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Charlie Gard

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  • FingerbobsFingerbobs Posts: 39
    FishFish wrote:
    FishFish wrote:

    I can see that the only people working to try to maintain a free-at-the-point-of-use NHS are the NHS frontline staff.


    This is my point. They want no restrictions in what they can spend taxpayer money on. This is totally unrealistic and unfair on taxpayers. And lets not forget that even poorly paid nurses come fourth in graduate salaries five years down the line.

    The medical profession are a law unto themselves and the greediest parasites in the country. FACT.


    I fear that with a mentality like that, one day this country will get the health service it deserves, but it will be a far cry from the type of one it really wants and needs.

    A privately based health care system will profit the insurance companies, and the physicians and surgeons whose skills will be paid for at market rate, which is considerably more than NHS rate. Yet those same NHS Doctors that would most likely profit financially from a private system are among the ones most vehemently against it. Not what you'd expect from who you have labelled "the greediest parasites in the country".

    Sickness and death comes to us all. In countries like the USA, sickness, be it mild to moderate chronic disease or acute severe illness ( heart attack, appendicitis etc), comes with crippling financial cost to the individual.

    The national tariff (what the UK government pay NHS hospitals) for a hip replacement is LESS than the VARIABILITY of the cost across of a hip replacement across the USofA! (American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgery conference 2017).

    Believe the likes of the Daily Mail brigade if you want, but it will be your loss and my gain.

    I will keep fighting for the free at the point of delivery NHS.

    DOI Consultant Trauma and Orthopaedic Surgeon. And sorry for the capitals, not meaning to shout but I couldn't get emphasis with italics or bold. It is FACT though ;)
  • crispybug2crispybug2 Posts: 2,938
    Lord Robert Winston who I think is rightly regarded as this country and the worlds leading physician has had his say and I think it's worth repeating

    "I have looked up Dr Hirano and what he has written- the fact of the matter is that they have not published details that show clearly that they could have changed the boys life and the prognosis of the disease.
    I have to say that it was rather wicked to give the parents the idea that somehow had this baby been treated earlier it would have made a difference.
    That is not our experience with this disease"

    Wow, that is a very diplomatic censored -slapping!!
  • tangled_metaltangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    NHS isn't completely free at the point of delivery. There's a private system within it. GPs are private contractors that are free (subject to a fixed prescription charge per script) but dentists aren't. Even the rare practices that are NHS charge through the NHS charging structure. Imagine GPs doing that! Then again that's not really an issue now since all our local dentists within a 15 mile radius are private now. You can't sign up as a new NHS patient anywhere. If you're lucky enough to already be an NHS patient your practice is in the process of changing to private. Any little excuse they'll knock you off their NHS list and you'll have to go private with them. Tricks like if you don't visit them in the prescribed timescale you're out. If you're even a couple of minutes late by their timepiece you're out. The last one happened to me, I was 30 seconds out according to my watch (radio watch updated to rugby signal overnight) but their clock was 5 minutes fast. I dislike late attendees, I think it disrespectful and this was one of the rare cases I've been late for doctor or dentist. However when the dentist was actually running over an hour late it's a bit much. Plus I was off the NHS list as it was converting to 100% private. BTW I've not needed a dentist for about 5 years. Don't intend on seeing one again, mostly because of excellent dental.hygiene and good genes I reckon.

    Sorry rant over. I have this thing about NHS dentistry when talks come up over NHS being wonderful. It's one aspect that's poor.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 13,102
    NHS isn't completely free at the point of delivery. There's a private system within it. GPs are private contractors that are free (subject to a fixed prescription charge per script) but dentists aren't. Even the rare practices that are NHS charge through the NHS charging structure. Imagine GPs doing that! Then again that's not really an issue now since all our local dentists within a 15 mile radius are private now. You can't sign up as a new NHS patient anywhere. If you're lucky enough to already be an NHS patient your practice is in the process of changing to private. Any little excuse they'll knock you off their NHS list and you'll have to go private with them. Tricks like if you don't visit them in the prescribed timescale you're out. If you're even a couple of minutes late by their timepiece you're out. The last one happened to me, I was 30 seconds out according to my watch (radio watch updated to rugby signal overnight) but their clock was 5 minutes fast. I dislike late attendees, I think it disrespectful and this was one of the rare cases I've been late for doctor or dentist. However when the dentist was actually running over an hour late it's a bit much. Plus I was off the NHS list as it was converting to 100% private. BTW I've not needed a dentist for about 5 years. Don't intend on seeing one again, mostly because of excellent dental.hygiene and good genes I reckon.

