Cycling on Atkins diet

rnath

I'm a couple of weeks into a post-Xmas Atkins diet to help shift the impressively large lump of lard I seem to have accumulated over the festive season. It's working great in terms of weight loss, but (all other things being equal) the effect on my cycling seems to be pretty severe. 35 flat miles has become a challenge and I've all but lost the ability to cycle into a headwind for any length of time. Does this get better as your body adapts to the fat burning thing, or is it simple carb deficiency and it'll be this way until I start reintroducing them into my diet?

poynedexter

if you have any plan to cycle with any degree of intensity you really will need muscle glycogen. that means carbs, not junk, but good food.

if you want to lose body fat, you really just need a small daily calorie deficit. any "weight" you have lost so far will be made up of many things, inc water, fat, muscle tissue, gut material, glycogen. the fat bit will only be a % of your loss.

besides, do you really want to eat regularly with a low carb approach? i know i don't. and this is me saying this having lost about 10 lbs since the end of september, eating around 300 grms of carbs per day, and around 2300 cals, with plenty of days off eating to excess.

aberdeen_lune

Well that’s not true. The human body is dual fuel. You will need to cut out almost all carbs to go into ketosis though. Once your in ketosis you will have plenty of fuel to burn. Maybe not great for high intensity stuff though

sloppyschleckonds

Atkins diet in 2018?

DuckDuckGo LCHF

poynedexter

Aberdeen_lune wrote:

Well that’s not true. The human body is dual fuel. You will need to cut out almost all carbs to go into ketosis though. Once your in ketosis you will have plenty of fuel to burn. Maybe not great for high intensity stuff though

what exactly isn't true?

aberdeen_lune

poynedexter wrote:

if you have any plan to cycle with any degree of intensity you really will need muscle glycogen. that means carbs, not junk,.

This statement is not correct. You can use fat as a fuel for cycling if you are in ketosis. Check it out on the web to find out more.

rick_chasey

F*cking grim though.

Just stop with the fad diet, and just eat less.

That's all the atkins diet stops you doing. Eating as much.

lesfirth

Stop doing any "diet". It is such a negative thing. A diet is something you start and stop. As is repeatedly said on this forum ,it is all about calories in and calories out. You do not have to eat less,you have to change what you eat on a permanent basis.I choose,buy and cook what I eat. That makes it easier. I know that is not the case for many but it does not take much googling to know what to avoid and what to eat.

gweeds

Any ‘diet’ that essentially removes a food group doesn’t seem to make much sense to me and everyone I know who’s lost weight on Atkins has put it back on.

neeb

Aberdeen_lune wrote:

poynedexter wrote:

if you have any plan to cycle with any degree of intensity you really will need muscle glycogen. that means carbs, not junk,.

This statement is not correct. You can use fat as a fuel for cycling if you are in ketosis. Check it out on the web to find out more.

The rate at which you can utilise fat places quite major limits on intensity however, so I'm not sure that the initial statement was not true..

Sorry, I'm a pedant..

Michael Hutchinson summarises it all fairly well in his book "Faster":
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bVX ... en&f=false

aberdeen_lune

I agree to a certain extent but I have read about cyclists in ketosis managing 350watts average for an hour on the watt bike, which was a 7% increase on a previous best on a normal carb rich diet. So being the pedant back the 350watts is a degree of intensity but I'm not sure it would be good for the really intense surging efforts in road racing. Great for a marathon, time trial or triathlon though.

sniper68

lesfirth wrote:

Stop doing any "diet". It is such a negative thing. A diet is something you start and stop. As is repeatedly said on this forum ,it is all about calories in and calories out. You do not have to eat less,you have to change what you eat on a permanent basis.I choose,buy and cook what I eat. That makes it easier. I know that is not the case for many but it does not take much googling to know what to avoid and what to eat.

