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mamil preparing for an event

mamil314mamil314 Posts: 1,103
Hi;
I am looking to Fred Whitton Challenge, so there is about 10 weeks left to train. My goal is to post under 8 hour time (8:37 is average for 2017) and not having to put a foot down on Hardknott would be a big bonus. Perhaps might have to change from 50/34 and 12-28 to easier gear.

This is provided i get a go from GP whom i am seeing tomorrow. I had flu in November, from which i still have not recovered with achy chest. I am keen to start training, though, since i've been wanting to complete this event and have missed out in the past due to health issues.

I am 81kg at the moment and managed a disappointing 193W in my first 20 min FTP test on Saturday ( standard 72 min Zwift FTP test with warmup and warmdown). I tried hard to keep it above 200W which i assume is average for an untrained office person. I do not believe for a second i would be able to sustain that for a full hour considering the effort. I was losing concentration and vision and was close to falling off and HR above 190 for prolonged periods.

I installed trainer and Zwift 2 days ago and am thinking which workout to take up. This one seems appropriate, but is a bit short, so might just partially repeat?
https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/6wk-b ... tp-builder

This one seems harder, would it be too hard for a beginner?
https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/8wk-race-day-prep

I would appreciate some input.
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  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    If you have to ask the doc if you're fully recovered then I don't think you are.

    The FW is hard. I'd give up the idea of a certain time and just focus on getting round.

    Definitely get the lower gears sorted out asap. Nobody ever complained about having too low a gear....

    Can't really advise about the zwift workouts - but have you been able to get many miles in your legs this year ?
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,258
    I would disregard the power stats and just concentrate on getting in plenty of long/steady and shorter tempo rides between now and the day.

    Saying you are 81kg is meaningless without knowing your height and/or whether you have weight to lose, or not.
  • kingdavkingdav Posts: 416
    I've not done the Fred, but if I did, I'd be happy enough with getting round it in one piece and I consider myself pretty fit. A couple of guys locally, fitter than me are doing it and well along the way with tailored training programmes.

    The main reason for posting was just to say, I overheard those guys talking about the training they were doing and it involved long distances but keeping HR quite low. Sounds like they were finding it quite a challenge as the inclination is always to attack a climb etc. but it seems that for the FW you're looking for a different kind of fitness. Please don't take this as any kind of informed advice though!! Just something I overheard on a ride recently about training for your event.
  • 4-5 rides a week if possible (ideally 5). As Imposter says do a mix of short tempo and longer steady state rides, and I would do a threshold interval session as well as you will send a fair whack of time at or above threshold on the climbs. Possibly something like:

    Monday - rest
    Tuesday - 60-90mins tempo
    Weds - 2-4 hrs endurance
    Thurs - 45 - 60mins tempo
    Fri- rest
    Sat - Intervals ( 6 x 5mins or 3 x 12mins or 2 x 20mins - mix it up week to week)
    Sun - long endurance (start at 2-3hrs and add 30mins on per week until you get up to around the 7-8 hr mark)

    I wouldn't go too low for effort on the endurance rides, something around the upper end of zone 2, 65-75% of ftp if you can manage it.
  • mamil314mamil314 Posts: 1,103
    Thanks for replies. Looking forward to the 2 rest days a week already ^ ^
    Imposter, i am 180cm tall. Will be dropping 2-3 kg max as i was not functioning well and was sickly after dropping more weight in the past. Perhaps my diet is dodgy. With this training i am looking to slightly reduce my unfitness, that's all.

    As for goals, i do not mind being overambitious, i find i try harder. Also, i feel a bit 'meh' afterwards if i play it safe like i did in the Paris-Roubaix challenge a few years ago(172km in under 7hr, no climbing)
  • mrb123mrb123 Posts: 3,111
    I think your finishing time goal may be a little optimistic and you could risk going off too fast which is an absolute killer for the Whitton when you consider what you've got in store towards the end. The 2017 average times may be a little misleading because conditions were perfect. I'd guess the average standard of entrants in the Whitton is rather better than most sportives too.

    Not sure where you live but the best preparation you can do is ride as many steep (15% plus) hills as you possibly can on every ride you do. I'm not convinced that anything you do on the turbo can really replicate those lung busting kind of gradients.

