Amstel gold race 2018 *SPOILERS*

blazing_saddles

Sun Dodger wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

A very dull race for the most part. A good pick to be out for lunch.
A bit of action on the new circuit, but any selection that has both Valverde and Sagan in it is going to have a lot of wheel following and is therefore likely to end a "B" list podium.
Some odd tactics from a couple of teams, too.

So, the favorites end up in the final selection, then get worked over, and you aren't happy?

You can't please all the people, all the time....

Am I not allowed to have a different opinion?
Unlike you, I was very pleased with the cobbled races.
Each to his own.

Sun Dodger

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Sun Dodger wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

A very dull race for the most part. A good pick to be out for lunch.
A bit of action on the new circuit, but any selection that has both Valverde and Sagan in it is going to have a lot of wheel following and is therefore likely to end a "B" list podium.
Some odd tactics from a couple of teams, too.

So, the favorites end up in the final selection, then get worked over, and you aren't happy?

You can't please all the people, all the time....

Am I not allowed to have a different opinion?
Unlike you, I was very pleased with the cobbled races.
Each to his own.

Of course you can have a different opinion. I happen to think it is wrong. My view is that Amstel was a better race than the last two Sundays.

rick_chasey

Sun Dodger wrote:

Of course you can have a different opinion. I happen to think it is wrong. My view is that Amstel was a better race than the last two Sundays.

I'm pretty parochial about this kinda thing, but really?

D'ya mind articulating why you think that? Curious.

Sun Dodger

Rick Chasey wrote:

Sun Dodger wrote:

Of course you can have a different opinion. I happen to think it is wrong. My view is that Amstel was a better race than the last two Sundays.

I'm pretty parochial about this kinda thing, but really?

D'ya mind articulating why you think that? Curious.

Sure - PR and Flanders were both over before the 20k board flashed by. Amstel was in the balance for much longer - along with a main group with Sagan in (and you'd never think he'd be there) that gave a really interesting dynamic to the final selection.

andyp

mididoctors wrote:

3rd monument in a row where survivors of the first break of the day are factors in the finale.

Can't believe everyone let this go.

The Amstel Gold is not a monument.

rick_chasey

Sun Dodger wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Sun Dodger wrote:

Of course you can have a different opinion. I happen to think it is wrong. My view is that Amstel was a better race than the last two Sundays.

I'm pretty parochial about this kinda thing, but really?

D'ya mind articulating why you think that? Curious.

Sure - PR and Flanders were both over before the 20k board flashed by. Amstel was in the balance for much longer - along with a main group with Sagan in (and you'd never think he'd be there) that gave a really interesting dynamic to the final selection.

But the race at Amstel was basically locked up untill 20km to go and the racing was just a simple “attack, someone chases” untill the final hill where Astana did everything they expected.

In both PR and Flanders the racing was on from much further out.

Anyway, what’s much more important is my man BrM was in the break.

Not bad for his 14th Amstel.

Love that guy.

rick_chasey

Also some appalling commentary.

Two former winners fully commit to a big move and he was banging on about things being where they were, calling accelerations “THE MOVE” when they plainly aren’t and having a go at the cameraman for giving side on shots and for “dive bombing” corners when they weren’t.

Didn’t even manage to name check the riders untill the director did it on his behalf.

I mean, both have won this race in the last 5 years. How can he not spot that???

Absolute shambles.

When he’s on it’s really f@cking amateur hour isn’t it.


All that banging on about “ooo dangerous roads” when they’ve already been around the circuit twice.

He’s like those old farts you get on club runs that never f@cking shut up about every dangerous corner that isn’t dangerous, who you end up waiting a cumulative 20mins for them to get downhill and then they’ll stack it into a car in trafficat a red light in the final 20km home and have a go at you for it for being “reckless”


Christ he’s awful.

Mad_Malx

Rick Chasey wrote:

But the race at Amstel was basically locked up untill 20km to go and the racing was just a simple “attack, someone chases” untill the final hill where Astana did everything they expected.

In both PR and Flanders the racing was on from much further out.

