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Charlie Gard

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  • xdocxdoc Posts: 331
    You greedy sod. Us Paramedics are on less than that and we actually treat people ;-)
    Top

    Disgusting isn't it, I hang my head in shame :)
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 22,979 Lives Here
    Poor trolling from fishfish. That or he is Jeremy Hunt.
  • bendertherobotbendertherobot Posts: 11,655
    veronese68 wrote:
    Poor trolling from fishfish. That or he is Jeremy Hunt.

    Come on, bad as his comments were, I don't think there's any need to claim he's that piece of work. :lol:
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  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,148
    xdoc wrote:
    But the doctors here are greedy - they are overpaid.
    Okay fishfish, let me give you some FACTS!

    I've been an NHS Consultant for 25 years. My currently hourly rate of pay, net after tax, NI contributions, NHS pension is approximately £26.50.


    What do you earn gross? Traditionally people quote their salary before deductions.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • ExCyclistExCyclist Posts: 336
    xdoc wrote:
    But the doctors here are greedy - they are overpaid.
    Okay fishfish, let me give you some FACTS!

    I've been an NHS Consultant for 25 years. My currently hourly rate of pay, net after tax, NI contributions, NHS pension is approximately £26.50.


    What do you earn gross? Traditionally people quote their salary before deductions.

    Why? Are you going to pull his salary apart and then say something along the lines of "It's a handsome salary that others won't get near ever"? Neatly sidestepping the fact he had dedicated X amount of years study to get his salary?

    Being a consultant ain't yer average job.
  • tangled_metaltangled_metal Posts: 4,023
    Oh you poor doctors. If it was so.bad why did you choose it.

    On an aside what value do you put on highly qualified professionals on other sectors? Do you rate a doctor over another occupation that has similar levels of training? IME doctors are put on a high pedestal that I'm not totally sure is worthy.

    For example, I know a now retired civil engineer who did.a 4 years degree, a further 4 years on the job training, professional review process that involved written evidence or exams before they became a chartered engineer. Then as part of his professional responsibilities he's supposed to continue his training and development continually. In reality he is required to go on training courses regularly to keep up to date but also to allow access to certain work sites. As to the work, he's designing highways to meet required codes but takes in so much including user safety. Then site work includes a hell of a lot of safety. These new builds were big sites with a lot going on. As consultant engineers his firm was in charge of making.sure contractors do things right. Huge concrete pours that if done wrong could result in failure. All for a lot less than doctors. Hours? A lot in his early career I believe.

    Anyway I agree doctors do a lot of training in their career, it's a stressful career with huge responsibilities and deserves money/respect. I just believe that there are other professions that deserve respect and.acknowledgment for what they do. It's easy to respect/value doctors but not easy for ppl to value other highly significant professions in the modern world. Professional engineers (as in chartered level upwards).

    Sorry off topic but whenever someone defends doctors it starts to sound a bit like we should be hearing violins. Reality it's a profession they chose. They were not forced into it and at least they're often highly respected despite their often experienced faults. Faults such as arrogance, attitude and other things such as poor communication with patients. In some ways I feel it's nurses who deal with patients and doctors deal with symptoms/conditions. Although with changes in training from on the job to degree training for nurses they're starting to become more doctor-like.

    Sorry I've had 5 years experiencing poor quality treatment. If only we weren't so English about complaining. We've certainly had plenty of cause. It's why I'm not really feeling sorry for you poor doctors.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 18,270
    ExCyclist wrote:
    xdoc wrote:
    But the doctors here are greedy - they are overpaid.
    Okay fishfish, let me give you some FACTS!

    I've been an NHS Consultant for 25 years. My currently hourly rate of pay, net after tax, NI contributions, NHS pension is approximately £26.50.


    What do you earn gross? Traditionally people quote their salary before deductions.

    Why? Are you going to pull his salary apart and then say something along the lines of "It's a handsome salary that others won't get near ever"? Neatly sidestepping the fact he had dedicated X amount of years study to get his salary?

