Froome Vuelta salbutamol problem

TheBigBean

It reminds me of Contador's case. Everyone doing their best to make sure it is dealt with quietly and then it is finally leaked.

timothyw

RichN95 wrote:

It's worth noting that, according to people who know more about this than us, Salbutamol has not been shown to have performance enhancing properties at all, even in high doses

Yeah, I mean ultimately this is pretty disappointing as far as doping positives go.

Where's the 60% hematocrit? Where are the cortisol injections? Where are the mysterious bags of actovegin? Where's the huge carnitine injection? Is there a mysterious courier involved somewhere carrying an unidentified package?

If he loses the Vuelta and gets a ban for this they simply weren't trying IMHO.

kleinstroker

The only thing this throws up is that any use of Ventolin inhalers will push you over WADA limits, and maybe that Diego Ulissi was treated a bit unfairly. I seriously doubt UCI will strip Froome of his Vuelta Title, & Sky will have a better response to this then Lampre managed



http://inrng.com/2015/02/diego-ulissi-and-the-mpcc/

above_the_cows

RichN95 wrote:

It's worth noting that, according to people who know more about this than us, Salbutamol has not been shown to have performance enhancing properties at all, even in high doses

Yes, yes but that doesn't matter. There are witches to hunt and hunters to satisfy so even if he is found to be scientifically in the clear it doesn't matter, the hunters must be fed their pound of flesh.

I honestly don't see how he will be allowed to get away with this.

I don't particularly care for the man on an individual level, but this is a sad day for the sport and for reasoned discussion because this is trial by media and the idea of anything other than an absolute is out the window.

blazing_saddles

cgfw201 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

cgfw201 wrote:

I’m bored to death of Sky pretending they are whiter than white,

When have they actually ever said that though? It's other people saying it one their behalf.

All they have said is that they are going to be clean (which team says otherwise?) and they won't hire people with doping convictions.

Jiffy bags, testosterone patches, doping doctors, 2x bio passport failures, tramadol, wiggins tues, kenacort, now this.

Them pretending to be clean is really wearing thin.

Again, it's no different to other teams, other than the fact that they have been put in a spotlight.
The rest enjoy relative anonymity.
For instance: Which team is associated with the most doping incidents during their history?

salsiccia1

RichN95 wrote:

It's worth noting that, according to people who know more about this than us, Salbutamol has not been shown to have performance enhancing properties at all, even in high doses

Can be used as a masking agent though

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

It's worth noting that, according to people who know more about this than us, Salbutamol has not been shown to have performance enhancing properties at all, even in high doses

Probably does help a bit if you have asthma.

Of course. But not beyond that. To use Shane Sutton's terminology it will return a 95% to 100%, but there's nothing to show that it can take anyone to 101%

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

It's worth noting that, according to people who know more about this than us, Salbutamol has not been shown to have performance enhancing properties at all, even in high doses

Probably does help a bit if you have asthma.

Of course. But not beyond that. To use Shane Sutton's terminology it will return a 95% to 100%, but there's nothing to show that it can take anyone to 101%

Trying to help save his rep & achievements?

He's gonna be banned, and there's always gonna be an asterisks by his name.

RichN95.

I wonder if cyclists with inhalers are told if they have got close to the limit on tests as a warning or not. You could be flirting with the limit due to a different inhaler, bad technique etc and not even know it.

fat daddy

Salsiccia1 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

It's worth noting that, according to people who know more about this than us, Salbutamol has not been shown to have performance enhancing properties at all, even in high doses

Can be used as a masking agent though

body builders use it in the lead up to contest for the final 0.001% fat loss .... but thats generally at the 4mg+ dosage .. perhaps he was looking to loose a bit of weight :shock:

inseine

Team Sky said that there was “considerable evidence to show that there are significant and unpredictable variations in the way Salbutamol is metabolised and excreted. As a result, the use of permissible dosages of Salbutamol can sometimes result in elevated urinary concentrations, which require explanation. A wide range of factors can affect the concentrations, including the interaction of Salbutamol with food or other medications, dehydration and the timing of Salbutamol usage before the test.”

I have the feeling this is going to drag on...

rick_chasey

Would explain why he goes on about his ears ringing from the crowds the whole time.

nickice

Matthewfalle wrote:

Why not?

They have always said that they don't condone dopers, will get rid of any dopers - past, present, future, staff, riders, etc - so first thing they should do is suspend him then move towards sacking. This is what every other team does.

He has failed the two tests and they have admitted that he was over the limits therefore breaking internal Sky rules and the UCI's rules.

This isn't conjecture - it's fact.

Cash,I'd have thought. Anyone else has been expendable. Another reason why they shouldn't have had the policy in the first place.

joelsim

He's over the limit, therefore he should get a ban similar to Ulissi's.

Those are the rules, no amount of mitigating circumstances or any explanations matter a jot.

larkim

Just hypothetically, I wonder what WADA's view would be on the following:-
10am day 1 - 800 micrograms Salbutamol inhaled
10pm day 1 - 800 micrograms Salbutamol inhaled
6am day 2 - 800 micrograms Salbutamol inhaled
10am day 2- 800 micrograms Salbutamol inhaled
10am day 3 - 800 micrograms inhaled
10pm day 3 - 800 micrograms inhaled

In a "normal" 24 hour period, no excess usage. But in the rolling 24 hour period from 10pm day 1 to 10pm day 2 2400 micrograms inhaled.

