Paradise Papers (& Panama Papers)

Matthewfalle

To flip the question Pinno, what on earth could possibly attract them them to being part of the UK?

mamba80

well, in that case they can fcuk off and rebuild themselves cant they?

Matthewfalle

Well, the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey can quite easily do that themselves oh eloquent mamba.

You're not very good at this are you?

Pinno? Calling Mr Pinno to the debate........

Matthewfalle

Jersey:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo ... N_Redirect

The uk

https://briansimpsons.files.wordpress.c ... 4770v2.jpg

Hmmmm - I can see all those jersey people champing at the bit to become part of the uk

orraloon

MF, you seem awfully exercised by this topic. Why?

Matthewfalle

Exercised? No understand.

Excited?
Enthused?

What - the whole tax topic?

Matthewfalle

U.K.

https://edinburghnapiernews.files.wordp ... field2.jpg

Jersey

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BWND9M/channel ... BWND9M.jpg

Stevo_666

Matthewfalle wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

What is the GDP of the IOM? If it was mega bucks and given that it is part of the UK, if I was prime minister, I would tax the f*ckers to within an inch of their lives in a one off hit, the 3 legged w@nkers. Let them build the cake up cake for another 10 years and do it again.
I mean what would they do to stop me, raise an army?

You see my point.

If not, how much are they directly contributing to HMRC in the grand scheme of things? That's the bottom line. Why should inhabitants of the IOM/Jersey/Guernsey have very favourable tax rates and the rest of the UK have to compete on a different playing field?

https://tradingeconomics.com/isle-of-man/gdp-per-capita
See what a consistent low tax policy can do for your economy?

I'd see your point if they were part of the UK. Unfortunately there is one small problem with your little plan...

If they want to afford their physical protection by us, or use of the NHS when required and not have to apply for visa's to travel to the UK mainland, or get direct help and aid from us if a storm/tidal wave were to hit them... [add scenario of your choice] then they should be part of the UK domestic tax arrangements. This, all under the umbrella of the Queen as head of state. How does that work?

Apart from the NHS thing which they don't really need as the health care systems aren't plucked like the NHS, they don't really use the UK for any of what you have mentioned. They're pretty self sufficient being massively financed first world islands.

You do know where they are and what they are like don't you?

Why should they be part of the domestic U.K. Tax set up? You seem to be avoiding this question Pinno my learns friend. Sort of Rick tactic....

I have to say there are some similarities

He's already been told what they get from us what they pay for.

Stevo_666

Matthewfalle wrote:

Well, the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey can quite easily do that themselves oh eloquent mamba.

You're not very good at this are you?

Pinno? Calling Mr Pinno to the debate........

Call me cynical, but there does seem to be an undercurrent of the politics of envy in this thread...

robert88

In the USA there are c. 325 million people.

I was amused to learn that..
..3 of those people own more than over 160 million people of those 325 million people.

And we know who those 3 people are. The odd thing is that they don't support Donald Trump who wants to give them a tax cut. They do not support Donald Trump, ok.

Of all income brackets the poorest 50% will have their their tax cut least. They are most likely to support Donald Trump. With that level of cognitive discernment is it surprising they are poor? But hey, if you watched Fox News all day you'd become pretty stupid, I guess. Donald Trump does.

orraloon

Matthewfalle wrote:

Exercised? No understand.

Excited?
Enthused?

What - the whole tax topic?

Oh dearie me. If, old chap, one doesn't understand the Queen's English I'd be only too happy to provide one with some language coaching. Of course, I'd have to invoice one or one's legal entity through my BVI company, I'm sure one understands.

Stevo_666

Robert88 wrote:

In the USA there are c. 325 million people.

I was amused to learn that..
..3 of those people own more than over 160 million people of those 325 million people.

And we know who those 3 people are. The odd thing is that they don't support Donald Trump who wants to give them a tax cut. They do not support Donald Trump, ok.

Of all income brackets the poorest 50% will have their their tax cut least. They are most likely to support Donald Trump. With that level of cognitive discernment is it surprising they are poor? But hey, if you watched Fox News all day you'd become pretty stupid, I guess. Donald Trump does.

Possibly because they pay less tax to start with?

Read the 'tax explained with beer' parable that I posted a few pages back: it may help you understand better.

Matthewfalle

orraloon wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Exercised? No understand.

Excited?
Enthused?

What - the whole tax topic?

Oh dearie me. If, old chap, one doesn't understand the Queen's English I'd be only too happy to provide one with some language coaching. Of course, I'd have to invoice one or one's legal entity through my BVI company, I'm sure one understands.