+1

Sun Dodger

Rick Chasey wrote:

Sun Dodger wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Sun Dodger wrote:

Of course you can have a different opinion. I happen to think it is wrong. My view is that Amstel was a better race than the last two Sundays.

I'm pretty parochial about this kinda thing, but really?

D'ya mind articulating why you think that? Curious.

Sure - PR and Flanders were both over before the 20k board flashed by. Amstel was in the balance for much longer - along with a main group with Sagan in (and you'd never think he'd be there) that gave a really interesting dynamic to the final selection.

But the race at Amstel was basically locked up untill 20km to go and the racing was just a simple “attack, someone chases” untill the final hill where Astana did everything they expected.

In both PR and Flanders the racing was on from much further out.

Anyway, what’s much more important is my man BrM was in the break.

Not bad for his 14th Amstel.

Love that guy.

I guess we all see what we want. The nature of the courses is that PR and Flanders have a longer final. But this year (and exceptionally), Amstel was a much better race than it's April cousins. Glad for your man.

tailwindhome

Interesting overlap at Amstel in terms of rider form, fatigue and how it fits into their season.

DeVlaeminck

Thought it was a decent race spoilt by Sagan, Valverde and Allaphilippe looking at each other rather than trying to win it in the last 2k. I really don't get Sagan's tactics there, fastest sprinter, good form, I don't expect him to chase everything down but when Kreuziger goes it would have taken very little to follow.

rick_chasey

Kreuzinger was bear strong today.

ShutupJens

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Thought it was a decent race spoilt by Sagan, Valverde and Allaphilippe looking at each other rather than trying to win it in the last 2k. I really don't get Sagan's tactics there, fastest sprinter, good form, I don't expect him to chase everything down but when Kreuziger goes it would have taken very little to follow.

Sagan goes with Kreuziger > Everyone goes with Sagan > Kreuziger sits up and then the cycle repeats though, while Valgren would still have been riding off

Kreuziger has the advantage of not riding Roubaix last week too, riders don't often ride Roubaix and Amstel

Vino'sGhost

So much for Sagan being too heavy

m.r.m.

On Valgren's second attack Sagan tried to close. He didn't have the legs. The gap then had become too big, because everyone (as usual) relied on Sagan to bridge. Race was done then.

DeVlaeminck

ShutupJens wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Thought it was a decent race spoilt by Sagan, Valverde and Allaphilippe looking at each other rather than trying to win it in the last 2k. I really don't get Sagan's tactics there, fastest sprinter, good form, I don't expect him to chase everything down but when Kreuziger goes it would have taken very little to follow.

Sagan goes with Kreuziger > Everyone goes with Sagan > Kreuziger sits up and then the cycle repeats though, while Valgren would still have been riding off

Kreuziger has the advantage of not riding Roubaix last week too, riders don't often ride Roubaix and Amstel

I think the gap was small enough that Kreuziger closes it or gets it close enough that Sagan or one other could do it without wrecking their chance in a sprint. There's a balance between doing all the work and recognising that you are the favourite in the sprint and may be lent on to do more than some others. Sagan was in the best position to react of the favourites and it's not as if he'd done a huge amount before that.

Sean Kelly was saying on the Roubaix (I think) commentary that he lost either a Flanders or Roubaix by letting someone ride away when he had good legs and could have reacted quickly and closed the gap for relatively little cost - for me today was one of those.

ocdupalais

Every race I’ve ever watched was not won by someone who didn’t do what they should’ve done to win it.

tailwindhome

inseine

Sagan was on the front when Kreuziger pulled away, then stayed on the front and watched as Gasparotto came past. Neither were strong or surprise attacks. I really thought he's have gone with Gasparotto at least. Doubly frustrated since he was my PTP pick!

TheBigBean

I presumed Sagan was sandbagging / not riding as part of a long game to win another race. Just like he did before Paris-Roubaix. The problem is I'm not sure what this next race is - maybe he will be a late entry to LBL and stun everyone.

TheBigBean

andyp wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

3rd monument in a row where survivors of the first break of the day are factors in the finale.

Can't believe everyone let this go.

The Amstel Gold is not a monument.