    Being a consultant ain't yer average job.
    If you want to work it out, you can make a reasonable guess by just reversing the calculation. He does alright, but there are many vastly more lucrative careers.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • xdocxdoc Posts: 331
    I'm not looking for sympathy at all, and of course no one forced me to study Medicine,
    I'm not complaining about how much I'm paid.
    There are other professions that are equally worthwhile/valuable to society.
    It just pisses me off when Daily Mail readers like fishfish accuse me of being greedy and over paid FACT with nothing to back it up.
    So I've given fishfish some facts to consider, if he and others still think I'm greedy and overpaid, so be it.
  • ExCyclistExCyclist Posts: 336
    rjsterry wrote:
    ExCyclist wrote:
    xdoc wrote:
    But the doctors here are greedy - they are overpaid.
    Okay fishfish, let me give you some FACTS!

    I've been an NHS Consultant for 25 years. My currently hourly rate of pay, net after tax, NI contributions, NHS pension is approximately £26.50.


    What do you earn gross? Traditionally people quote their salary before deductions.

    Why? Are you going to pull his salary apart and then say something along the lines of "It's a handsome salary that others won't get near ever"? Neatly sidestepping the fact he had dedicated X amount of years study to get his salary?

    Being a consultant ain't yer average job.
    If you want to work it out, you can make a reasonable guess by just reversing the calculation. He does alright, but there are many vastly more lucrative careers.

    I was hoping you didn't go down the 'other career route' but you did.
    As per the other poster about the engineering guy - no one is comparing careers but come on fellas - don't believe all you read and pit person against person as that is wrong in society.

    Unless you're a reporter for the DM then you can nack him.
  • narbsnarbs Posts: 639
    veronese68 wrote:
    Poor trolling from fishfish. That or he is Jeremy Hunt.

    Probably coopster/Stevo's third login.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 39,392
    Boy this thread has gone off topic...

    May as well keep it up eh? I spent the best part of 11 years going in and out of hospital. I've had great consultants , i've had mediocre consultants but overall, the NHS is a fantastic institution that's at breaking point because we have lost one of the main pillars of the NHS: preventative medicine.

    An ageing population, an unhealthy population, a burgeoning population - where does it end? We can't just keep throwing money at the coal face. The ticking time bomb has now gone off. I can't get an ordinary GP appointment for 4 weeks. I have had to resort (just today in fact) to pulling strings through the Haematology department just to get seen.
    My GP practice is short of 7 doctors out of a full capacity of 21.
    If Doctors have to go through years of training for a career in a service which will entail too many hours, mistakes are going to be made and more importantly, it's hardly going to be an enticing career.

    If you want to talk about the over paid Fishfish, let's talk about footballers, merchant bankers, executive pay, and CEO's.
    In fact, I actually think the PM is underpaid - despite the fact that I am not keen on TM. The job with the most responsibility in the UK and you don't get much for it.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 18,270
    ExCyclist wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    ExCyclist wrote:
    xdoc wrote:
    But the doctors here are greedy - they are overpaid.
    Okay fishfish, let me give you some FACTS!

    I've been an NHS Consultant for 25 years. My currently hourly rate of pay, net after tax, NI contributions, NHS pension is approximately £26.50.


    What do you earn gross? Traditionally people quote their salary before deductions.

    Why? Are you going to pull his salary apart and then say something along the lines of "It's a handsome salary that others won't get near ever"? Neatly sidestepping the fact he had dedicated X amount of years study to get his salary?

    Being a consultant ain't yer average job.
    If you want to work it out, you can make a reasonable guess by just reversing the calculation. He does alright, but there are many vastly more lucrative careers.

    I was hoping you didn't go down the 'other career route' but you did.
    As per the other poster about the engineering guy - no one is comparing careers but come on fellas - don't believe all you read and pit person against person as that is wrong in society.

    Unless you're a reporter for the DM then you can nack him.
    I was making the point that if it was all about the money then he probably wouldn't be a doctor in the first place. Someone's salary is just a reflection of the economics around their particular role. It's not a representation of a person's value to society.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • hopkinbhopkinb Posts: 5,692
    Oh you poor doctors. If it was so.bad why did you choose it.

