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New Propel to be disc only.

trivial_poursuivanttrivial_poursuivant Posts: 1,150
edited September 2017 in Road general
Just seen the new Giant Propel range for 2018. Only disc brakes versions will be available. I personally have nothing against discs, if people want them then that's fine, but should bike companies be moving away from rim brakes so soon? How many people look at sticking more than one wheelset on their bike from time to time or just swap out the stock wheels for something expensive they already own? Going to be a bit hard if all your wheels are rim brakes.

Is this Giant being bold or just ignoring their customers and possibly damaging sales?
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  • A bit like Cannondale going Disc only on the Synapse, its a hideous bike with a limited appeal so they obviously know their target market and how many they expect to sell.

    Other brands & models are available
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • A bit like Cannondale going Disc only on the Synapse, its a hideous bike with a limited appeal so they obviously know their target market and how many they expect to sell.

    Other brands & models are available

    This will be the second bike in the Giant range now disc only, the Defy I could sort of understand, it's not really a thoroughbred race bike as such but the sort of people buying aero bikes are more likely to be wanting to put expensive carbon deep section rims etc on it.
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    Well, it is a bit bold, but this is their aerodynamic road bike, and the press releases seem quite convinced that using disc brakes is more aerodynamic, so it's certainly their prerogative to release it without a rim braked option. Perhaps we ought give them a bit of respect for not bodging them onto the 2017 model, instead doing it properly with a complete redesign?

    I suspect the only remaining disadvantage is that the disc braked bike will be slightly heavier than an equivalent rim braked model, but it's pretty well established that a few grams of aero drag are better lost than a few grams of weight.

    Perhaps they're hoping this will actually drive sales of their higher end propels which come fitted with giant's deep section carbon wheels - instead of people taking a lower end propel (as they might now) and kitting it out with expensive wheels from another manufacturer (or that they already own)?

    For me, I've got a rim braked Giant TCR from a couple of years back which I'm perfectly happy with as my best bike - the only meaningful upgrade I could envision would be to replace it with something disk braked, such as these new Propels.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 10,842
      A bit like Cannondale going Disc only on the Synapse, its a hideous bike with a limited appeal so they obviously know their target market and how many they expect to sell.

      Other brands & models are available

      This will be the second bike in the Giant range now disc only, the Defy I could sort of understand, it's not really a thoroughbred race bike as such but the sort of people buying aero bikes are more likely to be wanting to put expensive carbon deep section rims etc on it.

      I would simply add that I suspect there are probably more Propels being ridden in sportives than there are in local/regional races. The racer's popular choice (in terms of Giant) still seems to be the TCR.
    • bristolpetebristolpete Posts: 2,255
      Imposter wrote:
        A bit like Cannondale going Disc only on the Synapse, its a hideous bike with a limited appeal so they obviously know their target market and how many they expect to sell.

        Other brands & models are available

        This will be the second bike in the Giant range now disc only, the Defy I could sort of understand, it's not really a thoroughbred race bike as such but the sort of people buying aero bikes are more likely to be wanting to put expensive carbon deep section rims etc on it.

        I would simply add that I suspect there are probably more Propels being ridden in sportives than there are in local/regional races. The racer's popular choice (in terms of Giant) still seems to be the TCR.

        Too right. Giant struck gold at the Tour this year. I had my eye on a Dura Ace TCR as they had loads of models left due to average sales of all bikes, but since the success at the Tour, practically every bike has sold out and certainly the higher end stuff is gone. Quite a turnaround according to my dealer. It will be a 2018 bike now if it happens.
      • mouthmouth Posts: 1,196
        Aren't Giant the biggest manufacturer in the world? I'd imagine they've spent a few quid on research and development, and then marketing to make sure they execute it properly. Also, such a large brand/manufacturer can provide an alternative model which will be something close to the same but with traditional brakes. Not something the smaller, more focused can do. Giant can probably make bigger leaps between product cycles (no in intended) than any other.
        The only disability in life is a poor attitude.
      • stueysstueys Posts: 1,332
        It because discs perform better and people who have ridden them tend to want to stay on them ;-) More and more bikes will move across now. Plus the manufacturers need to get their R&D spend back....

        Plus they are engineering most of the downsides (aero/weight) out now and lots more wheel choices available.
      • I approve.

        I don't see the issue with the v-brakes though. I own a Propel with them and have descended for about 45 min down 6200 feet just fine. Then again, I'm not on carbon wheels with carbon braking surface though.

        I will be changing out the OEM brakes if I get wheels, but just so I can run a 25mm rim/time. Not for more clamping force.
      • Interesting decision as I think it means you cannot ride in any competitive BC race with discs.
      • joey54321joey54321 Posts: 1,297
        I see a lot of Propels at races locally and strongly considered getting one when I upgraded my race bike a couple of years ago but found a good deal on a Scott Foil instead.

