Trying to figure out what kind of rider I am
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burnthesheep wrote:Honest question though for the stronger guys, what's the slope of that steady ramp? :-)
I don't think many people realize how many hours some riders like the Cat 1 guy in this thread, do put in. Or how many years are in those legs at that time input.
I ride a max of 6hrs a week. It's all I can manage. To make up, usually it has some rougher intervals than if I had more time for long base rides. So it is a focuses 6 hours. No time to fart.
But that 6 hours is NOTHING compared to the guy just up the street from me. He easily does 10hrs+ per week. Probably more like 12 hours. Including some intense trainer stuff. No, not a theoretical guy, an actual person I follow.
Makes you feel pretty small in comparison.
I wonder what the cap on this 6 hours or so will be perhaps 3 years from now.
I've probably averaged about 10 hours a week for the last 6 or 7 years with a couple of shortish stints off injured/holiday. I think I could drop to 6 and maintain a lot of my power, but unlikely I'd have got it without more volume early (basing that on other people I know who drop back a bit from doing more).
Regards the ramp, well its tough to say, but for someone my size 78-80kg you can be competitive in 2/3 races (assuming you have a kick of some type) with maybe an FTP of 330W or so. You'll be regularly the strongest rider in the race with anything much over 350 assuming its not too hilly, and unless you race like an idiot or get marked out, with anything closer to 400w you really should be winning most of them...
All of the above would get round most E123 races, the latter types capable of a result, maybe winning too if they play it well, get in a good move etc. But I would say if you wanted to be a regular national b level winner then you'd probably want to be able to do around 400w for an hour, and still be capable of something half near it after a hard 3 hour race. Premier Calendar races are very hard in the UK, and full of full time riders and if we were sticking to the same weight, you'd need another few watts I would think to be capable of getting round near the front of one of those. But I doubt there are many riders of my weight at that sort of level to be honest.
What you will find is that certainly beyond 2/3 road races which are generally sub 3 hours, while having the watts is important, what is so important is the ability/stamina to pull out a solid effort after a longer much harder race. This is where those riders putting in 20 hour weeks regularly out of season etc will come into their own. They may not have much more outright clout than the national b race winner but they'll be able to do it after 4 hours, while he may not...
Beyond that I don't really know, I know decent prem calendar racers who will be able to sit in a break for most of a Tour of Britain stage, but those guys do start to feel it towards the end, and I doubt they'd feel great the following day! The ease in which a world tour pro usually wins the national UK road race (which is a solid 6 or so hour race) really outlines how big that stamina base is on those guys. Generally the break is most of team sky/orica and it won't be because they have a FAR better FTP than most of the very best UK guys (few watts probably) it will be because they race 150 days a year and have the stamina.
A chap I know through riding came 17th in the National Road race this year https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/event ... mpionships - he is probably more like 85kg (at a guess), there is a great pic of him riding with Cav looking at him as they I think were in the break together. He did something mental like 12 minutes at 500W to get over the climb with that group.
BEYOND THAT - the level of a race winner in a classic/grand tour mountain stage is really very hard to fathom. Cancellara (assuming he was clean etc) showed just how much better he was than everyone when he rode back from the end of E3 that year to the podium. He was riding through groups of world tour pro's the same as I would ride past people in a Wiggle ride. It was nuts.Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com0 -
That's kind of what I figured.
From what I've heard said, it seems there's a big split from (again, US based cats) the 5,4,3 bunch and then the 2,1, pros bunch of riders from an hours with the butt in the saddle point of view.
I think you mentioned the length of race being a big deal. Makes sense.
Local to me, the 5's and 4's race 90min. So about 35mi or less depending on route. That's pretty much my limit right now for that intensity level. Maybe 2 hours. The 3's, 2's seem to do about 120 to 150 min. But then 1's and above, the time of the race is a bit of a jump.
I guess your response would explain why you can train at X, then X+1, then X+2 hours a week for some cats then jump to X+5, X+8, X+10 hours a week for the next cats. Longer races need a bigger base and ability to sustain longer or more attacks and responses.
Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly happy only ever doing 5 and maybe 4 stuff someday. I'm not aspiring to be a 3, 2, or 1. I have no illusions about that.
Ninja edit:
One thing right now about the weight.......I can't seem to enjoy eating much after harder training rides or indoor trainer sessions. I know your overall diet contributes, but you still need to eat lunch or dinner or whatever. But my appetite really gets kicked to the curb when I do that. I'm sure that's some of why the weight is going down. Last year an hour I may get out 500 to 600kj. I've seen 800+ kj on my lunch hour workouts. But then I don't have an appetite.0 -
Bondurant wrote:People have to be the same age to race against each other?
Nope, but then you knew that, your just trying to be clever, age matters both in amount of training you can sustain and recovery etc etc so comparing a young guy to a guy drawing his pension is an unfair comparison if you want to compare ability, for sure their will be older riders competing and doing very well, bottom line is their are no toure riders in the pro peloton drawing their pension and theirs a reason for that.0 -
burnthesheep wrote:whatleytom wrote:Maybe he can race to grasp the difference between your and you're instead, not sure age applies there.