    On the day, take it really easy over Kirkstone and the climb up from Ullswater. The A66 should provide some relatively easy miles if you get in a decent group. Once you hit the bottom of Honister there's really no hiding place. Make sure you get plenty of food down at the final feed stop so you've got plenty in the tank come Hardknott.

    The Lakeland Loop sportive 2 weeks before the Whitton is worth considering as it gives you chance to have a look at several of the climbs including Wrynose/Hardknott but is rather more manageable at 70 miles.
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    Exactly - if you blast off too fast then you'll pay for it umpteen times over by the end.

    Not done PR but 172 k in under 7 hours doesn't sound like you were flying then ?

    MG - how many people can get out for a 4 hour ride of a Wednesday ? You'd struggle to do that and work.
  • mamil314mamil314 Posts: 1,103
    No, i wasn't flying. I lack experience to find balance between caution and too fast to sustain and i suspect my margin between those is fairly slim.
    MG, seems like nice plan, not sure if i can make longer ride on Wednesday, but i might. This is a bit lifestyle changing ^ ^
    I just hope i stay healthy.
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,461
    Am I right in thinking you haven’t started training yet, having done little since November.
  • mrfpbmrfpb Posts: 4,483
    Can you postpone for a year without losing our fee? I did that for RLS100 when I was off the bike with balance issues in the spring. Better to wait till you can really go for it rather than getting into a training program while feeling that you may not manage the event.
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    If you haven't already been training then an intensive plan to get round in an above average time is a sure fire way to get sick.
  • Only in the UK would people stress about a couple of CAT 3 climbs on a leisurely jaunt around the countryside
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • Webboo wrote:
    Am I right in thinking you haven’t started training yet, having done little since November.

    He's had an achy chest
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • mrfpb wrote:
    Can you postpone for a year without losing our fee? I did that for RLS100 when I was off the bike with balance issues in the spring. Better to wait till you can really go for it rather than getting into a training program while feeling that you may not manage the event.

    You can, yes. It's what I'm planning on doing with the FW.
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,461
    Webboo wrote:
    Am I right in thinking you haven’t started training yet, having done little since November.

    He's had an achy chest
    He certainly will have if my assumption is correct. He might be advised to ride in mountain bike shoes :wink:
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    Only in the UK would people stress about a couple of CAT 3 climbs on a leisurely jaunt around the countryside

    Have you ridden these climbs Mr SS ?
  • mamil314mamil314 Posts: 1,103
    I would not want to postpone it any more, i've done so in the past. Being a mamil, i am, clearly, underestimating the challenge that are two steep hills at the end of long and cold ride. It is getting curious if i can do it, provided doc says yes tomorrow.

    Now, does short 9000 deraileur take 30 tooth?
    •Max rear sproket: 28T
    •Total capacity: 33T
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,461
    Have you done any riding since November.
  • mamil314mamil314 Posts: 1,103
    None. Partially, this is why i am a bit desperate for an advice, otherwise i would just ride as much as i can and yolo turn up to the event, like i used to;
    I am pretty determined to go, even if doc is 50/50. I guess, advice i am after is whether there is any point in pushing those 10 weeks harder than befit a beginner like me. Well gutted to have left it to so late, but it is what it is.

    Did a 'foundation' run today - 10 min warmup, 30 min @70%, 10 min warmdown. Tomorrow - intervals.
    Can i go to gym and work on glutes/hams/core on a rest day?
  • Totally just #YOLO it now. I'd just be trying to get in some good endurance rides (including a few decent climbs if you can) between now and the event, building up without stressing yourself too much. Get some lower gearing too. But if you find you can't complete a 100km ride with your level of fitness closer to the date, maybe postpone.
  • You are asking for specific coaching advice on a public forum from people that have next to no knowledge of you, your history, condition, experience, medical condition and treatment amongst a range of things that matter when it comes to what, if any, training you should be doing.

    Providing specific advice in that situation is unethical IMO and expecting it is unrealistic.

    We (i.e. people on a forum) can provide general advice on training but firstly, listen to your medical practitioner. Ignoring their advice would be foolish.

    Secondly, if you are given the medical all clear to train, then I suggest getting some training guidance from a qualified coach experienced in situations such as yours so they can properly assess your individual circumstances and provide a plan that makes sense for you.

    Training carries risk, and significantly more so when there are medical conditions to consider. Hard training while you have viral infection is very foolish. No one's life is worth a sportive ride.