    Sorry rant over. I have this thing about NHS dentistry when talks come up over NHS being wonderful. It's one aspect that's poor.
    I worry that a trip to the GP will end up being the same as a trip to the dentist today. I fear for the future and hope to be wrong.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • bendertherobotbendertherobot Posts: 11,655
    NHS isn't completely free at the point of delivery. There's a private system within it. GPs are private contractors that are free (subject to a fixed prescription charge per script) but dentists aren't. Even the rare practices that are NHS charge through the NHS charging structure. Imagine GPs doing that! Then again that's not really an issue now since all our local dentists within a 15 mile radius are private now. You can't sign up as a new NHS patient anywhere. If you're lucky enough to already be an NHS patient your practice is in the process of changing to private. Any little excuse they'll knock you off their NHS list and you'll have to go private with them. Tricks like if you don't visit them in the prescribed timescale you're out. If you're even a couple of minutes late by their timepiece you're out. The last one happened to me, I was 30 seconds out according to my watch (radio watch updated to rugby signal overnight) but their clock was 5 minutes fast. I dislike late attendees, I think it disrespectful and this was one of the rare cases I've been late for doctor or dentist. However when the dentist was actually running over an hour late it's a bit much. Plus I was off the NHS list as it was converting to 100% private. BTW I've not needed a dentist for about 5 years. Don't intend on seeing one again, mostly because of excellent dental.hygiene and good genes I reckon.

    Sorry rant over. I have this thing about NHS dentistry when talks come up over NHS being wonderful. It's one aspect that's poor.

    Sounds poor. But most have a three strike rule. Was yours a one strike? Did you follow the practice complaints policy? I could bore you endlessly with how it is from the other side. Particularly people ringing up for emergency treatment pretending to be patients of the practice........
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  • bendertherobotbendertherobot Posts: 11,655
    https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/ ... july-2017/

    It's a very easy to read judgment. Para 12 is quite interesting in relation to the diplomatic smackdown referenced a few posts above.
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  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 11,982
    https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/great-ormond-street-hospital-v-yates-and-gard-24-july-2017/

    It's a very easy to read judgment. Para 12 is quite interesting in relation to the diplomatic smackdown referenced a few posts above.

    Thanks for posting.
  • tangled_metaltangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Seriously it's the practice. My partner called to sign up as a private patient and got serious attitude. It's the receptionist with attitude making the decisions it seems. However I've been kicked off a few lists because I resent paying to sit in a waiting room for 2 hours only to sit in a dentists chair for less time than it took me to walk down the corridor to the treatment room. Unfortunately I'm one of those patients who's never had fillings or any dental treatment and probably never will.

    Come back in 6 months they used to say. Don't see the point. I'll see them in 18 months just before they knock me off the list. Just wish I was that organized hence the list removals. My own fault that but not the complete privatisation of local dental services. Greedy bustards aren't content with NHS money. If you want to help ppl become a doctor, if you want to make money become a dentist.
  • bendertherobotbendertherobot Posts: 11,655
    https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/great-ormond-street-hospital-v-yates-and-gard-24-july-2017/

    It's a very easy to read judgment. Para 12 is quite interesting in relation to the diplomatic smackdown referenced a few posts above.

    Thanks for posting.

    It's only the latest judgment remember, there have been several others.
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  • hopkinbhopkinb Posts: 5,680
    All the judgments from the original through to the ECHR are linked below the most recent judgment.
  • bendertherobotbendertherobot Posts: 11,655
    Farage has a contrary view, of course.
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  • hopkinbhopkinb Posts: 5,680
    Farage has a contrary view, of course.

    What the actual fugg does it have to do with that cnut?
  • narbsnarbs Posts: 639
    Farage has a contrary view, of course.

    Just when you think someone couldn't repulse you more, they play a blinder.
  • bendertherobotbendertherobot Posts: 11,655
    narbs wrote:
    Farage has a contrary view, of course.

    Just when you think someone couldn't repulse you more, they play a blinder.

    Indeed.
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  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 7,706
    Even the treatment he wanted to try was so experimental it hasn't even been used on mice. I fear the poor boy was becoming a pro-life football, the 'save charlie' crowds outside GOSH after the father spoke were disgraceful, with their non-stop chanting 'justice for charlie'... who's agendas are they chasing?