I presume the 24 hour threshold is always intended to be a rolling one, but I could see some confusion here (not that I have any insight into whether this is likely to be a factor here).

tailwindhome

"If his case is confirmed as a positive nobody can give me back the emotions I would have felt by winning the Vuelta and climbing on the top step of the podium in Madrid,” Nibali is reported as saying by the Tuttobici website. Nibali is currently at the Bahrain-Merida training camp in Croatia.

Nibali revealed he also suffers with asthma but suggested rain during the final stages of the Vuelta meant there was no need to use an asthma inhaler that contained Salbutamol.

"It had rained during those day in Spain and so it seems difficult that he suffered with asthma. I’ve got the same problem but when it rains the pollen doesn’t cause any problems and you don’t even need to take one puff of Ventolin,” Nibali said, according to Tuttobici.

"For sure this is a terrible news for the sport and for me."

rick_chasey

TailWindHome wrote:

"If his case is confirmed as a positive nobody can give me back the emotions I would have felt by winning the Vuelta and climbing on the top step of the podium in Madrid,” Nibali is reported as saying by the Tuttobici website. Nibali is currently at the Bahrain-Merida training camp in Croatia.

Nibali revealed he also suffers with asthma but suggested rain during the final stages of the Vuelta meant there was no need to use an asthma inhaler that contained Salbutamol.

"It had rained during those day in Spain and so it seems difficult that he suffered with asthma. I’ve got the same problem but when it rains the pollen doesn’t cause any problems and you don’t even need to take one puff of Ventolin,” Nibali said, according to Tuttobici.

"For sure this is a terrible news for the sport and for me."

Bahahaha, Nibali is excellent. Good lad.

mididoctors

probably a accident mistake whatever but a positive is a positive.

he takes whatever suspension ban that is handed out...the end.

if there is gound to review the regs for bute then it's not during an ongoing case of a riders test results but independent of it.

mididoctors

RichN95 wrote:

I wonder if cyclists with inhalers are told if they have got close to the limit on tests as a warning or not. You could be flirting with the limit due to a different inhaler, bad technique etc and not even know it.

i think its very likely but the rules be the rules.

tailwindhome

Stage 18

viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=13084609&hilit=vuelta+stage+18+Stage+18+suances&start=60

kingstongraham

I didn't realise Nibali was another of the multitude of high performing cycling asthmatics.

fenix

i thought it was understood that these high performing cycling asthmatics have only become asthmatic with the efforts of their training and racing under all conditions ?

RichN95.

I see the spambot selling fake passports has revisited the forum. I wonder how much a TUE dated September 6th costs.

gweeds

Groan, Froome you knob.

Does anyone else just not have the energy for this.

RichN95.

mididoctors wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

I wonder if cyclists with inhalers are told if they have got close to the limit on tests as a warning or not. You could be flirting with the limit due to a different inhaler, bad technique etc and not even know it.

i think its very likely but the rules be the rules.

I'm not arguing that he should get off scott free - and I doubt he will. Just that this is very likely an error rather wrong doing

above_the_cows

Gweeds wrote:

Groan, Froome you knob.

Does anyone else just not have the energy for this.

Me. I just can't even with all the crappola from all the sides. A positive poonami if you will.

RichN95.

TailWindHome wrote:

"It had rained during those day in Spain and so it seems difficult that he suffered with asthma. I’ve got the same problem but when it rains the pollen doesn’t cause any problems and you don’t even need to take one puff of Ventolin,” Nibali said, according to Tuttobici.

Froome's asthma is completely unrelated to pollen though.

haydenm

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

If I was taking my blue inhaler that much in 24 hours I would need a nebuliser, (or this amazing new one I've got, if anyone is having trouble with asthma I highly recommend Fostair)

Do explain to the non-asthmatics.

If your symptoms were that bad that you were not responding to repeated doses of salbutamol through an inhaler you would be struggling to walk up stairs or lie down. A nebuliser is pumping the drug and oxygen into you. Bear in mind that if you are this bad you could be admitted to hospital and it could kill the old the sick and the weak

Sorry Rick, I should have been more clear, SC has it. Basically the only times I've ever needed to take my blue inhaler a lot to be able to breathe (without exercise) I've either had a full asthma attack (twice in my life) or I'm trying to deal with dust from doing DIY or something, either way I'd certainly be nowhere near the level required for racing, especially with the dust as I get loads of mucus even if I'm not tight.

I should probably say, thinking about it, when doing exercise with a bit of asthma I probably do take it 8 times or so but you really aren't meant to. Recently I have been taking it a lot and at my review last week the doctor panicked when I told her I took it 8 times in a day and they completely changed my prescription that I've had as long as I can remember. As it has been said, there isn't necessarily a direct correlation between inhaled and urine amounts though but either way, if he has the best doctors in the world he shouldn't really be taking that much as far as I can see, he would be on different medication. I have no experience of managing asthma and racing with any sort of anti doping though so maybe they thought it was the best way to deal with it as each person can react differently to different things.

It's a bit different to me taking a load of ventolin because I want to go out on my bike and I'm feeling a bit tight, he should be on the right drugs. It is personal though

above_the_cows

RichN95 wrote:

I see the spambot selling fake passports has revisited the forum. I wonder how much a TUE dated September 6th costs.

I've no idea but will it be blue?

gweeds

Above The Cows wrote:

Gweeds wrote:

Groan, Froome you knob.

Does anyone else just not have the energy for this.

Me. I just can't even with all the crappola from all the sides. A positive poonami if you will.

This, basically.

I just like watching road racing. But I'm *this* close to turning my back on the whole shower.