Whose fault...? Discuss

Marvinman

How is it any worse than filtering when the other lane is for oncoming traffic? I think you are making an arbitrary distinction. Notionally, were the traffic flowing freely the cyclists would be riding near the kerb and at some stage indicating to join the rh lane. By filtering to the front they are leaving that to the last second and relying on finding space. That's all.

It's clear that none of them indicated to be let in and yes absolutely you should wait for the huge vehicle to pass first rather than hurl yourself under it.

However if a car found itself in the wrong lane and tried to go straight on and merge right, and if the hgv had an avoidable collision because the car strictly shouldn't have been there, would you still be saying that there was 0% liability on the hgv?

I maintain that the cyclists stupidity does not mean that all bets are off, as seems to be the general view.

I'd like to think that I have some latitude for making a mistake, because as much as I try to avoid them, mistakes and misnudgements do happen. If we all went around being hard nosed about it, there would be a lot more accidents.

Sorry I don't understand (or agree with what I think you are saying). Filtering on the left of any vehicle is very dangerous and not condoned, doing it next to a HGV is a life/death choice which all too often ends very badly. If traffic were flowing freely he would not be looking to filter so no comparison.

Filtering by entering the opposite lane is irrelevant, although your description is simply overtaking which is required to be done safely (by any road user) only when you have a clear point of entry and exit whilst giving way to oncoming traffic. He had neither a clear point of entry (as he was undertaking traffic on the left in the wrong lane) nor a clear point of exit by reaching a safe position on the other side.

A car being in the wrong lane and looking to change lanes is irrelevant as well. But as you raise it if a car in the wrong lane moves right to try and fix his mistake with a HGV already alongside him, the HGV is not at fault for that either. "Trying" to go straight on in breach of the road markings resulting in you leaving your own lane means you are at fault in my book.

All of us would like to be given leeway to make a mistake and nobody is perfect least of all me. The reality is that the cyclist was not looking for leeway for a mistake - he was trying to beat the traffic and I have not seen anything to suggest he did it by accident (in fact the contrary). If it was an accident where was his signal? Given the choice of hoping for some leeway from a HGV or making a positive decision which means I remain in control of my own destiny it is a no brainer for me.

First.Aspect

So, if I've understood, filtering inside shouldn't be done, filtering on the outside is overtaking, and filtering along another lane isn't filtering at all.

Does filtering even exist?

First.Aspect

KingstonGraham wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

However if a car found itself in the wrong lane and tried to go straight on and merge right, and if the hgv had an avoidable collision because the car strictly shouldn't have been there, would you still be saying that there was 0% liability on the hgv?

If the HGV driver didn't know about it being there until he heard the noise of his truck hitting the car, then yes.

And around again. Yes. Exactly.

veronese68

Marvinman wrote:

Filtering on the left of any vehicle is very dangerous and not condoned

Really? A lot of cyclists filter down the left because that is the way most cycle lanes are set up. Personally, I prefer to pass stationary traffic on the right. But the way the infrastructure that there is in this country is set up, it sends cyclists down the left.

fenix

I usually filter down the left - sure a car could pull in or a passenger jump out - but going down the right you can still get cars doing U turns. I think the key is to do filtering carefully - and be prepared to slam on if necessary.

First.Aspect

I see tnat I made up a new word. Misnudgements. Entirely accidental.

Oh my God that's a great pun. I am awesome today.

Marvinman

Using a cycle lane isn't filtering - its using a designated lane for defined road users in the same way as a bus lane.

As to whether filtering exists I think I was pretty clear in my last post. Bikesafe says "filtering is really just overtaking slow moving vehicles". Reality is the guy wasn't filtering anyway, so its all academic.

shipley

Jeez, this thread deserved one answer.

The cyclist is at fault.

What goes for 'normal cycling behaviour' in central London does not replace common sense or self preservation, and if said cyclist doesn't understand that he will end up an organ donor like many other ' London undertakers'