    On an aside what value do you put on highly qualified professionals on other sectors? Do you rate a doctor over another occupation that has similar levels of training? IME doctors are put on a high pedestal that I'm not totally sure is worthy.

    For example, I know a now retired civil engineer who did.a 4 years degree, a further 4 years on the job training, professional review process that involved written evidence or exams before they became a chartered engineer. Then as part of his professional responsibilities he's supposed to continue his training and development continually. In reality he is required to go on training courses regularly to keep up to date but also to allow access to certain work sites. As to the work, he's designing highways to meet required codes but takes in so much including user safety. Then site work includes a hell of a lot of safety. These new builds were big sites with a lot going on. As consultant engineers his firm was in charge of making.sure contractors do things right. Huge concrete pours that if done wrong could result in failure. All for a lot less than doctors. Hours? A lot in his early career I believe.

    Anyway I agree doctors do a lot of training in their career, it's a stressful career with huge responsibilities and deserves money/respect. I just believe that there are other professions that deserve respect and.acknowledgment for what they do. It's easy to respect/value doctors but not easy for ppl to value other highly significant professions in the modern world. Professional engineers (as in chartered level upwards).

    Sorry off topic but whenever someone defends doctors it starts to sound a bit like we should be hearing violins. Reality it's a profession they chose. They were not forced into it and at least they're often highly respected despite their often experienced faults. Faults such as arrogance, attitude and other things such as poor communication with patients. In some ways I feel it's nurses who deal with patients and doctors deal with symptoms/conditions. Although with changes in training from on the job to degree training for nurses they're starting to become more doctor-like.

    Sorry I've had 5 years experiencing poor quality treatment. If only we weren't so English about complaining. We've certainly had plenty of cause. It's why I'm not really feeling sorry for you poor doctors.

    I spent 12 years constantly in hospital with a severely ill child and though sometimes there are some frustrations involved due to delays, by and large the NHS is an amazing organization, with dedicated and professional staff, who provided the very highest quality treatment and care from her birth to her death. The thing is, they have to ration their services, because we don't really like paying tax, so budgets are being squeezed. Therefore you'll be treated according to clinical need. We all think we're really important, and so don't like that, because we think we should be seen straightaway for every little ailment, and be treated like a king. If you want that, buy BUPA cover. If you are chronically or critically ill, the NHS will treat you. Also, if you have a complaint with a particular doctor, it's really pretty easy to do something about that in the modern NHS.

    Does my anecdote trump your anecdote? Being in hospital a lot, I saw many many different people, and some people, getting the same treatment & care from the same clinical team, just liked to complain. It made them feel special I think, or made them feel they had some power over a situation they couldn't control.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    i am sick to death about hearing about this non news story, its a personal tragedy for the boys family and friends, its being played out like some some sort of reality TV story and it shouldn't.

    Shitte happens in life, this poor baby could never have been made well, given current med knowledge and i would rather the focus was on the preventable things that kill and maim children.

    As my daughter said "we allow abortions on perfectly healthy and sustainable fetuses but make a huge fuss about this baby, at what point is a baby considered alive Dad?"
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,757
    xdoc wrote:
    I'm not looking for sympathy at all, and of course no one forced me to study Medicine,
    I'm not complaining about how much I'm paid.
    There are other professions that are equally worthwhile/valuable to society.
    It just pisses me off when Daily Mail readers like fishfish accuse me of being greedy and over paid FACT with nothing to back it up.
    So I've given fishfish some facts to consider, if he and others still think I'm greedy and overpaid, so be it.

    Im not gonna wade into salary debates on this side step of the topic. But my daughter was only saying yesterday after finishing a 13 hour shift at the NF Show that she has the full respect of nurses and doctors. They have to pull similar if not longer shifts. And those shifts require them to be on their mettle all the time, as its patients lives at stake. Not building bridges, stacking shelves or fiddling some corporations' taxes.

