TDF 2017: Rest day 2 *spoilers*

RichN95.

bobmcstuff wrote:

This Brailsford Cyclingnews thing is lols.

I wonder why he bothers. Barry Ryan is a nobody - just a poundshop Paul Kimmage

Richmond Racer 2

bobmcstuff wrote:

This Brailsford Cyclingnews thing is lols.

I keep on giggling about it

Ryan rushed off to Irish radio to whine about it :-)

RichN95.

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Ryan rushed off to Irish radio to whine about it :-)

He fancies himself as the new Kimmage. Nice gig, being seen to do journalism, without doing any journalism.

RonB

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Edward Pickering:

Atmosphere at a few team hotels today:
BMC - Business seminar
Direct Energie - Family reunion
Sky - Christmas episode of Eastenders


lmao

Cofidis - The Twilight Zone

argyllflyer

People like Ryan and Benson pander to the Twitteratti with their slavering pish. I admit I do regularly check in a CN to see what is happening, but how often to I actually click on a story? Pretty rarely as the quality is low. Conversely the print version (Pro Cycling Magazine) is an excellent, well-balanced read (IMO). The existence of the Clinic as part of that site is an embarrassment. I'm not saying that SDB has no questions to answer but writing an imbalanced opinion-heavy hatchet piece, as is CN's direction every now and then, is no way to go about getting answers. But hey, in a scenario like this, they won't like the answers anyway so the best way to avoid getting those is to (a) not ask them and (b) set your own agenda. Unfortunately a+b = potential risk of blacklist. There are plenty of genuine reporting journalists out there happy to play the game and ask the questions in the correct fashion and still get decent copy.

salsiccia1

^ All this.

tailwindhome

Some top quality bun fights on Twitter over the rest day.

My favourite tweet was the forensic photo by photo analysis of the Froome wheel swap 'questioning' the speed with which Kwiatkowski got going again but missing entirely the presence of the Mavic car

inseine

Salsiccia1 wrote:

^ All this.

Unfortunately the more general media ahs picked up this story with glee. It just goes into the general cyclists bashing that they love.

rick_chasey

When I can be bothered whenever afootnall journo decides to only tweet cycling in reference to doping I send 'em some article on Fuentes and his Real Madrid chat.

I'm all for some investigative journalism into the issue and if they find something great. Let's hear it.

You kinda feel that a lot of it is done from sofas however.

Asking shouty questions at team bosses I doubt adds much value to this process.

salsiccia1

TailWindHome wrote:

Some top quality bun fights on Twitter over the rest day.

My favourite tweet was the forensic photo by photo analysis of the Froome wheel swap 'questioning' the speed with which Kwiatkowski got going again but missing entirely the presence of the Mavic car

Genuine question on that:

Froome stopped due to a broken spoke. How much of an issue would that have been to try and continue with?

DeVlaeminck

Anything from zero to completely unrideable depending on the wheel. I imagine on a modern factory race wheel it'd be low spoke so lose one and the rim would be out of true and as a minimum rub on the brakes which would fit with him struggling to hold a wheel.

dinyull

argyllflyer wrote:

People like Ryan and Benson pander to the Twitteratti with their slavering pish. I admit I do regularly check in a CN to see what is happening, but how often to I actually click on a story? Pretty rarely as the quality is low. Conversely the print version (Pro Cycling Magazine) is an excellent, well-balanced read (IMO). The existence of the Clinic as part of that site is an embarrassment. I'm not saying that SDB has no questions to answer but writing an imbalanced opinion-heavy hatchet piece, as is CN's direction every now and then, is no way to go about getting answers. But hey, in a scenario like this, they won't like the answers anyway so the best way to avoid getting those is to (a) not ask them and (b) set your own agenda. Unfortunately a+b = potential risk of blacklist. There are plenty of genuine reporting journalists out there happy to play the game and ask the questions in the correct fashion and still get decent copy.

If they genuinely believe Sky are cheating then they want the blacklist, as that "shows" they are digging the dirt ala Walsh and Lance.

And it's good headline, being blacklisted, when they're after clickbait.

salsiccia1

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Anything from zero to completely unrideable depending on the wheel. I imagine on a modern factory race wheel it'd be low spoke so lose one and the rim would be out of true and as a minimum rub on the brakes which would fit with him struggling to hold a wheel.

Cheers. Just asking as someone on CN suggested Froome gambled on a fake mechanical in order to stop AG2R continuing the attack :roll:

Richmond Racer 2

TailWindHome wrote:

Some top quality bun fights on Twitter over the rest day.

My favourite tweet was the forensic photo by photo analysis of the Froome wheel swap 'questioning' the speed with which Kwiatkowski got going again but missing entirely the presence of the Mavic car

Mavic car pulled in after Kwiato had already done the wheel swap, I think?

Lanterne_Rogue

Dinyull wrote:

If they genuinely believe Sky are cheating then they want the blacklist, as that "shows" they are digging the dirt ala Walsh and Lance.