English? Foreign language to me, bud. As I am sure you can tell by my limited prose and syntax.

Anyhow, are you wondering why I am here so much?

Matthewfalle

Stevo 666 wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Well, the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey can quite easily do that themselves oh eloquent mamba.

You're not very good at this are you?

Pinno? Calling Mr Pinno to the debate........

Call me cynical, but there does seem to be an undercurrent of the politics of envy in this thread...

Undercurrent? More like a tidal wave mixed with a whirlpool of ignorance and ill founded protest.

pinno

Stevo 666 wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Well, the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey can quite easily do that themselves oh eloquent mamba.

You're not very good at this are you?

Pinno? Calling Mr Pinno to the debate........

Call me cynical, but there does seem to be an undercurrent of the politics of envy in this thread...

Not form me - . You know that I couldn't possibly be envious.

What was the question MF was asking, oh yes:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Why should they be part of the domestic U.K. Tax set up?

Okay:

"Foreign relations and defence are the responsibility of the British Government."

Do they pay for this defence?

"Citizenship in the Isle of Man is governed by British law. Passports issued by the Isle of Man Passport Office say "British Islands – Isle of Man" on the cover but the nationality status stated on the passport is simply "British Citizen". "

How come? Why should an island which is ostensibly independent, enjoy the benefits of being protected by the UK?

"Trade takes place mostly with the United Kingdom. The island is in customs union with the UK, and related revenues are pooled and shared under the Common Purse Agreement. This means that the Isle of Man cannot have the lower excise revenues on alcohol and other goods that are enjoyed in the Channel Islands."

What is the total revenue created by the IOM's percentage of the 'Common Purse'?

So, having read a little bit about the chequered history of the IOM, particularly having been ruled by Norway and intermittently Scotland or England, it seems to be a country that wants to be part of the United Kingdom but enjoy completely different governance and taxation.

They also share our currency and therefore the strength and reliability of Sterling. Tell them to float their own currency and print it and then be more susceptible to currency fluctuations, hostile purchasing etc.

So it seems that they want their cake and they want to eat it, unless they can show me that it benefits us more than it benefits them.

What is the total net contribution to the UK? Does that cover all the benefits that they get by being a part of the UK?

Matthewfalle

But you still haven't answered the question of why should the i o m, jersey, guernsey want to be part of the uk?

You are just churning out the same words in a slightly different order - Steve and I have already answered you above points succinctly and in a timely manner, see.

pblakeney

Pinno wrote:

So it seems that they want their cake and they want to eat it, unless they can show me that it benefits us more than it benefits them.

What is the total net contribution to the UK? Does that cover all the benefits that they get by being a part of the UK?

I'm confused. (Again).
Have I wandered into the Brexit thread by accident?

pinno

Matthewfalle wrote:

But you still haven't answered the question of why should the i o m, jersey, guernsey want to be part of the uk?

I have answered the question: read the post again. They are part of the UK in terms of the common purse (IOM), they would be defended by the UK in the event of war, they have free travel to and from the UK, they have the same head if state (the Queen), they can enjoy mutual health benefits (even the IOM is ostensibly not in the EU, figure that? Perhaps that is because they are part of the UK.

"Although Manx passport holders are British citizens, because the Isle of Man is not part of the European Union, people born on the Island without a parent or grandparent either born, naturalised, registered or resident for more than five consecutive years in the United Kingdom do not have the same rights as other British citizens with regard to employment and establishment in the EU. ").

They all share the same currency as we do with those intrinsic benefits.

"The United Kingdom is responsible for the island's defence and ultimately for good governance, and for representing the island in international forums, while the island's own parliament and government have competence over all domestic matters."

"Defence
Under British law, the Isle of Man is not part of the United Kingdom. However, the UK takes care of its external and defence affairs, and retains paramount power to legislate for the island."

Given the above, how can you possibly say that the IOM, Jersey and Guernsey are not part of the United Kingdom??

pblakeney

Pinno wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

But you still haven't answered the question of why should the i o m, jersey, guernsey want to be part of the uk?

I have answered the question: read the post again. They are part of the UK in terms of the common purse (IOM), they would be defended by the UK in the event of war, they have free travel to and from the UK, they have the same head if state (the Queen), they can enjoy mutual health benefits (even the IOM is ostensibly not in the EU, figure that? Perhaps that is because they are part of the UK.

"Although Manx passport holders are British citizens, because the Isle of Man is not part of the European Union, people born on the Island without a parent or grandparent either born, naturalised, registered or resident for more than five consecutive years in the United Kingdom do not have the same rights as other British citizens with regard to employment and establishment in the EU. ").