    Nigel Farage's.
    Ben

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  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    just read what he said... farage aspiring to be the dirt on piers morgan or katie hopkins shoe
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Farage continued: “The medical profession, for all the good work they do, they’re not always right.

    “I’ve seen instances in my life where I was severely misdiagnosed 30 years ago - doctors are not always right!”

    oh but they where right Nigel, they diagnosed you were a self serving, self important, narcissistic cnut?
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • bendertherobotbendertherobot Posts: 11,655
    http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-pres ... -july-2017

    The GOSH position statement is very well written too.
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  • bendertherobotbendertherobot Posts: 11,655
    HHJ Francis will now need to rule, again, in relation to the application to take Charlie home with a portable ventilator.
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  • hopkinbhopkinb Posts: 5,680
    HHJ Francis will now need to rule, again, in relation to the application to take Charlie home with a portable ventilator.

    Hard to see how he will rule in favour, given that as per his judgment, the overriding factor he has to consider is the child's welfare?
  • ExCyclistExCyclist Posts: 336
    FishFish wrote:
    FishFish wrote:

    I can see that the only people working to try to maintain a free-at-the-point-of-use NHS are the NHS frontline staff.


    This is my point. They want no restrictions in what they can spend taxpayer money on. This is totally unrealistic and unfair on taxpayers. And lets not forget that even poorly paid nurses come fourth in graduate salaries five years down the line.

    The medical profession are a law unto themselves and the greediest parasites in the country. FACT.

    do you or your family, use the NHS?
  • FishFishFishFish Posts: 2,238
    Yes of course.

    And we use banks too.

    And use med services abroad where there is no health service for foreigners.

    But the doctors here are greedy - they are overpaid.
    ...take your pickelf on your holibobs.... :D

    jeez :roll:
  • crispybug2crispybug2 Posts: 2,938
    FishFish wrote:
    Yes of course.

    And we use banks too.

    And use med services abroad where there is no health service for foreigners.

    But the doctors here are greedy - they are overpaid.

    Sorry to simplify this but....

    One of my friends is a radiologist who is employed by my local NHS hospital (which is according to inspections far from a 'good' hospital) she could easily increase her wages significantly by quitting the NHS and being employed on agency rates but she doesn't because she believes in the NHS and she is far from unique in this respect

    So how is she "greedy and overpaid "?
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    Seems to me that if anyone "deserves" to live comfortably, or even dare I say it, better than just "comfortably", it's someone who spent God knows how long training, doing an extremely tough degree, and then works long and unsociable hours.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • dinyulldinyull Posts: 2,962
    Anyone else think the parents should spend all the time they have to be by his side, instead of going to court again in an attempt to take him home.

    I can't begin to imagine what they have been and are going through, but the time and cost associated for him to be taken home could be used to treat other poorly children.

    I'd hate to think of how much money GOSH has wasted fighting this case over the past 5 months.
  • ExCyclistExCyclist Posts: 336
    FishFish wrote:
    Yes of course.

    And we use banks too.

    And use med services abroad where there is no health service for foreigners.

    But the doctors here are greedy - they are overpaid.

    So you're happy to slate those who can save your life (or your families lives) and call them greedy for expecting a decent pay level that in all honesty they deserve because if someone is willing to spend X amount of years training to become that skilled that they may save my life or a dependent then they're worth every fcking penny in my book. And more.

    The single thing is people like you are bitter, detached and jealous of others. Maybe you need a reality check but firstly I'd advocate you sign up for private health insurance so you don't waste anyone in my professions time.

    You moron!
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,631 Lives Here
    Whole disagreement follows a basic misunderstanding;

    The Dr's remit is exclusively on the patient; is it in the patient's interest or not. That's why they've been pretty consistent.

    Press etc seems exclusively focused on the parents: 'wouldn't any parent want to do everything they could blah blah'.
  • xdocxdoc Posts: 331
    But the doctors here are greedy - they are overpaid.
    Okay fishfish, let me give you some FACTS!

    I've been an NHS Consultant for 25 years. My currently hourly rate of pay, net after tax, NI contributions, NHS pension is approximately £26.50.

    To earn that greedy amount I spent 5 years flogging myself through medical school, spent another 9 years as a junior doctor and trainee, sometimes working 100 hour weeks and being paid a 1/3 the hourly rate for overtime, frequently having to move hospitals after 6 months and often staying in fairly grim hospital accommodation. I was still having to sit various examinations until the age of 30.