And it's good headline, being blacklisted, when they're after clickbait.

Brailsford has given them the headline though. Which means he's either under pressure and is cracking, or (more likely, imho) he wants the press looking at that and not somewhere else. Don't think that means Sky are doing something wrong that they want to hide though.

RichN95.

underlayunderlay wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

If they genuinely believe Sky are cheating then they want the blacklist, as that "shows" they are digging the dirt ala Walsh and Lance.

And it's good headline, being blacklisted, when they're after clickbait.

Brailsford has given them the headline though. Which means he's either under pressure and is cracking, or (more likely, imho) he wants the press looking at that and not somewhere else. Don't think that means Sky are doing something wrong that they want to hide though.

One of the golden rules of journalism: Don't become part of the story

gsk82

underlayunderlay wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

If they genuinely believe Sky are cheating then they want the blacklist, as that "shows" they are digging the dirt ala Walsh and Lance.

And it's good headline, being blacklisted, when they're after clickbait.

Brailsford has given them the headline though. Which means he's either under pressure and is cracking, or (more likely, imho) he wants the press looking at that and not somewhere else. Don't think that means Sky are doing something wrong that they want to hide though.

I suspect its neither and he's just had enough of some irritating prick making constant insinuations about him. The gut also showed up uninvited at a team event. In any other walk of life he could probably have him done for harassment.

dinyull

Yep, most can only take so much poking before lashing out.

And here was me thinking the other day that the usual "cheat" talk re. Froome/Sky has been almost non-existent this tour.

rick_chasey

AS cyclocosm pointed out, s'what happens when you study business at Sheffield Hallam, rather than a real University :P (since, y'know, I studied at the real Sheffield University).

kingstongraham

Well the teams with zero points scorers in the Velogames fantasy tour at the second rest day are Bahrain Merida and Orica Scott, which implies they have done nothing of note. We can excuse Orica, as the white jersey doesn't score points.

But Merida might as well not have shown up.

above_the_cows

TailWindHome wrote:

Some top quality bun fights on Twitter over the rest day.

My favourite tweet was the forensic photo by photo analysis of the Froome wheel swap 'questioning' the speed with which Kwiatkowski got going again but missing entirely the presence of the Mavic car

awavey

gsk82 wrote:

underlayunderlay wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

If they genuinely believe Sky are cheating then they want the blacklist, as that "shows" they are digging the dirt ala Walsh and Lance.

And it's good headline, being blacklisted, when they're after clickbait.

Brailsford has given them the headline though. Which means he's either under pressure and is cracking, or (more likely, imho) he wants the press looking at that and not somewhere else. Don't think that means Sky are doing something wrong that they want to hide though.

I suspect its neither and he's just had enough of some irritating prick making constant insinuations about him. The gut also showed up uninvited at a team event. In any other walk of life he could probably have him done for harassment.

none of the written press were invited, which even the non tin foil hat wearing among them are finding annoying, and there seems no purpose to that, the press will always turn up uninvited to events like that, its their job, most of the teams accept that part of the process as much as they hate it, and regardless the press will just carry on writing and printing the stories about Sky and Brailsford with or without their personal approval, they dont stop writing just because you dont invite them to the party, and even better they now have Brailsford swears at a reporter story to file and can completely ignore whatever it was Froome was asked/responded with, which probably wasnt going to make the headlines anyway.

it seems very illogical

RichN95.

awavey wrote:

none of the written press were invited, which even the non tin foil hat wearing among them are finding annoying, and there seems no purpose to that, the press will always turn up uninvited to events like that, its their job, most of the teams accept that part of the process as much as they hate it, and regardless the press will just carry on writing and printing the stories about Sky and Brailsford with or without their personal approval, they dont stop writing just because you dont invite them to the party, and even better they now have Brailsford swears at a reporter story to file and can completely ignore whatever it was Froome was asked/responded with, which probably wasnt going to make the headlines anyway.

it seems very illogical

But here's what happens at a Sky rest day press conference. There are two types of question that get asked.
Firstly there are questions are about the race. These are fairly dull, and get fairly dull answers. They are also exactly the same questions asked by TV and radio (who were invited) - and they have a massively larger reach than print media and are not filtered through the opinion of a writer.
The second type is the generic doping question - one that has been asked many times before. And the same questions get the same answers, but it gives the writers a justification to write another clickbait Sky doping headline. This is not in Sky's interest.

Print media just isn't important to teams any more. No-one reads reports on races they have watched and discussed online already, so they are more and more relying on 'scandal'. Already this Tour, Sky have had skinsuits, Aru's attack, Froome's swerve on Aru, no press conferences and Landa's 'treachery'. The Cycling Podcast discussed this and their best argument for having rest day press conferences was 'it's traditional'. I think most print journalists are living in a past when they were important. Why can't everyone just have a day off?

ocdupalais

Has William 'Kent Brockman' Fotheringham written a piece yet about how he, for one, welcomes the new (misguided and premature) Team Sky overlord in the wake of his much heralded call for Brailsford's head...?
Because I, for one, would very much like to see that article - along with pretty much every Cyclingnews article of the last 3 years - and then not read it.