^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
In March 2016 the missus and I decided to lose weight.We started to follow the "Slimming World" Diet.As neither of us like dieting we didn't want to go rigid as we knew it wouldn't work long term.So we just went for the "principals" of the SW plan..ie no processed meals/oils/white bread etc.
Almost 2 years on and I'm down from 15st 8lbs(100kg) to 12st 11lbs(80.9kg).My missus(I won't put her weight) has dropped from a size 16top/14bottom to 12top/10bottom(she has big tits ).
All this has been done without "Dieting" as such but eating "healthier".We still drink(Wine) two or three(5) times a week but the rest of the "Diet" is just how we eat now 8)
We've tried the Atkins/Weight Watchers/Cabbage....etc,etc and none work.....because you're cutting out food/a food group and as soon as you reintroduce what you've cut....you regain any losses

2 years on and we still prepare everything from fresh,Curries,Bolognaise,Chillis...all made from scratch so we know exactly what's gone in there 8)

I'm 50 in May and lighter and fitter than I was at 30 8)

Midlands Grimpeur

You can use fat as a fuel for cycling if you are in ketosis. Check it out on the web to find out more./quote]

I don't tend to get involved in these type of threads as I am not an expert by any stretch but this is wrong. Ketosis is a metabolic state usually triggered during starvation (actual starvation, not being hungry), you are either in ketosis or not and if you were you would not be riding a bike.

Ketosis can be triggered through a ketogenic diet but this is a complex medical diet administered and managed by a team of doctors and dieticians. It is most commonly used to treat severe childhood epilepsy where the child is resistant to medication. It is only ever a last resort due to its complexity, side effects and the dangers of its long term implementation.

Ketogenic diets have been hijacked by fad nutritionists over the last few years, claiming they can be followed by anyone and can cure all sorts of diseases and medical conditions including cancer. There is NO evidence for this, and if you are a healthy person trying to follow a ketogenic diet you risk life changing and life threatening side effects, so basically don't do it (rant over!).

poynedexter

like all things in life, extreme rarely works. patience, consistency, moderation, balance, flexibility. these things work. cutting out almost an entire macro nutrient group isnt what life is about.

bonk_king

It makes me laugh when i read these threads about cyclists who go on pointless diets to lose weight. We're fecking cyclists for fecks sake. We're all skinny runts, unless you're not taking it seriously or just eating shite all the time. Eat good food, not to excess, and ride hard. The weight will look after itself. I'm usually 74kgs, after xmas i was 78kgs, and felt shocking to boot. 3 weeks into the new year replacing the xmas stodge with proper food again plus a few good rides and i'm back to 74kgs without even thinking about it.

figbat

A couple of years ago I lost around 18kg in 6 months. It was very noticeable and I got a lot of questions about “what’s your secret?”. I think people were expecting me to reveal some special diet, or a secret superfood, or something. When I answered “eat less, do more” their reactions were often amusing... “oh...”.

I simply cut my calorific intake but maintained the same basic carb/protein/fat balance (if I’m honest I cut carbs a bit by virtue of eating more veg/fruit and cutting down on breads). I then pulled the bike out and used it. I tended (through circumstance rather than planning) to ride on an empty stomach and wasn’t covering the sort of distances than needed in-ride refuelling. I never bonked or wobbled once. And whilst I never became a super-fit race cyclist, I did shift the timber. Once I had reached my target weight I simply started eating a bit more to balance the in-out.

And the best bit? It was easy. Yes, I was hungry a lot at the beginning but I got over that. The biggest factor in it all was willpower. Walk past the office mountain of biscuits and cakes rather than subconsciously reach for one every time I walked past. No snacks along the way because I feel a bit peckish. In fact I almost began to embrace the hunger, as it was a manifestation of my efforts towards my goal.

All this I did with no research - I just decided one day enough is enough, my BMI was almost 30, I’m in my 40s and heading for diabetes, heart issues and other middle-aged man afflictions. I downloaded MyFitnessPal to track my food intake and Strava for the exercise. That gave me the data I needed to record and see the benefits. And it worked. As a side benefit I also now enjoy cycling, which has led me here.

hypster

Cyclists banging out 350W whilst in ketosis is one of those urban myths that just won't die which is why these threads crop up with monotonous regularity. In reality the OP was just asking about losing a bit of weight and the last two posters bonk king and figbat have got it pretty spot-on. It's not rocket science is it guys? Why do we have to try and make it more complicated than it is?

rnath

OK, so I’m sensing a fair amount of antipathy! :shock: I should make clear… it wasn't my intention to fly the flag for Atkins/keto/LCHF - this is purely an experiment in shifting 8lbs of festive lard as quickly as possible. Generally, me and the missus eat very healthily but come Xmas it all goes to pot and as the years pass it seems to take me longer to get back in shape in the New Year - especially if the weather's bad and I'm not getting out so much.

