Much Slower on my Winter bike ...why ?

neeb

You can have (almost) exactly the same range of gears with a compact as with a standard. A 50/36 with an 11-25 cassette is just about the same as a 53/39 with a 12-27. They just vary in the flexibility they (potentially) give you at either end. You can run lower gears on a compact because the biggest sprocket you can fit on the back will be a lower gear than on a standard, and higher gears on a standard because the smallest sprocket you can fit (11T) will be a higher gear than on a compact.

That said, most compacts and semi-compacts sold (50/34s and 52/36s) have a bigger jump between the small ring and the big ring than either a 50/36 or a 53/39. That may influence the way you end up using the gears.

Personally I think a 50-36 is perfect and ran this setup for years (I don't need a 52 or 53 / 11), but it's always a difficult one to get without using 3rd party rings.

mrb123

reacher wrote:

SurferCyclist wrote:

reacher wrote:

compacts are chain sets designed for very weak riders or to enable unfit people to climb,

What a crock of shoot.

that's one way of saying it, another way would be tell me the reason they were put on road bikes then that are sold to the general public ?

Have you ever ridden up Hardknott?

cycleclinic

It will be aerodynamics that is the cause. It does not not take a big change in frontal area to make a big difference to power requirements.

jgsi

Probably, but I am the only one really thinking... does it matter?
I've just had to make adjustments to my hack/trainer/commuter bike.. due to wheelset sale... it now weighs nearly 11kg...
I think I'm gonna be even slower.
Thank goodness I dont have to ride with Reacher, he'd have a very poor opinion of my setup.

trivial_poursuivant

To answer the original question, there is a reason why you decide winter bike over best bike and that’s usually to do with the weather. If it’s wet, windy or just very cold meaning you stick on extra layers or don’t warm up properly effects your speed. It’s probably got nothing at all to do with the bike. Unless you have lights, mudguards or other extra bits hanging off it. Also, what tyres are you using? Winter bike - winter tyres? Using something like gatorskins instead it GP4000s can probably knock a few km/h off your aversge speed .

darkhairedlord

If the winter bike is slower then just consider it extra training. It's a good thing.

surfercyclist

JGSI wrote:

Probably, but I am the only one really thinking... does it matter?
.

Well no, if you look at my previous post from Friday.

simon_masterson

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Using something like gatorskins instead it GP4000s can probably knock a few km/h off your aversge speed .

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... 0s-ii-2014

7–8 Watts in roller testing. But ‘a few km/h’ is quite difficult to achieve just from changing tyres, unless you are going from Marathon Plus to Veloflex Record.

cougie

I don't think even Marathon pluses slow you that much. Not according to my Strava anyway.

trivial_poursuivant

Simon Masterson wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Using something like gatorskins instead it GP4000s can probably knock a few km/h off your aversge speed .

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... 0s-ii-2014

7–8 Watts in roller testing. But ‘a few km/h’ is quite difficult to achieve just from changing tyres, unless you are going from Marathon Plus to Veloflex Record.

2km/h difference from GP4000s to harder gatorskins is not hard to believe. Roller tests can be taken with a pinch of salt as they don’t take into account real world performance. Unless your ride is done on silky smooth brand new tarmac then the differences are not as measurable. On bumpy harsher roads the 7-8 watts can be nearly double when you take into account how much a performance tyre deforms compared to a tougher harder wearing winter tyre.

It was just 2 tyres taken as example. If they were say Schwalbe One vs Durano I can tell you the difference is very noticeable. And a few km/h is most certainly a true reflection of performance.

If you actually look at rolling resistance in more detail a gatorskin tyre running at 80psi is 22 watts compared to 13.7 for a GP4000s II. There is only a close to 7 watts difference at 120psi. Unless you’re on the quite heavy side who is going to run tyres that high especially in the winter when you want as much grip as possible without risking pinch flats.

twist83

I am much slower on my winter bike because fat!!!

Not riding more than 50 miles since August 13th has not helped.