    Oh, and out of that £26.50 an hour I have to pay subs to my medical defence organisation, my Royal College of which I'm a fellow, and the GMC (a registered charity who are there to protect the patients!!) and if they were any good as a Union I would also have to pay subs to the BMA.

    I get no perks. No company car, no private medical insurance. I have the choice of paying my Trust £500 per year for the privilege of parking on site with no guaranteed parking space or use the hospital park and ride, which is free :D

    And because of the chronic under funding and reduced training numbers overseen by successive Governments there is a shortage of Consultants in my speciality, which means I'm currently working alongside overseas locums who are probably being paid 4 or 5 times what I am for doing the same job!

    And if I make an error (and I'm human so yes, I'll make errors) that error could result in serious harm, reduced life expectancy , or permanent damage/disability to a fellow human being. Something I have to live with all for £26.50 an hour.

    So Fishfish, are you still envious of this greedy NHS doctor. 8)
  • ExCyclistExCyclist Posts: 336
    xdoc wrote:
    But the doctors here are greedy - they are overpaid.
    Okay fishfish, let me give you some FACTS!

    I've been an NHS Consultant for 25 years. My currently hourly rate of pay, net after tax, NI contributions, NHS pension is approximately £26.50.

    To earn that greedy amount I spent 5 years flogging myself through medical school, spent another 9 years as a junior doctor and trainee, sometimes working 100 hour weeks and being paid a 1/3 the hourly rate for overtime, frequently having to move hospitals after 6 months and often staying in fairly grim hospital accommodation. I was still having to sit various examinations until the age of 30.

    Oh, and out of that £26.50 an hour I have to pay subs to my medical defence organisation, my Royal College of which I'm a fellow, and the GMC (a registered charity who are there to protect the patients!!) and if they were any good as a Union I would also have to pay subs to the BMA.

    I get no perks. No company car, no private medical insurance. I have the choice of paying my Trust £500 per year for the privilege of parking on site with no guaranteed parking space or use the hospital park and ride, which is free :D

    And because of the chronic under funding and reduced training numbers overseen by successive Governments there is a shortage of Consultants in my speciality, which means I'm currently working alongside overseas locums who are probably being paid 4 or 5 times what I am for doing the same job!

    And if I make an error (and I'm human so yes, I'll make errors) that error could result in serious harm, reduced life expectancy , or permanent damage/disability to a fellow human being. Something I have to live with all for £26.50 an hour.

    So Fishfish, are you still envious of this greedy NHS doctor. 8)

    You greedy sod. Us Paramedics are on less than that and we actually treat people ;-)
  • bendertherobotbendertherobot Posts: 11,655
    xdoc wrote:
    But the doctors here are greedy - they are overpaid.
    Okay fishfish, let me give you some FACTS!

    I've been an NHS Consultant for 25 years. My currently hourly rate of pay, net after tax, NI contributions, NHS pension is approximately £26.50.

    To earn that greedy amount I spent 5 years flogging myself through medical school, spent another 9 years as a junior doctor and trainee, sometimes working 100 hour weeks and being paid a 1/3 the hourly rate for overtime, frequently having to move hospitals after 6 months and often staying in fairly grim hospital accommodation. I was still having to sit various examinations until the age of 30.

    Oh, and out of that £26.50 an hour I have to pay subs to my medical defence organisation, my Royal College of which I'm a fellow, and the GMC (a registered charity who are there to protect the patients!!) and if they were any good as a Union I would also have to pay subs to the BMA.

    I get no perks. No company car, no private medical insurance. I have the choice of paying my Trust £500 per year for the privilege of parking on site with no guaranteed parking space or use the hospital park and ride, which is free :D

    And because of the chronic under funding and reduced training numbers overseen by successive Governments there is a shortage of Consultants in my speciality, which means I'm currently working alongside overseas locums who are probably being paid 4 or 5 times what I am for doing the same job!

    And if I make an error (and I'm human so yes, I'll make errors) that error could result in serious harm, reduced life expectancy , or permanent damage/disability to a fellow human being. Something I have to live with all for £26.50 an hour.

    So Fishfish, are you still envious of this greedy NHS doctor. 8)

    Yeah, but they make you work 100 hours a week, you rich censored :D
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