I’m not a racer - just a 50yr old recreational cyclist who knocks out maybe a couple of 40 milers during the week and likes to go 75 miles on a weekend without too much suffering. Apart from the weight loss, I’m mostly curious to see how far the “narrow pipe” (energy delivery through burning fats) vs “big pipe” (energy delivery through carbs) can take me. The original question was really aimed at other cyclists who’ve tried low carb diets, whether the initial energy slump I’m currently experiencing is ongoing until carbs are gradually reintroduced after the initial 2 week “blitz” period, or if that improves as my body (theoretically) switches over from carb to fat burning. The weight loss is undeniable and significant (even after 2 weeks), although I fully appreciate this is almost certainly largely due to water loss.

I’ve committed to strict low-carbs for the rest of the (hopefully fat-busting) month and if I think it’s working out I expect to slowly build up the carb quota of my diet until I’m back to something more sustainable. At the very least, if it achieves nothing more than breaking the habit I develop (pretty much every winter) of over snacking, boozing and eating wodgy carb-rich comfort food (which I’m more than happy to surrender to and enjoy for the weeks around Christmas) then it’s served its purpose. And if this proves to be a successful shortcut to recovering the weight I want to be in come spring, then I’m happy to take it.

hypster

rnath,

I went down the full ketogenic route several years ago and was on a VERY low carb diet. Not to lose weight but to see if any of the hype about being able to train my body to rely on fat rather than carbs had any basis in fact. Long story short I had some very interesting hallucinations on the bike but not much else!

You say you are not going keto but just want to lose weight but your performance is suffering on the bike. My advice to you is follow the Atkins if that's what you think will help you lose weight. But you need carbs to fuel vigourous exercise so consume enough carbs on the ride to get you round without bonking. You will need to experiment with what and how much you need to eat to achieve this depending on how hard and how far you ride.

Don't think consuming these carbs will in any way negate your weight-loss diet, you will burn up the majority on the bike. After the ride you can just go back to the Atkins.

diy

It takes time to perform in a glycogen depleted state. It takes about 6-8 weeks of bonk training to effect a change in your performance. Once you've done it, you will find you can go further and harder without the need for sugary fuel, but you have to do it properly and maintain it once you are there.

I would explore other diets as there is a lot of evidence that atkins can cause damage. However if you want to continue, do 2 sessions a week at 65% of max for at least 45mins to 1 1/2 hours - with nothing other than a bit of caffeine in you before hand. After about a month, you can increase the work effort. You may find you cramp a bit to start. Other days, you need normal fuel and training, so I'm not sure how you can do this on Atkins.

rnath

^^ @hypster @diy

Thanks - sounds like good advice

keef66

I'm a 60 year old recreational cyclist. From my mid 40s I'd accumulate a bit of extra weight each Christmas or all-inclusive holiday (because I'm a greedy pig with the impulse control of a labrador) and despite trying to eat sensibly between these events my middle kept expanding.

Tried calorie counting everything 24-7, but I inevitably got bored, forgot to include things, underestimated portion sizes or did the labrador thing again when free food appeared in the office. The constant cycle of trying and failing made me miserable, and I remained plump.

Considered the Atkins diet, but never thought it sounded entirely healthy, and as a scientist all the stuff about ketosis sounded like a gross simplification, or possibly complete b0llocks to me.
But Mr Atkins was on to something, and it's now clear that the obsession with heart disease and the demonisation of fat was probably counter-productive. The obesity and diabetes epidemics appear to be more closely linked to the excessive consumption of carbs, and sugar in particular, and recent studies have shown that very low carbohydrate diets can have a role in reversing weight related type 2 diabetes.

Then I saw the Michael Mosely documentary where he was looking at fasting and it's possible effects on longevity. The spin off was the 5-2 diet and it's positive effects on body weight, blood lipids, blood pressure, insulin sensitivity and a host of other things.

Gave it a go and it worked. Eat what I like 5 days a week, varied diet, not having to exclude any foods, and then 2 days I eat just a 600 cal meal in the evening. Dropped 18 pounds and was back to what I'd weighed in my 20s. So now I eat like that all the time. I seem to have the willpower to get through a 600 cal day, knowing I can eat what I like the next day, and the doctor's no longer threatening me with statins.