Maybe that is the answer? It is for me.

twist83

reacher wrote:

personally felt that it makes you ride differantly depending on what type of terain, the same as using bigger gears on a cassette, eventually you will use those gears if their on their and unless you up the cadence you will ride slower , compacts are chain sets designed for very weak riders or to enable unfit people to climb, the temptation is to ride them like they are designed, which means using easier gears, human nature being what it is the easier route is the preferred one normally, its one possible answer to why you are riding slower, for sure the argument is that pros ride compacts on mountain stages but they use insane cadence on very steep gradients so it depends on what type of ride your doing i guess,

I just sent this to my just shy of 10 stone friend who has an Elite licence and races for a team, with an FTP well north of 350Watts and told him to immediately desist use of the compact he rides on his a couple of his bikes

He still destroys most people on his winter Dolan with guards and a back pack even with a fat and unfit person compact chainset. So that is utter garbage.

w00dster

Firstly I don't agree with what was said about compacts being for lazy riders.
But I can most definitely agree with what is being said about having the easier gears so we use them. I also understand the mechanics of gear inches. But I do think I put in more effort when using my 52/38 11-28 as opposed to my 50/34 11-32. I honestly just put it down to being a bit lazy when I have the easier gears to spin.
I'm not saying there is a massive amount of difference, throwing in a random unscientific example, but if I am going uphill at 60rpm in the 38-28, then I am likely to be working hard to maintain that speed (and power), being of the lazy minded type, if I could work less hard for admittedly less speed, then I would likely do just that.
I'm not an elite racer, but I do race and there are a lot of guys who I race with / against who also don't use a compact and use either a standard double or a 52/3x. Even just at club level there is a mix of people who prefer different ratio's. As the elite racer was mentioned, at Paris Nice on the Queens Stage Contador used a 54/46 (possibly a 54/48 I can't quite tell - but happy to share the pic of the gearing). I know Contador is obviously not an elite racer but world tour, but it shows that there are different gear choices for different riding styles at all levels.
My personal observation is I find I'm faster on a relatively flat course using a 53/39 and 11-25 - but that is not a hilly course and again is unscientific just based on rides / races I have done over the years. I put it down to the closer ratio's, no big jumps so keeping a more constant speed and cadence.
I'm not saying that I am correct and your elite racer friend is wrong, just saying that in the rides / terrain I do, I prefer to use the gear ratio's I mentioned for racing as I have found this works for me. I would say your friend has gear ratio's he prefers, but would be surprised if he doesn't race flatter races on a 52 or 53 front ring and maybe even a 38 or 39 inner ring. I could be completely wrong. Going uphill I'm not a spinner, so my preferred riding style is to stay seated and then stand when the pace picks up. Works ok for most British climbs.
Now all that said, I don't think there is a 2mph difference. In fact I don't think there is a 2mph difference between my winter bike and my hardtail 29er mountain bike!

fudgey

Ok, purely for the name of science i unpacked my AC-R at the weekend and reassembled.
Yesterday, with winds of 40mph i rode the same route, in the same direction and managed the 15.6 miles in 48:06 and 19.6mph av

Then today was a drifferent route on the AC-R, 17 miles in 51:34 @ 19.9mph av

So to conclude, although varying wind conditions i managed to ride the same 15.6 mile route in the same direction:


Colnago CX-Zero alloy, with mudguards @ 20mph av
Colnago AC-R carbon @ 19.6mph av
Colnago C60 carbon @ 19.8mph av

Therefore i deduce that it is the rider, not the bike.

kingrollo

Fudgey wrote:

Ok, purely for the name of science i unpacked my AC-R at the weekend and reassembled.
Yesterday, with winds of 40mph i rode the same route, in the same direction and managed the 15.6 miles in 48:06 and 19.6mph av

Then today was a drifferent route on the AC-R, 17 miles in 51:34 @ 19.9mph av

So to conclude, although varying wind conditions i managed to ride the same 15.6 mile route in the same direction:


Colnago CX-Zero alloy, with mudguards @ 20mph av
Colnago AC-R carbon @ 19.6mph av
Colnago C60 carbon @ 19.8mph av

Therefore i deduce that it is the rider, not the bike.

and you like colnago bikes !

fudgey

I certainly do, although thinking of selling the CX-Zero and AC-R and buying a CX bike...
But im not convinced i should haha