When does riding side by side become selfish?
Comments
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Veronese68 wrote:
Increasing the risk is the opposite of allowing them to pass safely. You've taken a reasonable statement and turned it into gibberish, you have fixed nothing. Read what has been written and think before posting please.Milemuncher1 wrote:
IFTFY.laurentian wrote:When does riding side by side become selfish?
When those doing so are aware of a faster vehicle behind them who could pass safely if they were in single file but choose to do nothing about it, because doing so would increase the length of the line, which would increase the risk to them.
Oh come on boss, they/we/I have the right to post gibberish.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Veronese68 wrote:
Increasing the risk is the opposite of allowing them to pass safely. You've taken a reasonable statement and turned it into gibberish, you have fixed nothing. Read what has been written and think before posting please.Milemuncher1 wrote:
IFTFY.laurentian wrote:When does riding side by side become selfish?
When those doing so are aware of a faster vehicle behind them who could pass safely if they were in single file but choose to do nothing about it, because doing so would increase the length of the line, which would increase the risk to them.
Practice what you preach.
If you fall into single file, it's demonstrably more risky to the riders than having the same amount of riders in a shorter, wider formation.0 -
True. But to turn a statement that makes sense into a statement that contradicts itself claiming it is now fixed is more than a little strange.Pinno wrote:Oh come on boss, they/we/I have the right to post gibberish.
Not too sure which of my preachings I should be practising either. Not quite sure how that comment fits in either, but then it is early and the medicine trolley hasn't been round yet.0 -
There's no one answer as the roads very so much.
Four examples:
1) Wide B or A road with oncoming traffic. Singling up allows a safe overtake even with on coming traffic. There can be enough space in a single lane for car and bike, or as often happens oncoming traffic with move over to allow overtaking vehicles through. Staying doubled up on this road will quickly back traffic up. Particularly the case going up hill when it's a low speed overtake.
2) Wide B or A road with little traffic. Singling up would allow a safe overtake even with oncoming traffic, however, as there is it little oncoming traffic it's hardly any inconvenience to stay doubled up and the overtaking diver use the opposite lane fully.
2) Narrow B or A road. Regardless of how busy a safe overtake isn't possible without a clear opposite lane. In this situation singling up just makes the group a longer and more difficult overtake.
3) Relatively wide, but single lane road (no central lines). Enough space to overtake one bike width but not two. Pretty obvious in this situation that singling up allows car past.
4) Very narrow single lane, where there isn't even enough space for a car to pass a bike (the type of road with passing places). Little point in singling up, instead you either have to stop and step aside to let a car past, or wait for a passing place.
Where the problems exist is in the grey areas. Some people will argue that there is never enough space to overtake with oncoming traffic. Peoples opinion on what is a reasonable amount of time for a car to wait for a gap to over take in situation 2 will differ too. There's also a grey area between 3 and 4 where people will think it's safe to pass and single file of cyclists and other think a passing place is required.
The other problem moving to single file is seen as a goodwill gesture: "we're trying to let you past". Often, in example 2 a car will get less annoyed if you single out, even though it just means they have to wait for a longer gap in the traffic, solely because they can recognise you're making an attempt to let them pass.
Some particularly stupid drivers in situation 2 will still get annoyed and shout at you to single up, even if there is no oncoming traffic, just because they view having to move over a lane as some sort of inconvenience.
Then of course there is the context of what is about to happen; approaching a junction or road about = little point letting a car past if you or they are about to turn off. Heading in to a town / village where a car will have to slow anyway. About to reach a safe point where a car can ore easily pass.0 -
thomasmorris wrote:There's no one answer as the roads very so much.
Four examples:
1) Wide B or A road with oncoming traffic. Singling up allows a safe overtake even with on coming traffic. There can be enough space in a single lane for car and bike, or as often happens oncoming traffic with move over to allow overtaking vehicles through. Staying doubled up on this road will quickly back traffic up. Particularly the case going up hill when it's a low speed overtake.
2) Wide B or A road with little traffic. Singling up would allow a safe overtake even with oncoming traffic, however, as there is it little oncoming traffic it's hardly any inconvenience to stay doubled up and the overtaking diver use the opposite lane fully.
2) Narrow B or A road. Regardless of how busy a safe overtake isn't possible without a clear opposite lane. In this situation singling up just makes the group a longer and more difficult overtake.
3) Relatively wide, but single lane road (no central lines). Enough space to overtake one bike width but not two. Pretty obvious in this situation that singling up allows car past.
4) Very narrow single lane, where there isn't even enough space for a car to pass a bike (the type of road with passing places). Little point in singling up, instead you either have to stop and step aside to let a car past, or wait for a passing place.
Where the problems exist is in the grey areas. Some people will argue that there is never enough space to overtake with oncoming traffic. Peoples opinion on what is a reasonable amount of time for a car to wait for a gap to over take in situation 2 will differ too. There's also a grey area between 3 and 4 where people will think it's safe to pass and single file of cyclists and other think a passing place is required.
The other problem moving to single file is seen as a goodwill gesture: "we're trying to let you past". Often, in example 2 a car will get less annoyed if you single out, even though it just means they have to wait for a longer gap in the traffic, solely because they can recognise you're making an attempt to let them pass.
Some particularly stupid drivers in situation 2 will still get annoyed and shout at you to single up, even if there is no oncoming traffic, just because they view having to move over a lane as some sort of inconvenience.
Sounds bang on to me0 -
thomasmorris wrote:There's no one answer as the users vary so much.
Sorry - had to change that ... following a driver who, having come across a group of less than 2 dozen riders split into several smaller chunks, pulled into a layby and shouted "Get out of my way" at all the riders who came past, the proceeded to drive dangerously past all the riders - pulling in on several, nearly causing a collision, then confronting the riders later at a junction.
The road in question was too narrow for any overtakes without using the opposite carriageway even with just a single cyclist - so it didn't matter whether or not the riders singled out.
For that sort of driver, just riding is regarded as selfish as it's obvious to him that he has priority on the road. It was amusing that he said he called the Police ... just as he drove off ...0 -
PBlakeney wrote:The shoeing will come because it is perfectly legal.
Why not simply overtake, or show some patience? Treat them as you would a tractor.
Treat them as you would want a car driver to treat a motorcyclist.
Last time I cycled two abreast, a car went past wound down his window and shouted some abuse. The road must have been 20 foot wide, how much space do you need ! How long was he held up for? Well with the time he wasted shouting abuse he must have added a whole 10 seconds onto his rural journey that might not have been done any quicker than 20 minutes. We certainly didn't hold him up any longer than HGVs do around here."The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby0 -
ben@31 wrote:PBlakeney wrote:The shoeing will come because it is perfectly legal.
Why not simply overtake, or show some patience? Treat them as you would a tractor.
Treat them as you would want a car driver to treat a motorcyclist.
Last time I cycled two abreast, a car went past wound down his window and shouted some abuse. The road must have been 20 foot wide, how much space do you need ! How long was he held up for? Well with the time he wasted shouting abuse he must have added a whole 10 seconds onto his rural journey that might not have been done any quicker than 20 minutes. We certainly didn't hold him up any longer than HGVs do around here.
2 things you could have said at the time:
1) How much road do you need? and/or
2) "You're the sort of tw@t you get when cousins marry".seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