RichN95.

OCDuPalais wrote:

Has William 'Kent Brockman' Fotheringham written a piece yet about how he, for one, welcomes the new (misguided and premature) Team Sky overlord in the wake of his much heralded call for Brailsford's head...?
Because I, for one, would very much like to see that article - along with pretty much every Cyclingnews article of the last 3 years - and then not read it.

He would save everyone a lot of trouble if just wrote an article with the headline "I didn't write Wiggins's book, that was a different William Fotheringham. I've always been suspicious of him"

awavey

RichN95 wrote:

But here's what happens at a Sky rest day press conference. There are two types of question that get asked.
Firstly there are questions are about the race. These are fairly dull, and get fairly dull answers. They are also exactly the same questions asked by TV and radio (who were invited) - and they have a massively larger reach than print media and are not filtered through the opinion of a writer.
The second type is the generic doping question - one that has been asked many times before. And the same questions get the same answers, but it gives the writers a justification to write another clickbait Sky doping headline. This is not in Sky's interest.

Print media just isn't important to teams any more. No-one reads reports on races they have watched and discussed online already, so they are more and more relying on 'scandal'. Already this Tour, Sky have had skinsuits, Aru's attack, Froome's swerve on Aru, no press conferences and Landa's 'treachery'. The Cycling Podcast discussed this and their best argument for having rest day press conferences was 'it's traditional'. I think most print journalists are living in a past when they were important. Why can't everyone just have a day off?

understandably and its annoying for them, but its same for all the teams who end up leading the race, its where the sport has got stuck on repeat for years and I dont see that changing for a long while yet. Brailsford just ended up handing them a better story on a plate, that fits all the narrative of the rubbish theyve been writing, than had he just invited them all along to the press bit, gritted a smile and answered all the usual non questions with the usual non answers and everyone would have gone away bored, no more informed, but happy theyd got something to file to their editors that day.

thats the problem just because the race pauses the journalists cant have a day off and thats not a new thing whether its selling papers, getting viewers or even web hits covering the whole race, thats I think where the press conference tradition comes from as else theyll just be hanging round team hotels all day trying to door stop team members asking the same questions/getting hopefully same answers, if you create an event they all get the same message and hopefully leave you alone the rest of the day.

and if print media isnt important to the teams, why does Dave care what they write about anyway. I dont know, it just seemed to create a mountain climb out of total molehill.

RichN95.

awavey wrote:

understandably and its annoying for them, but its same for all the teams who end up leading the race, its where the sport has got stuck on repeat for years and I dont see that changing for a long while yet.

Do you really think that's the case? If Bardet was leading now it would be a full on love in. Can France finally win the Tour again? Now admittedly AG2R didn't have a jiffy bag delivered in 2011. They did on the other hand have three riders banned for doping since then (two for EPO). And their boss was arrested during the Festina Affair.
Sky are largely singled out as a surrogate for Armstrong

awavey wrote:

thats the problem just because the race pauses the journalists cant have a day off

Of course they can. Most of them work for general newspapers, they don't have to have cycling. What do they do when there isn't a race? And there are 21 other teams. If they can't write something without a Q&A sessions being laid on for them, they must be pretty lousy journalists.

awavey wrote:

and if print media isnt important to the teams, why does Dave care what they write about anyway. I dont know, it just seemed to create a mountain climb out of total molehill.

My point wasn't about him. He's a control freak who should have ignored the bloke. My point is that print media, even digital, sport's reporting is dying a death. It is increasingly reliant of scandal and controversial opinion pieces. Sky are there to win a race, not prop up antagonistic peoples' jobs.

RichN95.

Here's the thing with print media - the journalists need to protect their need to be there

Fotheringham was mentioned earlier. Here's his report for today: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... ris-froome

All of that could be easily written by any of us sitting on our sofa watching TV and reading twitter (we would also see the whole stage and be able to rewind for a second look). There's only twenty words of quotes from anyone, which could be lifted off TV too. And most people who are likely to read it have watched the race themselves. Yet he's paid wages and expenses by a newspaper that haemorrhages money. So to justify his presence in France he needs 'on the ground' events, so they need to be manufactured if necessary.

above_the_cows

RichN95 wrote:

...My point is that print media, even digital, sport's reporting is dying a death. It is increasingly reliant of scandal and controversial opinion pieces. Sky are there to win a race, not prop up antagonistic peoples' jobs.

Preach!

above_the_cows

RichN95 wrote:

...All of that could be easily written by any of us...

I have to disagree.








Our reports would be better. They'd have cows, horses, wine and cheese as well as rider-muppet lookalikes.