fat deposits?
    He did have a heart attack, let's remember.

    Great player though!
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    mrfpb wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    How many people are built like Jonah Lomu though ?

    It's just a guide.

    Around 1% of the population, apparently. So BMI is a useful measure for 99%, if measured properly. The waistline meausure can act as a second step.
    As I said I have "healthy BMI" but a fat belly so BMI isn't the whole story. I also have high cholesterol. But BMI and waistline are a lot easier and quicker to measure as the first steps in a health assessment.

    The whole "athlete" argument against BMI is just a form of denial.

    BMI is an inaccurate method of weight and health assessment when all it considers is your height v weight. The example of Jonah Lomu was just an example and anyone can be susceptible to a heart attack and you will never know if you're going to have one until it happens. Muscle weighs the same as fat, but takes up less space in the body. Therefore, someone who is muscularly built like a lot of sports athletess, will have a normal body shape, but on a BMI scale, be overweight or even obese. A person of the same weight but full of fat, will be rightly classed as overweight/obese in comparison and look it.

    "THE BMI LIE
    Traditional criteria for obesity and obesity-associated health risks are calculated using the body mass index (BMI). These guidelines are faulty and wildly inaccurate. BMI is calculated from a person's height and weight, defined as mass in kilograms divided by height in meters squared. In no way does BMI calculate a person's body fat directly.2


    Imagine a man who is 5-foot-9 and weighs 260 pounds. At that height and weight, the man would have a BMI greater than 40, placing him in the third and most severe tier of obesity. What the BMI doesn't tell you is that this man could be a professional bodybuilder on stage at the Olympia. He has low body fat and has a lean mass percentage bigger than you or I could even imagine. This BMI error doesn't occur only in professional bodybuilders . Well-muscled people are often given higher BMIs and the subsequent "medical" diagnosis of being overweight or obese.

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and health care organizations use BMI to assess individuals because it is inexpensive and easy to calculate,2 not because it is the most effective method to predict true body composition or health risks. Diagnosing a person as obese or overweight should come from the percentage of fat mass and muscle mass a person has. It's a much more accurate and effective way to measure health risk."
    Bodybnuilding.com

    http://paleozonenutrition.com/2012/04/2 ... t-weights/
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • I'm at 37, not as high as my original 44 though so there's some good news...

    Never been taken in by the athlete excuse for BMI being invalid. It's a generalised tool that for its simplicity does well for the average person- medical professionals are not idiots and BMI ain't going anywhere. I'll be one of those not in denial that I'm a fat blob. All my fault as well.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    Never been taken in by the athlete excuse for BMI being invalid. It's a generalised tool that for its simplicity does well for the average person- medical professionals are not idiots and BMI ain't going anywhere. .

    There are plenty of medical journals out there that pooh-pooh BMI as an accurate indicator of a persons health or weight for their height. It is still used simply because it is cheap to use as an assessment of a persons health. What Doctors fail to do, is then measure whether the persons body mass is lean mass or fat mass. Instead they just mark them down as overweight or obese. A pro RU player from where I am had to go for knee surgery, but was refused because the nurse taking his weight measurements marked him down as obese. The view being taken that his excess weight was causing his problems. He wasn't the weight he was because of fat mass, but because of lean mass and was made to lose it before they'd operate. The resultant loss of lean muscle lost him his place in the starting line up after surgery.

    https://journals.lww.com/nutritiontoday ... h_A.5.aspx
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,069
    cougie wrote:
    How many people are built like Jonah Lomu though ?

    It's just a guide.


    ...and Jona Lomu died young anyway.. maybe would have lived longer with a lower BMI (and arguably fewer drugs)
  • WheelspinnerWheelspinner Posts: 4,780
    philthy3 wrote:
    ... Muscle weighs the same as fat, but takes up less space in the body...
    Eh?