        I assume Giant has good stats on people who want disks Vs people who race in the lower categories and thus can't use discs, but it is interesting they have cut themselves off from an entire market when they could have presumably kept the 'older'/non disc version in the lineup too.

        After riding my cross bike with hydro discs, if I was racing I would 100% get an aero disc bike similar to this or the Canyon aeroroad disc.
      • mamil314mamil314 Posts: 1,103
        so soon?

        Not soon enough, in my opinion. Superior brakes and better looks in one? Yes, please. For me, clean seat stays and forks far outweigh busier hubs. Just look at the Ultegra shod option.

        https://www.giant-bicycles.com/au/prope ... -disc-2018

        Cost is another matter, but at least the wheels should last a good while longer
      • mamil314 wrote:
        so soon?

        Not soon enough, in my opinion. Superior brakes and better looks in one? Yes, please. For me, clean seat stays and forks far outweigh busier hubs. Just look at the Ultegra shod option.

        https://www.giant-bicycles.com/au/prope ... -disc-2018

        Cost is another matter, but at least the wheels should last a good while longer

        Some would argue there is still plenty of people who wish to remain on rim brakes. Most bikes already have disc options but it is an option.
      • DavidJBDavidJB Posts: 2,019
        I've heard there may be a rim version coming to certain markets...
      • FlâneurFlâneur Posts: 3,027
        Madness33 wrote:
        Interesting decision as I think it means you cannot ride in any competitive BC race with discs.

        Is this the same across the globe though?
        Stevo 666 wrote: Come on you Scousers! 20/12/2014
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      • mouthmouth Posts: 1,196
        Madness33 wrote:
        Interesting decision as I think it means you cannot ride in any competitive BC race with discs.

        Rules are gonna change eventually though. If one or two other manufacturers get on board, then they'll be forced to.
        The only disability in life is a poor attitude.
      • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 10,842
        mouth wrote:
        Madness33 wrote:
        Interesting decision as I think it means you cannot ride in any competitive BC race with discs.

        Rules are gonna change eventually though. If one or two other manufacturers get on board, then they'll be forced to.

        That's not how it works. Most manufacturers already have disc-braked race bikes in their model ranges.
      • neebneeb Posts: 4,310
        I'm more or less ambivalent about discs - I'm a censored descender and would really appreciate them for riding in proper mountains, but for 95% of the riding I do the hassle, complication and minor weight penalty very marginally outweigh the advantages. Which (all in all) means that if I could easily upgrade I might, but the upgrade path is a total nightmare! I always buy my frames, wheels and groupsets individually and build my own bikes. I never buy any of these things at the same time - I'll buy a new frame one year and new wheels the next. Components such as bars, pedals, stems, saddles etc get passed from one bike to the next and rarely need to be changed. To go with disc brakes I would basically need to get a whole new bike and at least one extra set of wheels, and to get something anywhere near the level of my current best bike would be completely affordable - approaching a 5 figure sum.
      • bristolpetebristolpete Posts: 2,255
        neeb wrote:
        I'm more or less ambivalent about discs - I'm a censored descender and would really appreciate them for riding in proper mountains, but for 95% of the riding I do the hassle, complication and minor weight penalty very marginally outweigh the advantages. Which (all in all) means that if I could easily upgrade I might, but the upgrade path is a total nightmare! I always buy my frames, wheels and groupsets individually and build my own bikes. I never buy any of these things at the same time - I'll buy a new frame one year and new wheels the next. Components such as bars, pedals, stems, saddles etc get passed from one bike to the next and rarely need to be changed. To go with disc brakes I would basically need to get a whole new bike and at least one extra set of wheels, and to get something anywhere near the level of my current best bike would be completely affordable - approaching a 5 figure sum.

        I operate the same process and liquidise an asset to build an asset. Frames come and go, but the core of the bike moves as a frame-set arrives. I bought a mint F8 used on here for less than half price and something I could not get to at full retail.

        I call it 'the triggers broom' effect. It is effectively the same bike :mrgreen:

        You are 100% correct and there are a lot of seasoned riders with a stock of good kit not wanting to migrate to disc, but yes, the benefits can be there....
      • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 7,227
        Giant knows its audience...
        Ben

        Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
        Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
        Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
      • fenixfenix Posts: 5,180
        It's a nice looking bike - if it was rim brakes I'd be interested - but I don't know discs - never worked on them so I'm not keen to begin again. Rim braking has been great for me and if it aint broke....
      • mouthmouth Posts: 1,196
        Imposter wrote:
        mouth wrote:
        Madness33 wrote:
        Interesting decision as I think it means you cannot ride in any competitive BC race with discs.

        Rules are gonna change eventually though. If one or two other manufacturers get on board, then they'll be forced to.

        That's not how it works. Most manufacturers already have disc-braked race bikes in their model ranges.