I thought it, you said it.
I used the search tool on some old posts. Some are downright unreadable. The comma usage is tough as well.
I know some people may post in a hurry from a phone. It makes the grammar and comma usage a pain when switching keyboards on an Apple phone. However, I'd much rather go to a party with the strippers, JFK, and Stalin instead of a party with the strippers JFK, and Stalin.
spend more time training and worry less about how someone writes something would be my advice to getting improvement your probably scoffing a barrel load of grub pouring over the spelling an such like in those old posts instead of doing some sit ups or something else usefull to get in shape0 -
Solid use of the quote system there. Difficult to see at a first glance which was your post, but the woeful use of language was pretty obvious as soon as I read it.
Who said I was looking for any improvements, I know I'm not finding any here. Happy enough that even if I weighed another 20kg I could happily beat a non "toure" rider who's drawing his pension.Blog on first season road racing http://www.twhatley.com/0 -
whatleytom wrote:Solid use of the quote system there. Difficult to see at a first glance which was your post, but the woeful use of language was pretty obvious as soon as I read it.
Who said I was looking for any improvements, I know I'm not finding any here. Happy enough that even if I weighed another 20kg I could happily beat a non "toure" rider who's drawing his pension.
Probably could no ones saying you can't , what you can't do is beat me at my age and dont be too sure about 20 kilos, on the flat thats a nice advantage as soon as the road tilts upwards thats a lot of extra weight you would be feeling that a lot sooner than me in the alpes
btw wasn't talking to you the quote system was playing up I was replying to the sheep0 -
reacher wrote:..... and dont be too sure about 20 kilos, on the flat thats a nice advantage as soon as the road tilts upwards thats a lot of extra weight you would be feeling that a lot sooner than me in the alpes
Yep that's a lot of extra heft, even if it was predominately muscle. Unless that 20kg of mass nets you an extra 80+ watts at FTP then you'll really feel that once the road heads skyward! Just imagine hitting a few hills with a backpack full of library books...0 -
MiddleRinger wrote:reacher wrote:..... and dont be too sure about 20 kilos, on the flat thats a nice advantage as soon as the road tilts upwards thats a lot of extra weight you would be feeling that a lot sooner than me in the alpes
Yep that's a lot of extra heft, even if it was predominately muscle. Unless that 20kg of mass nets you an extra 80+ watts at FTP then you'll really feel that once the road heads skyward! Just imagine hitting a few hills with a backpack full of library books...
That's right, it's pure conjecture by both those boys that they could beat me when their my age, if their the lads in the photos their both big units now, pretty young, so not only are they faced with continuing to be able to train for decades more they have the additional problem of keeping the weight off. Not as easy as they seem to think, anybody can train hard when their young and tell us all they can beat some old guy lets see what their doing when their my age on a mountain.0 -
Do this thread a favour and stop posting, Reacher. It really is quite embarrassing.
We're both over 30 FYI.Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com0 -
I found out who reacher really is. You guys had better keep up the training, and stay off the pies. He's 105 and French, which explains the standard of English.
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Btw, the toure is won in the mountains not riding up an down dual carriageways0
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Are you not doing the same saying I might be an old fart but no one my age is as good or anyone younger will be a fat biffer when they get old.reacher wrote:okgo wrote:Do this thread a favour and stop posting, Reacher. It really is quite embarrassing.
We're both over 30 FYI.
Why, because you say so, first you tell us all how good you are, then how you can beat me on any climb or hill or something, post something relevant instead of assumptions about what you can or can't do when you reach my age, your not bad but your no Alberto Contador sunshine that's for sure, like I said lets see if your fat ass is as good when the years have rolled on. Lets put it this way you carry on putting timber on like you are you won't be catching me up any mountain climbs as the years roll on, stick to the flat is my advice or your the one that's going to be embarrassed in your old age. You and your buddy should be good at that age I'm assuming that's what over 30fyi means, you got a lot of work to do to stay that way then is all I can say. Don't worry I'm done for now, it's all yours to continue posting about how good you both are.0 -
This is painful. Please don't use "their" when you mean "they're".0
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reacher wrote:okgo wrote:Do this thread a favour and stop posting, Reacher. It really is quite embarrassing.
We're both over 30 FYI.
Why, because you say so, first you tell us all how good you are, then how you can beat me on any climb or hill or something, post something relevant instead of assumptions about what you can or can't do when you reach my age, your not bad but your no Alberto Contador sunshine that's for sure, like I said lets see if your fat ass is as good when the years have rolled on. Lets put it this way you carry on putting timber on like you are you won't be catching me up any mountain climbs as the years roll on, stick to the flat is my advice or your the one that's going to be embarrassed in your old age. You and your buddy should be good at that age I'm assuming that's what over 30fyi means, you got a lot of work to do to stay that way then is all I can say. Don't worry I'm done for now, it's all yours to continue posting about how good you both are.
Pathetic.