    Back on track. As a parent, I hope I'm never in the position of Charlie Gard's parents. Very sad indeed.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 7,736
    Mr Goo wrote:
    ...And those shifts require them to be on their mettle all the time, as its patients lives at stake. Not building bridges, stacking shelves or fiddling some corporations' taxes...

    Steady on what you're listing together, when deciding who needs - or not - to be on their mettle at all times. Or you're in danger of showing ignorance.
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
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  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,757
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    ...And those shifts require them to be on their mettle all the time, as its patients lives at stake. Not building bridges, stacking shelves or fiddling some corporations' taxes...

    Steady on what you're listing together, when deciding who needs - or not - to be on their mettle at all times. Or you're in danger of showing ignorance.


    Merely pointing out that some jobs have more importance where lives are concerned ,ie; doctors and nurses have to be 100% alert at all times. Some other jobs too, Air Traffic Control, pilot, train driver, lorry driver, soldier on front line, soldier on guard duty..... there is quite a list.

    But I would say they are in a bracket far removed from tax accountant, civil engineering, stock broker, gardener, teacher, waiter or supermarket work.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • bendertherobotbendertherobot Posts: 11,655
    Live commentary (yes) from the BBC's Joshua Rozenberg on Twitter. The Judge is having a right go at social media, Cruz, Trump etc.
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  • lesfirthlesfirth Posts: 1,088
    mamba80 wrote:
    i am sick to death about hearing about this non news story, its a personal tragedy for the boys family and friends, its being played out like some some sort of reality TV story and it shouldn't.

    Shitte happens in life, this poor baby could never have been made well, given current med knowledge and i would rather the focus was on the preventable things that kill and maim children.

    As my daughter said "we allow abortions on perfectly healthy and sustainable fetuses but make a huge fuss about this baby, at what point is a baby considered alive Dad?"

    I agree. Months ago they should have let poor Charlie go, get on with life, have another baby and enjoy the rest of their lives. Charlie would be a short sad time but as mamba says " shitte happens," deal with it. Millions in this world will have far bigger piles of shitte thrown at them.
  • meanredspidermeanredspider Posts: 12,550
    Henry Marsh, the brain surgeon who wrote the book "Do No Harm" amongst other things, had a very clear view on this, very much in line with lesfirth's stated view: let him go and have another child.

    The trouble is that people tend to get outraged on other people's behalf these days. Life can chuck some shitte at you and you just have to manage it.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • bendertherobotbendertherobot Posts: 11,655
    Francis J has been very patient in his dealing of this case. I sense that patience is being tested a little today.
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  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 18,270
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    ...And those shifts require them to be on their mettle all the time, as its patients lives at stake. Not building bridges, stacking shelves or fiddling some corporations' taxes...

    Steady on what you're listing together, when deciding who needs - or not - to be on their mettle at all times. Or you're in danger of showing ignorance.


    Merely pointing out that some jobs have more importance where lives are concerned ,ie; doctors and nurses have to be 100% alert at all times. Some other jobs too, Air Traffic Control, pilot, train driver, lorry driver, soldier on front line, soldier on guard duty..... there is quite a list.

    But I would say they are in a bracket far removed from tax accountant, civil engineering, stock broker, gardener, teacher, waiter or supermarket work.
    Sure, I mean what can possibly go wrong with a poorly designed bridge or building? We all play our part.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,757
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    ...And those shifts require them to be on their mettle all the time, as its patients lives at stake. Not building bridges, stacking shelves or fiddling some corporations' taxes...

    Steady on what you're listing together, when deciding who needs - or not - to be on their mettle at all times. Or you're in danger of showing ignorance.


    Merely pointing out that some jobs have more importance where lives are concerned ,ie; doctors and nurses have to be 100% alert at all times. Some other jobs too, Air Traffic Control, pilot, train driver, lorry driver, soldier on front line, soldier on guard duty..... there is quite a list.