I find it's still possible to ride at a reasonable pace on the fasting days, just not anything involving sprinting or trying to go fast up hills.

shiznit76

keef66 wrote:

Then I saw the Michael Mosely documentary where he was looking at fasting and it's possible effects on longevity. The spin off was the 5-2 diet and it's positive effects on body weight, blood lipids, blood pressure, insulin sensitivity and a host of other things.

Gave it a go and it worked. Eat what I like 5 days a week, varied diet, not having to exclude any foods, and then 2 days I eat just a 600 cal meal in the evening. Dropped 18 pounds and was back to what I'd weighed in my 20s. So now I eat like that all the time. I seem to have the willpower to get through a 600 cal day, knowing I can eat what I like the next day, and the doctor's no longer threatening me with statins.

I find it's still possible to ride at a reasonable pace on the fasting days, just not anything involving sprinting or trying to go fast up hills.

Cheeers, this was exactly what i was wanting to know as considering the 5:2 myself as find it hard to shift weight, this has gave me the impetus to give it a go, will report back findings

diy

5:2 worked for me, but I lost too much weight.. I now do 6:1 with occasional blips back to 5:2. After this years Xmas excess I fasted (600kcal) 4 straight days and it was pretty easy to do. dropped 2kg, which got me back to where I wanted to be.

Just a word of caution:
- more recent studies, show that the early health benefits seen are not much better than a conventional diet.
- when losing weight you do need to think about strength training as you will be burning protiens

I did find my vo2max increased, along with more obviously power to weight. On a fasting day for anything under 1hr and half, I'm about 10-15% better at any cardio workout. Whether that is simply being lighter, having my body full of so called "hunter" hormones or not having any food to digest, I can't say. But Its been consistent. While personal bests are a thing of the past for me now at 46. I did all my shorter distance strava PBs on fasting day.

I've pretty much concluded that the human body isn't designed to eat regularly.

keef66

diy wrote:

I've pretty much concluded that the human body isn't designed to eat regularly.

I did the same reasoning. Pretty sure we're not designed, but 99.99% of our evolution would have been before the times of constant, plentiful food supply. We must have adapted to eating a wide range of things, but erratically, feast and famine kind of thing. The ease with which I put on weight during the Christmas feast is testament to the efficiency of my fat storage systems, and then with a couple of tiny famines a week I can reverse the process.

I think the 3 meals a day with snacks in between is largely habit / social conditioning. Compounded by the fact that high fat, high sugar foods are particularly tasty / attractive, which would make sense in the world we evolved in, but is pretty disastrous today when they are available everywhere, 24-7, and more affordable than ever before.

And once you're eating too much of a very limited range of foodstuffs, it can become very hard to change. You'll have a skewed mix of intestinal microbes which thrive on the Burger King and bucket of coke diet, and they'll be sending messages back to your brain telling you to eat more of the same.

I'm seriously worried about the obesity and diabetes epidemic.

mrfpb

It's only in the developed world and only really since WW2 that we've really had the abundance of food to allow an obesity epidemic - societies where the poorest social groups have access to more calories than they need every day of their lives. So it's not some evolutionary throwback, there are probably a billion or more people in the world who don't know if they'll get enough food tomorrow, so will take what they can get their hands on today. The need to diet/slim is the ultimate first world problem.

p929

Well, since 2013 I've been interested on reduced Carbs intake to control weight. Last year I began cycling a bit 'serious' (i mean real training and learning technique, etc) at the same time I found about LCHF. I wanted to try it mostly to see if my mom's diabetes could be a little better controlled. Because of the fear spread during decades she is afraid of eating a lot of fat. Therefore we settled on a 'moderate' LCHF, i.e. 100 gr net carbs/day. My weight reduced and her blood sugar got a bit better.

Since I began I was worried about getting bonked during riding and still not convinced how my body works, because I'm not full keto, but neither carb fuelled. I didn't want to end up on a no-man's-land, but so far so good. I can ride up to 4 hours without eating anything, although not very intense (upper Z2 lower Z3). I wonder how is the carbs and fat expenditure during a ride, but it would require a calorimetry test, which I'm not gonna pay.

Nevertheless, from some studies and experiences (https://peterattiamd.com/ketones-carboh ... -co-exist/ https://cyclingtips.com/2013/08/high-fa ... r-cycling/) I randomly assumed a rate of 30 % of carbs at Z3-Z4...but that's for a fully adapted keto cyclist. I still don't know how it would be for me on a 'moderate' LCHF diet.