Bye.Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com0 -
Looking forward to logging back in after another 30yrs have passed. Reacher will be dead, but at least we'll have solid, non age biased point of comparison. Can't wait. Should we all quickly baseline our metabolic rates and testosterone levels just to make sure it really is a level playing field?Blog on first season road racing http://www.twhatley.com/0
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reacher wrote:Btw, the toure is won in the mountains not riding up an down dual carriageways
Reacher, you really need to stop. Btw - 'tour' doesn't have an 'e' on the end. Unless you mean the guy that plays for Man City...0 -
His memory must be going too and forgetting Lemond taking the final TT win to take the yellow off Fignon.
Pretty sure TT results have played a big part in later years too.0 -
On topic.........I found this..........https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os9z1j7EOak
Vegan Cyclist highlighting how you "grow up" as a rider from nothing. Made some sense. I came from nothing a year 1/2 ago, so it was interesting to see. He gets into how your "curve" might look as you grow.
Right now, I'd say it's somewhere in between the crazy sprinter and the full Gaimon types who have a flattish curve from 5sec down to 1 hour. I do a lot of 1 hr to 2 hr solo rides at hard intensities. But, usually once in a while I'll do something long too. Some peace and scenery.
It doesn't matter though. I'm still green or wet behind the ears, still a ways to go.
Haven't weighed in for about 3 weeks or so. Scale was a damned liar last night. I'm on the road on business and took the running shoes. Had a run and weighed in after. Clothes but no shoes down to 160. Scale is broken or a liar. Last I weighed in at like 164.5 with just the kit on. So 160 seems low for cold weather running outfit.
I'll try again when I get home. That would be nice though to be to 160 already. I did have a sandwich without the bun yesterday and passed on the chips, and only one beer instead of 2 or 3. If 160 was true, I'd say 150 by May isn't unreasonable. I did weigh 150 in high school leaving to go to college. That tells me that hitting 155 or so isn't some "hard" effort, but just the results of not being a lazy person who ate a little too much. Anything less than that will probably be very difficult.
It's nice having my pants fit again and gaining a belt loop back. And also not looking like a sausage in a team-fit kit.0 -
Still going well.
I've discovered that eating too much trash for lunch once in a while and nightly drinks were keeping me from losing some. Work travel doesn't help either.
But have proven it's possible for me to keep training and keep a decent diet that works for losing some weight. I have some belly fat still to lose. Body hangs on to that for dear life. Right now I'm doing some steady state, over/unders, and endurance hours instead of HIIT while losing the weight. Don't want to canabilize muscle while losing the weight. Also upped the protein and veggies and backed off the carbs a little during this time.
The way it's looking, I should hit 160lbs sometime in January. Maybe 155lbs by May. Don't want lose fitness over it.
I got my license for 2018 and will start signing up as the registrations open. One race opens this weekend that will run in March. I have a guy that heard I'm going for it and may want to join training and be a team member.
I'll join a local race simulation group ride and go get my teeth kicked in a few times before hand.
2018 should be a fun and productive year on the bike. The training plus races may net some nice fitness by next year's end.
I had no idea that amateur bike races gave out money even at the slowest categories. Just enough though to go grab a beer afterwards with the team.
I think you guys would call that a "chipper" race. A race with such low prizes/standards that the winning prize is fish and chips at the local pub.0 -
Sounds like it's all coming together.
Racing well is much more than just watts or w/kg or numbers on a Garmin screen. Race craft - being able to stay upright, choose the right wheels, follow the right moves, read the bunch, etc - is arguably a much more important factor. Riding with the racers on their training rides will be great for you.0 -
A chipper means you could win enough money to get fish and chips from the chippy( takeaway) not from the pub. That would elite cat winnings.0
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Webboo wrote:A chipper means you could win enough money to get fish and chips from the chippy( takeaway) not from the pub. That would elite cat winnings.
Thanks for that clarification!0 -
Which would probably be a world tour race these days judging by the price of cod and chips at my local now!Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com0
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An enjoyable (at first) side effect of continuing to get faster is more easily grabbing some local segments
..........just to have them taken back by the Cat 1/2 rider who lives up the street a day later. 
But, I have to remind myself.......last year this time you wouldn't have even been close0 -
burnthesheep wrote:An enjoyable (at first) side effect of continuing to get faster is more easily grabbing some local segments ..........just to have them taken back by the Cat 1/2 rider who lives up the street a day later.
But, I have to remind myself.......last year this time you wouldn't have even been close
"Trying to figure out what kind of rider I am"
The never dull Strava segment hunter. Wel dun.I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles0 -
Well we all knew that......
Nobody said I didn't have a race schedule. This isn't just for farting around on the bike path, even though that's fun too.0 -
From personal experience, I've tended to climb indifferently on 10-20min climbs with differing weight +/- five/six kilos. All my PRs have been at 72/73kg and not 66/67kg. What has been a constant trend is more power being faster regardless of weight/fatigue
And I've also personally found bike weight/tire size/tire pressure/wheel combo to be utterly invisible on trends too. At 70-75kg watts (and where/how you use them) matter a lot more than weight to me. It's just a shame watts aren't easy to come by.
Hunter Allen famously said Losing weight does not automatically mean your performance will improve.0