    Think you should have paid more attention in school when the concepts of mass, weight and density were being discussed.
  • OrkneyladOrkneylad Posts: 104
    There's a fairly strong statistical association with long term steroid use and heart disease. Professional bodybuilders have increased mortality rates mostly due to heart failure and kidneys/liver problems. Do many rugger players 'assist' their muscle-mass gains with additives? Probably. Either way (fat or muscle) you end up with a high BMI and associated risks.
  • philthy3 wrote:
    There are plenty of medical journals out there that pooh-pooh BMI as an accurate indicator of a persons health or weight for their height.
    That's nice.
  • tonysjtonysj Posts: 326
    Well by those stats I'm overweight.... Im 25.4 OK only just into OW. Buy I don't think I am.
    Male,55yrs, 5' 9-1/2" weight 12 stone 4 lb.
    I think the figures are slightly wrong....
  • mrfpbmrfpb Posts: 4,451
    tonysj wrote:
    Well by those stats I'm overweight.... Im 25.4 OK only just into OW. Buy I don't think I am.
    Male,55yrs, 5' 9-1/2" weight 12 stone 4 lb.
    I think the figures are slightly wrong....

    So why not try waist to height ratio or just waist size to see if your high BMI is due to abdominal fat. As advised in the originally linked questionaire. The waist size of your trousers is not the measurement by the way. Its halfway between hips and ribs.

    Alternatively put on the tightest lycra outfit you own and look at your side-on profile in the mirror. I find thats a giveaway for me. :D
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    cougie wrote:
    How many people are built like Jonah Lomu though ?

    It's just a guide.


    ...and Jona Lomu died young anyway.. maybe would have lived longer with a lower BMI (and arguably fewer drugs)

    And you base that on what evidence Ugo or are you just speculating?
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    philthy3 wrote:
    ... Muscle weighs the same as fat, but takes up less space in the body...
    Eh?

    Think you should have paid more attention in school when the concepts of mass, weight and density were being discussed.

    Try sticking that in your search bar. The same weight in muscle takes up less room in the body.

    A pound of muscle weighs the same as a pound of fat. But the body fat is more "fluffy" and the muscle is more "dense and compact." Muscles take up less space in your body, so body weight may go up as you add compact, tight muscle mass.

    g7N0FWI.jpg

    People should not get hung up on BMI and use two or more methods to gauge whether they are overweight or not.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • If you're Joe average and need a quick idea where you are, doesn't matter. If you want accuracy or are an athlete, you can go for the floater thingy, endof.
  • tonysjtonysj Posts: 326
    mrfpb wrote:
    tonysj wrote:
    Well by those stats I'm overweight.... Im 25.4 OK only just into OW. Buy I don't think I am.
    Male,55yrs, 5' 9-1/2" weight 12 stone 4 lb.
    I think the figures are slightly wrong....

    So why not try waist to height ratio or just waist size to see if your high BMI is due to abdominal fat. As advised in the originally linked questionaire. The waist size of your trousers is not the measurement by the way. Its halfway between hips and ribs.

    Well just done this waist x 2 height measurment and again its borderline.
    Waist 35" X 2 = 70" and I'm 5' 9- 1/2" so 69-1/2" say 70" but thats after a good meal out earlier :D

    Im happy Im not overweight...
  • mrfpbmrfpb Posts: 4,451
    If you're Joe average and need a quick idea where you are, doesn't matter. If you want accuracy or are an athlete, you can go for the floater thingy, endof.

    That's the point, you need more specialist equipment to actually measure body fat and VO2 max (the more representative indicators of health) but BMI and waist/height can be measured by most people with a scales, tape measure and pocket calculator, and is accurate for 99% of the population. I don't see philthy3 (or my GP & practice nurse) advising on any other more reliable methods to use as a starting point at home.
  • Telling me my BMI is 20 which is the lower end of healthy according to that.

    Never really looked at my BMI before. Apparently 69% of men in my age group are overweight.
  • It isn't just bodybuilders and rugby players who may be diagnosed as overweight or obese, pretty much anyone who has a greater than average amount of his muscle is likely to have a high BMI. I have raced canoe slalom for most of my adult life, and have always ridden a bike, and although I have spent little time in the gym and was never a full-time athlete (and certainly have never taken any supplements or steroids) I still have a healthy amount of muscle. My BMI was 26 at one point when measured by the practice nurse who told me that I was borderline overweight, but no-one who ever met me would ever say I was overweight. It's dropped a little recently probably as a result of riding my bike more and paddling my canoe less, but it is still 24.