As final note, I must admit that I have no background on medicine (I'm just a curious engineer), but I agree with the idea of how cutting carbs might help you at several levels of your life, even with cycling (at least at a recreational level)

mrfpb

P929, I think we are similar in our approach as far as cycling goes. I'm finding I'm able to go 3 hrs plus without food ( or breakfast) in z2 or 3. This seems to be the alleged fat burning zone. However, my diet over the last year is just is bit less of eveything apartfrom more fruit and veg, rather than LCHF.

A lot of diet advice in cycling litrature is aimed at making people better/faster cyclists. But some of us cycle to be fitter, healthier people, so different advice applies

ZMC888

I've been up around 120kg 10 years ago and now I'm about 80kg, but still intending to cut another 5kg or so just to get leaner and be at my best climbing weight for the summer season, I've though I'm in a normal weight zone BMI wise.

My opinion is that the Atkins diet is a bad diet for long term health. To have fun on the bike you need carbs. Carbs are fuel, but carbs or food generally when you don't need it obviously will make you fat, so limit intake on rest or work days.

Calorie restriction works well, but it can mean a lifetime of calorie counting. Fasting is great, 5:2 and 5 day fast mimicking are very quicker methods to cut weight. Ketosis is a real thing and does work, but like Atkins I really think it's not an ideal diet for long term health.

Simply look at blue-zone areas and the diets of our closest cousins-chimpanzees to see what we should be eating. Greens, beans, onions, mushrooms and seeds nuts. Complex carbs, not simple refined factory produced carbs. A wholefood plant based diet with once a season grass fed meat, weekly fish and maybe even some insects.

The easiest way to lose weight is to eat calorie light, nutrient and water dense foods like cabbage and strawberries. You'll feel stuffed full and have eaten hardly any calories and have had plenty of vitamins and minerals.

p929

ZMC888 wrote:

My opinion is that the Atkins diet is a bad diet for long term health. To have fun on the bike you need carbs. Carbs are fuel, but carbs or food generally when you don't need it obviously will make you fat, so limit intake on rest or work days.

I somehow agree with you. Extremes are always bad and Atkins' is one. However, it hasn't been fully proved the long term effects of it. OTOH, I don't agree that you need to stuff yourself with Carbs to enjoy cycling, maybe at a competitive level, who knows, but at recreational level I think, because my own experience, that it could be possible with LCHF or Atkins to enjoy cycling. Also, we have to take into account that everyone is different, and fuel requirements varies from person to person.

ZMC888 wrote:

Simply look at blue-zone areas and the diets of our closest cousins-chimpanzees to see what we should be eating. Greens, beans, onions, mushrooms and seeds nuts. Complex carbs, not simple refined factory produced carbs. A wholefood plant based diet with once a season grass fed meat, weekly fish and maybe even some insects.

The easiest way to lose weight is to eat calorie light, nutrient and water dense foods like cabbage and strawberries. You'll feel stuffed full and have eaten hardly any calories and have had plenty of vitamins and minerals.

That sounds more in the direction towards a Paleo Diet, which I think is worthy to check.

p929

mrfpb wrote:

P929, I think we are similar in our approach as far as cycling goes. I'm finding I'm able to go 3 hrs plus without food ( or breakfast) in z2 or 3. This seems to be the alleged fat burning zone. However, my diet over the last year is just is bit less of eveything apartfrom more fruit and veg, rather than LCHF.

Although Z1-Z2 are the 'fat burning zones' you expend some amount of carbs, that's inevitable. However, the 1 million question is: how many carbs, and how much fat?

Fruits and vegs are Carbs, but different from simple processed carbs, which I think should be almost eliminated from diet. In fact, Fruits and carbs are the reason why I keep on a moderate LCHF, because I love the taste and I know they nourish my body properly, instead of processed flours (I must admit I still love the taste of bread, but I know that I just can't eat it). All in all I think another interesting view is the Paleo diet, which I find not as restrictive as others.

mrfpb wrote:

A lot of diet advice in cycling litrature is aimed at making people better/faster cyclists. But some of us cycle to be fitter, healthier people, so different advice applies

Well, be aware that most of high performance advice are based on the paradigm that athletes should/can only work at performance level when fully carb-loaded, which has been a disproved lately, for instance LeBron James follows a LCHF.