        What I'm saying is eventually they'll cave to popular opinion. UCI already allow discs I believe. Whatever's at the top will eventually fall down.
        The only disability in life is a poor attitude.
      • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 10,842
        mouth wrote:
        Imposter wrote:
        mouth wrote:
        Madness33 wrote:
        Interesting decision as I think it means you cannot ride in any competitive BC race with discs.

        Rules are gonna change eventually though. If one or two other manufacturers get on board, then they'll be forced to.

        That's not how it works. Most manufacturers already have disc-braked race bikes in their model ranges.

        What I'm saying is eventually they'll cave to popular opinion. UCI already allow discs I believe. Whatever's at the top will eventually fall down.

        It's so much more complex than just 'caving in to popular opinion', which is why it has taken the UCI as long as it has, and it will probably take BC another year or two to announce an implementation strategy.

        Ironically though, 'popular opinion' among amateur/pro-racers is largely ambivalent to discs, as far as I can tell, so I'm not sure where you think this popular opinion is coming from.
      • white91white91 Posts: 431
        The alternative would be to produce and develop two frames instead of just one. I like their approach, disc, tubeless, deep sections. They have decided what to produce and produced it.
      • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 24,258
        Some markets have been more keen than others to take up discs. The UK is one of them, probably due to the wetter weather pattern. You will struggle to see many disc bikes in Italy, where weight is very much of a concern and nobody wants to carry around an extra pound in return for better braking in the wet... and then of course they don't look PRO and for many it is a problem.. bear in mind the Granfondo scene is very different from the Sportive scene and I am sure some Granfondo have banned discs
      • Some markets have been more keen than others to take up discs. The UK is one of them, probably due to the wetter weather pattern. You will struggle to see many disc bikes in Italy, where weight is very much of a concern and nobody wants to carry around an extra pound in return for better braking in the wet... and then of course they don't look PRO and for many it is a problem.. bear in mind the Granfondo scene is very different from the Sportive scene and I am sure some Granfondo have banned discs

        Think this says it all. A lot of people on here forget about the rest of the world and we are in comparison a quite small country. Lots of Mediterranean countries couldn't give a damn about discs and large parts of the US where Giant probably have a lot bigger market share.
      • Thigh_burnThigh_burn Posts: 489
        That's all true re weather in other countries and cultural preferences for lighter bikes, but surely it's in the manufacturer's interests (both of frames and components) to encourage riders to buy new gear. Given the control they have over pro racing and the dominance of the component market, if they decide they want everyone to move to discs, they can do that pretty easily, by selling more bikes that come disc as standard. With Sagan winning stages on discs I've no doubt that even weight weenies might begin to reconsider their opposition and will be mightily encouraged by the bike companies, Shimano and now even Campag.

        Anyway, it's a hackneyed debate I know. I'll step away now.
      • gimplgimpl Posts: 268
        As an owner of a 2013 Defy with rim brakes who was given the green light by SWMBO to spend £3k on a new bike this year I am pretty disappointed they are only offering disc brakes now. In the end I've kept my money as I just don't see the need for disks where I live and I really wanted to keep my nice hand built wheels. Maybe I'm in a minority not wanting to change over but I am one of their target markets.

        I'll possibly re-consider when the rims and/or the hubs are worn out but until then happy to stick with what I've got. Frankly it's already a significantly better bike than my ability anyway.
      • gimpl wrote:
        Maybe I'm in a minority not wanting to change over but I am one of their target markets.

        Maybe not... I even came back from discs to rims...

        5 years ago the printed books market was over, as everybody should read e-books on a kindle. Now it's been 2 years of steady decline for e-books and printed books are back strongly. I have not seen a Kindle around in ages. "Progress" doesn't necessarily go in the direction big money wants it to go.

        Even vinyl is making a strong comeback
      • gimpl wrote:
        Maybe I'm in a minority not wanting to change over but I am one of their target markets.

        Maybe not... I even came back from discs to rims...

        5 years ago the printed books market was over, as everybody should read e-books on a kindle. Now it's been 2 years of steady decline for e-books and printed books are back strongly. I have not seen a Kindle around in ages. "Progress" doesn't necessarily go in the direction big money wants it to go.

        Even vinyl is making a strong comeback

        Tapes next. :mrgreen:
      • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 7,227
        gimpl wrote:
        As an owner of a 2013 Defy with rim brakes who was given the green light by SWMBO to spend £3k on a new bike this year I am pretty disappointed they are only offering disc brakes now. In the end I've kept my money as I just don't see the need for disks where I live and I really wanted to keep my nice hand built wheels. Maybe I'm in a minority not wanting to change over but I am one of their target markets.

        I'll possibly re-consider when the rims and/or the hubs are worn out but until then happy to stick with what I've got. Frankly it's already a significantly better bike than my ability anyway.

        You don't need to buy another Giant... you could build something wonderful for £3k.
        Ben

        Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
        Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
        Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
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