    If you are all clear, then there is quite a lot of gain that can be achieved in 9-10 weeks, especially if you are currently untrained, and it does not necessarily require you to do hard intervals, nor gym work.

    One of the biggest mistakes made by many is attempting to do too much too soon and too quickly, as well as too hard too often.
  • Agree with Alex above ^^^ Some of the posts saying you should be training 4-5 days a week (even though you might be still suffering from your illness) is ludicrous. You could end up digging yourself into a big hole that'll do more harm than good. If you get the all clear from the doctors then great, start a plan to improve your fitness ( or better still inlist in a recommended coach if you can afford one ) BUT be under no illusion that you must do it in a certain time. The Fred is Soooo weather dependant if you want a quick time and that's without your personal illnesses. (I know, I've crawled along cold fell in temperatures and wind nearer to winter rather than summer doing the Fred) If you get the all clear to resume training then great but set no goals apart from just getting round. If it takes you 9 hours so what ? You can build on this for the following year when you're healthy and can have a solid winters training behind you.
  • This post frustrates me. What cyclist actually uses the term MAMIL? Always seems a bit defeatist when I hear that term.

    And another thing, a few people mentioning they can't ride the FW. Annoying given people such as myself tried but didn't get in.

    Rant over, good luck.
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,461
    I would suspect given your lack of time on the bike, just getting round would be a major achievement. I think I would bottle it and postpone it for a year.
  • I've been cycling 6 years and done all sorts of rides and only 2 weeks ago i cycled up Mt Teide in Tenerife which is 8,000ft non-stop constant climbing for 28miles and I did it non-stop and took me 2 hours and 40mins!
    I'm 47 years old, 6ft 6 inches tall and 100kg and the total days ride was 73 miles and 10,000 ft of climbing in 5hours 10mins. Being my size means physics and gravity kill me on climbs, just don't give up. But descents are my speciality!

    I have only ever cycled every other day and do about 150 miles a week in the warmer months and about 100 on the turbo/Zwift in the winter. My FTP is the higher side of 300w but that because of my 36 inch inside leg.

    I never follow any training plans go try best on every ride and eat healthy and fuel properly during rides.

    I can't tell you what to do, only you really know if you fit enough and as someone has said if you have to ask a Dr the answer is probably no.
  • jollygiant wrote:
    I've been cycling 6 years and done all sorts of rides and only 2 weeks ago i cycled up Mt Teide in Tenerife which is 8,000ft non-stop constant climbing for 28miles and I did it non-stop and took me 2 hours and 40mins!
    I'm 47 years old, 6ft 6 inches tall and 100kg and the total days ride was 73 miles and 10,000 ft of climbing in 5hours 10mins. Being my size means physics and gravity kill me on climbs, just don't give up. But descents are my speciality!

    I have only ever cycled every other day and do about 150 miles a week in the warmer months and about 100 on the turbo/Zwift in the winter. My FTP is the higher side of 300w but that because of my 36 inch inside leg.

    I never follow any training plans go try best on every ride and eat healthy and fuel properly during rides.

    I can't tell you what to do, only you really know if you fit enough and as someone has said if you have to ask a Dr the answer is probably no.

    Have you always been 100KG? Appreciate you are 6"6 but if you've been riding 6 years doing a 150 miles per week it's surprising you are at that weight if as you say you eat healthily.
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    TBH Hippos eat healthily and they're bloody massive.
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    OK so OP has been off the bike since November and still hasnt got the all clear from his doc - but wants an intensive plan to get round FW in an above average time.

    My moneys on getting ill again very soon.

    It's not like the FW course is only open once a year ? Just do it when you've recovered. I think you can even get a time too ?
  • Fenix wrote:
    TBH Hippos eat healthily and they're bloody massive.

    Pretty sure they don't cycle 150 miles per week.
  • Whilst SS may be the forum leg puller he does have a point.

    Yes it is a long day in the saddle and there are some testing climbs, but as long as you go with a good base of miles in the legs you should be ok. I wouldn't worry too much about Zwift and FTP tests I would be more concerned about getting in some decent miles with at least one ride of 3-4 hours per week

    The one thing you should sort out is gearing as it will make a whole world of difference.

    By all means charge up your local hills before the event to get the heart racing.
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