    But I would say they are in a bracket far removed from tax accountant, civil engineering, stock broker, gardener, teacher, waiter or supermarket work.
    Sure, I mean what can possibly go wrong with a poorly designed bridge or building? We all play our part.

    Bridges and buildings aren't designed or built on the spur of the moment. There are layers upon layers of process and checking and double checking and signing off on each element of design.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • lesfirthlesfirth Posts: 1,088
    Bl00dy hell!
    I know we tend to go a bit off topic from time to time but this thread sets new standards!
    If you want to vent your left wing views start your own thread.
    I just hope that in the next couple of days,despite his parents, we can say" RIP little Charlie".
  • sungodsungod Posts: 12,820
    Mr Goo wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    ...And those shifts require them to be on their mettle all the time, as its patients lives at stake. Not building bridges, stacking shelves or fiddling some corporations' taxes...

    Steady on what you're listing together, when deciding who needs - or not - to be on their mettle at all times. Or you're in danger of showing ignorance.


    Merely pointing out that some jobs have more importance where lives are concerned ,ie; doctors and nurses have to be 100% alert at all times. Some other jobs too, Air Traffic Control, pilot, train driver, lorry driver, soldier on front line, soldier on guard duty..... there is quite a list.

    But I would say they are in a bracket far removed from tax accountant, civil engineering, stock broker, gardener, teacher, waiter or supermarket work.
    Sure, I mean what can possibly go wrong with a poorly designed bridge or building? We all play our part.

    Bridges and buildings aren't designed or built on the spur of the moment. There are layers upon layers of process and checking and double checking and signing off on each element of design.

    ^^^this

    back in the 80's i used to design test procedures and devices for electronic systems that were safety critical, as well as systems themselves, failure could injure or kill, or simply cause damage to/loss of extremely expensive structures

    but i had the opportunity for self-review/peer-review of what i did, time to test what i did, and the informal rule was that you tried it first yourself, self-preservation added incentive, and serious adrenaline rush when trying it for real the first time

    i wasn't faced with making decisions about someone's health or life on the spot with no way back if i got it wrong

    i've had doctors who i think blew it, and others that saved my life, overall i think our medical profession is one to be proud of

    and, back on topic again, the charade continues, this is about the parents' denial of reality, not the poor kid, he was gone a long time ago
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 7,736
    lesfirth wrote:
    Bl00dy hell!
    I know we tend to go a bit off topic from time to time but this thread sets new standards!
    If you want to vent your left wing views start your own thread.
    I just hope that in the next couple of days,despite his parents, we can say" RIP little Charlie".

    If you're familiar with other threads on these fora then you'll know that there are posters, of varying political leaning, all in general agreement with each other on this topic.

    Left wing, right wing has little to do with it. Most agree Farage should've kept his grubby face out of it.
    Ben

    Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
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  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 18,270
    Mr Goo wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    ...And those shifts require them to be on their mettle all the time, as its patients lives at stake. Not building bridges, stacking shelves or fiddling some corporations' taxes...

    Steady on what you're listing together, when deciding who needs - or not - to be on their mettle at all times. Or you're in danger of showing ignorance.


    Merely pointing out that some jobs have more importance where lives are concerned ,ie; doctors and nurses have to be 100% alert at all times. Some other jobs too, Air Traffic Control, pilot, train driver, lorry driver, soldier on front line, soldier on guard duty..... there is quite a list.

    But I would say they are in a bracket far removed from tax accountant, civil engineering, stock broker, gardener, teacher, waiter or supermarket work.
    Sure, I mean what can possibly go wrong with a poorly designed bridge or building? We all play our part.

    Bridges and buildings aren't designed or built on the spur of the moment. There are layers upon layers of process and checking and double checking and signing off on each element of design.
    Not all doctors work in A&E. It's not all spur of the moment life and death decisions. And there is plenty of checking and peer review as well. Everybody needs safety systems.

    I'm not trying to diminish the profession; my point was that lots of people have to think very carefully about what they do, with serious consequences if they don't. I'm not sure it is helpful to put the medical profession or any other on a pedestal - to them or us.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,757
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    ...And those shifts require them to be on their mettle all the time, as its patients lives at stake. Not building bridges, stacking shelves or fiddling some corporations' taxes...