They all share the same currency as we do with those intrinsic benefits.

"The United Kingdom is responsible for the island's defence and ultimately for good governance, and for representing the island in international forums, while the island's own parliament and government have competence over all domestic matters."

"Defence
Under British law, the Isle of Man is not part of the United Kingdom. However, the UK takes care of its external and defence affairs, and retains paramount power to legislate for the island."

Given the above, how can you possibly say that the IOM, Jersey and Guernsey are not part of the United Kingdom??

I think you have answered your own question.

Stevo_666

FFS how many times do we have to tell you?

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/blog/2011/08/whats-the-difference-between-uk-britain-and-british-isles/

Quote: "The Channel Islands and Isle of Man are not part of the UK, but are Crown Dependencies."

Maybe we need Stevo and MF's pop up clinic for the hard of thinking :roll:

pinno

Stevo 666 wrote:

FFS how many times do we have to tell you?

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/blog/2011/08/whats-the-difference-between-uk-britain-and-british-isles/

Quote: "The Channel Islands and Isle of Man are not part of the UK, but are Crown Dependencies."

Maybe we need Stevo and MF's pop up clinic for the hard of thinking :roll:

Don't be condescending.

Answer these questions:

1. Why does it benefit the UK financially to maintain this 'Crown dependency'?
2. Why get all the benefits I listed without contributing directly to the UK tax system?
3. What is the net contribution to the UK for being a Crown dependency?
4. Why does it benefit us more than them?
5. How can they theoretically use the NHS despite not contributing to the tax pool bar VAT collection:

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2009 ... on-a-year/

"Add this together and the total loss to the UK from allowing the Isle of Man to operate as a tax haven – an activity we directly subsidise – is not less than £1.5 billion a year.

So much for the Isle of Man’s government claim that it pays its way. Anything further from the truth is very hard to imagine."

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Maybe we need Stevo and MF's pop up clinic for the hard of thinking :roll:

pblakeney

Pinno wrote:

...Answer these questions:...

They had better negotiators than Westminster.
Not too hard to imagine, is it?

pinno

I want a reply to the tax blog link vis a vis 'it probably benefits them more than us' quip.

pblakeney

Pinno wrote:

I want a reply to the tax blog link vis a vis 'it probably benefits them more than us' quip.

Just look up one.

Stevo_666

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

FFS how many times do we have to tell you?

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/blog/2011/08/whats-the-difference-between-uk-britain-and-british-isles/

Quote: "The Channel Islands and Isle of Man are not part of the UK, but are Crown Dependencies."

Maybe we need Stevo and MF's pop up clinic for the hard of thinking :roll:

Don't be condescending.

Answer these questions:

1. Why does it benefit the UK financially to maintain this 'Crown dependency'?
2. Why get all the benefits I listed without contributing directly to the UK tax system?
3. What is the net contribution to the UK for being a Crown dependency?
4. Why does it benefit us more than them?
5. How can they theoretically use the NHS despite not contributing to the tax pool bar VAT collection:

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2009 ... on-a-year/

"Add this together and the total loss to the UK from allowing the Isle of Man to operate as a tax haven – an activity we directly subsidise – is not less than £1.5 billion a year.

So much for the Isle of Man’s government claim that it pays its way. Anything further from the truth is very hard to imagine."

Do your own research and tell us.

But don't bother quoting from tax research.org, the author isone of the founders of 'Corbynomics' so profoundly biased on tax matters.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Murphy_(tax_campaigner)

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Do your own research and tell us.

:roll:

F*cking convincing that.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Maybe we need Stevo and MF's pop up clinic for the hard of thinking :roll:

Right on cue, here's our first customer

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Do your own research and tell us.

:roll:

F*cking convincing that.

Not my problem if doesn't know the answers to questions he wants answering.

Anyhow, I was talking him not you. MYOFB.

pinno

What do you make of this?:

"The case against subsidising the Isle of Man to be a tax haven goes to the House of Commons". Nov 8th, 2017.

We shall see what becomes of it. Maybe some hard truths but no one has yet proved to me that 'it benefits them more than it benefits us'.
It all points to the contrary.

There wouldn't be an issue if the case wasn't presented to the house of commons.
Anyway, why are you so vehemently defending a tax haven? On what basis?
You have yet to prove in anyway that 'it benefits us more than it benefits them'.

It appears that we subsidise the IOM but they 'are not part of the UK'. Perhaps we should invoice them.