We're a generous bunch. The post was clear enough.

inseine

TheBigBean wrote:

andyp wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

3rd monument in a row where survivors of the first break of the day are factors in the finale.

Can't believe everyone let this go.

The Amstel Gold is not a monument.

We're a generous bunch. The post was clear enough.

I'm sure we could have a whole thread about this. No one seems to know when it was decided that there were ( monumnets. Not sure they were considered so in the Merckx era for example and it's not like the UCI even give them more world tour points.
If it's a question of age then Paris - Tours should be in and Flanders out!

DeVlaeminck

Not that long ago Amstel Gold was considered almost the 6th monument, if any race was going to make it into that group this was the one, I get the impression it's slipped back a bit in terms of prestige but as you say it's subjective.

rick_chasey

Monument length.

ShutupJens

If the strongest sprinter decides to do more work it won't stop other people trying to avoid taking them to a sprint anyway, pulling Valgren back wouldn't stop Sagan being worked over

philbar72

Rick Chasey wrote:

He’s like those old farts you get on club runs that never f@cking shut up about every dangerous corner that isn’t dangerous, who you end up waiting a cumulative 20mins for them to get downhill and then they’ll stack it into a car in traffic at a red light in the final 20km home and have a go at you for it for being “reckless”

too many of them about nowadays....

the commentary was great from my Dutch feed.

anyway, great race for me, though the finish guarantees that there will be splintered groups, the bemmelberg is at least partially decisive.

have to say though I do prefer the cauberg + a bit finish...

kingstongraham

Sun Dodger wrote:

Sure - PR and Flanders were both over before the 20k board flashed by. Amstel was in the balance for much longer - along with a main group with Sagan in (and you'd never think he'd be there) that gave a really interesting dynamic to the final selection.

PR and Flanders were both only over with more than 20k to go now that you know the winning attack was not brought back. All three were decent races. AGR was only disappointing in that none of those chasing were willing to do what it took to win because it would mean they would help one of the others to win instead - probably because they were all knackered. Valgren was strong enough to get the gap and take advantage of that.

Sun Dodger

KingstonGraham wrote:

Sun Dodger wrote:

Sure - PR and Flanders were both over before the 20k board flashed by. Amstel was in the balance for much longer - along with a main group with Sagan in (and you'd never think he'd be there) that gave a really interesting dynamic to the final selection.

PR and Flanders were both only over with more than 20k to go now that you know the winning attack was not brought back. All three were decent races. AGR was only disappointing in that none of those chasing were willing to do what it took to win because it would mean they would help one of the others to win instead - probably because they were all knackered. Valgren was strong enough to get the gap and take advantage of that.

Not saying that PR & Flanders were bad races - I enjoyed them both, but the point where the breaks looked like they would not come back were quite a long way out in both.

Just thought Amstel was a better race this year - which hardly ever happens. Hopefully this is a function of the new final, and we'll get more editions like this one.

rick_chasey

A great long interview in the Volkskrant with Tankink, ahead of Amstel.

I think the whole of Dutch pro-cycling is celebrating his presence in the break of the day today.

T!tbit, Marc Sergeant, manager of Domo–Farm Frites–Latexco during Tankink's first season, drove all the way up to attend Tankink's father's funeral, despite never meeting the guy and Tankink having only ridden with the team for a matter of months.

Another one (in the contxt of Bram having too much perspective to be a top rider) is after a long classics season TAnkink had to ride the Tour of Romandie too. He was totally pooped after a big stage. As he arrived at the hotel he immediately went to the bar and ordered a beer. It upset Gesink: "life's easy when you're Bram Tankink, isn't it?"

RichN95.

inseine wrote:

I'm sure we could have a whole thread about this. No one seems to know when it was decided that there were ( monumnets. Not sure they were considered so in the Merckx era for example and it's not like the UCI even give them more world tour points.
If it's a question of age then Paris - Tours should be in and Flanders out!

Here's the points system for the Super Prestige competition back in the 70s. Tours-Versailles is Paris-Tours and more highly rated than LBL, as are Paris-Brussels and Bordeaux-Paris.

When I started watching cycling in the 80s I don't think anyone talked about 'Monuments' or 'Grand Tours'.