    Steady on what you're listing together, when deciding who needs - or not - to be on their mettle at all times. Or you're in danger of showing ignorance.


    Merely pointing out that some jobs have more importance where lives are concerned ,ie; doctors and nurses have to be 100% alert at all times. Some other jobs too, Air Traffic Control, pilot, train driver, lorry driver, soldier on front line, soldier on guard duty..... there is quite a list.

    But I would say they are in a bracket far removed from tax accountant, civil engineering, stock broker, gardener, teacher, waiter or supermarket work.
    Sure, I mean what can possibly go wrong with a poorly designed bridge or building? We all play our part.

    Bridges and buildings aren't designed or built on the spur of the moment. There are layers upon layers of process and checking and double checking and signing off on each element of design.
    Not all doctors work in A&E. It's not all spur of the moment life and death decisions. And there is plenty of checking and peer review as well. Everybody needs safety systems.

    I'm not trying to diminish the profession; my point was that lots of people have to think very carefully about what they do, with serious consequences if they don't. I'm not sure it is helpful to put the medical profession or any other on a pedestal - to them or us.

    Fair enough.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Ben6899 wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    ...And those shifts require them to be on their mettle all the time, as its patients lives at stake. Not building bridges, stacking shelves or fiddling some corporations' taxes...

    Steady on what you're listing together, when deciding who needs - or not - to be on their mettle at all times. Or you're in danger of showing ignorance.


    Merely pointing out that some jobs have more importance where lives are concerned ,ie; doctors and nurses have to be 100% alert at all times. Some other jobs too, Air Traffic Control, pilot, train driver, lorry driver, soldier on front line, soldier on guard duty..... there is quite a list.

    But I would say they are in a bracket far removed from tax accountant, civil engineering, stock broker, gardener, teacher, waiter or supermarket work.
    Sure, I mean what can possibly go wrong with a poorly designed bridge or building? We all play our part.

    Bridges and buildings aren't designed or built on the spur of the moment. There are layers upon layers of process and checking and double checking and signing off on each element of design.
    Not all doctors work in A&E. It's not all spur of the moment life and death decisions. And there is plenty of checking and peer review as well. Everybody needs safety systems.

    I'm not trying to diminish the profession; my point was that lots of people have to think very carefully about what they do, with serious consequences if they don't. I'm not sure it is helpful to put the medical profession or any other on a pedestal - to them or us.

    It sounds like you ve chip on your shoulder, without health none of us can play our part... its true many professions are important to every day life but perhaps none are quite so exposed to the consequences of their actions as a Doctor, be it a GP who makes the wrong call about that rash, the Psychiatrist who recommends the release of a person who goes onto kill or an AE junior Dr who fails to spot that internal bleed.

    Most of the jobs you mentioned have a "right and wrong" way of doing things, this just isnt true of people and the vast amount of afflictions they can suffer.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 13,178
    mamba80 wrote:
    It sounds like you ve chip on your shoulder, without health none of us can play our part... its true many professions are important to every day life but perhaps none are quite so exposed to the consequences of their actions as a Doctor, be it a GP who makes the wrong call about that rash, the Psychiatrist who recommends the release of a person who goes onto kill or an AE junior Dr who fails to spot that internal bleed.

    Most of the jobs you mentioned have a "right and wrong" way of doing things, this just isnt true of people and the vast amount of afflictions they can suffer.
    Recently, a patient went to an A&E which was understaffed, and the staff consequently over worked.
    The patient was diagnosed with heartburn, given Gaviscon, and sent home. He died within hours from the heart attack.
    I wouldn't want to be the patient, the patient's family, nor the staff involved.
    Mistakes can be made in engineering, architecture etc, but there is usually enough time to find and resolve those mistakes.
    IMO the consequences and pressures are much more immediate and personal in health care.
    Back on topic. There was never going to be a "right" decision, only we hope, the least bad one.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
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