    So if BMI works for the average person it is only because the average person is relatively inactive and doesn't have enough muscle.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,069
    philthy3 wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    How many people are built like Jonah Lomu though ?

    It's just a guide.


    ...and Jona Lomu died young anyway.. maybe would have lived longer with a lower BMI (and arguably fewer drugs)

    And you base that on what evidence Ugo or are you just speculating?

    Which part?
    There is never any evidence that professional sportmen deaths might be related to what they do... it is indeed speculation. Speculation is what forums are all about. If everything had to be based on evidence, there woulnd't be a need for discussion, as evidence should be self explanatory.

    Lomu suffered from kidney failure which ended his career, if I recall correctly.
    His size (around 140 kg) and his speed (under 11 s for 100 mt flat) were incompatible, to most people who understand athletics. Being able to accelerate that kind of mass so quickly was "unlikely" to be something achievable with training only.
    His mass was roughly 70-80% higher than the average track and field sprinter.

    From there you can start speculating... I am sure the widespread use of steroids in professional rugby doesn't come as a surprise to anyone
  • 3wheeler3wheeler Posts: 110
    It isn't just bodybuilders and rugby players who may be diagnosed as overweight or obese, pretty much anyone who has a greater than average amount of his muscle is likely to have a high BMI. I have raced canoe slalom for most of my adult life, and have always ridden a bike, and although I have spent little time in the gym and was never a full-time athlete (and certainly have never taken any supplements or steroids) I still have a healthy amount of muscle. My BMI was 26 at one point when measured by the practice nurse who told me that I was borderline overweight, but no-one who ever met me would ever say I was overweight. It's dropped a little recently probably as a result of riding my bike more and paddling my canoe less, but it is still 24.

    So if BMI works for the average person it is only because the average person is relatively inactive and doesn't have enough muscle.

    BMI is only a rough gauge and something so simple won't be accurate for everyone, but for most of the population if BMI says you're obese you probably are. There's plenty of room in the BMI range for healthy people to have muscle on not be classed as obese and I'm sure there's lots of muscly people who also have too much fat. If you're in the top 1% of people with lots of muscle and ok fat you probably already understand the effects of diet and exercise and aren't the target audience of BMI in any case.
  • Steve974Steve974 Posts: 4
    68 yrs old and 5'11" with a 34" waist - according to the BMI thingy that makes me overweight at 85kgs .

    I've been down as low as 79kgs before and just couldn't function properly, permanently tired. But I'll see if I can get down to 81kgs, that'll just get me into the top end of 'Healthy' :)

    Hopefully the weather will soon be a bit nicer and I can get out on the bike more often...
  • joey54321joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    BMI is wrong or bad, it just only tells part of the story. All it is is a ratio of height to mass. Nothing more. I can't tell you if that is healthy or if its muscle Vs fat.

    What it can tell you (among other things) is that if you are trying to compete at a sport that is heavily dependent on a good power to weight, you might struggle if you have a high BMI.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    60 and healthy at 5'6" and 65kg thanks to cycling and 5:2 eating.

    My wake up call came when I spotted myself in the background of a photo taken on a company jaunt. We were mountain biking in Tenerife, and I was standing relaxed, and side-on in lycra. I thought who is that little fat fcucker at the back? Then with horror I realised it was me :shock:

    My weight had crept up to nearly 72kg and I was looking a bit like Capt Mainwaring, despite not having any obvious wobbly subcutaneous fat. The fact that I was then able to lose 8kg fairly easily (by 5:2 eating) confirmed to me that most of it must have been visceral abdominal fat. Amazing just how much the body can pack in when you're slightly over-eating all the time.

    For 99% of the population a high BMI means they are too fat.

    But to be honest, they probably knew they were too fat before a health professional told them.
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