Maybe we are not doomed after all

rick_chasey

If you want an interesting read look up Enron power trading before it got regulated. Cornered the market and gouged 6th biggest economy in the world to their knees (Cali)

focuszing723

FocusZing said:

It's not just on the track that Morocco is aiming to become a world leader in renewable energy.

As well as a host nation of a Formula ePrix, the country is also home to the world's largest concentrated solar farm.

Built on an area of more than 3,000 hectares in area - the size of 3,500 football fields -- the Noor-Ouarzazate complex, produces enough electricity to power a city the size of Prague, or twice the size of Marrakesh.


Situated at the gateway to the Sahara Desert, the whole complex provides 580 megawatts -- saving the planet from over 760,000 tonnes of carbon emissions.

Imported fossil fuels currently provide for 97% of Morocco's energy need, according to World Bank . As a result the country is keen to diversify and start using renewable energy.


"Morocco is an emergent country," Yassir Badih, senior project manager at Masen told CNN.
"Electricity demand has doubled since 2010 and by 2030 we want Morocco to be one of the first countries in the world for renewables to exceed share of fossil energy."

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/06/moto ... index.html


Masen (Moroccan Agency for Sustainable Energy) is a privately owned company with public funding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_ ... ble_Energy


A great forward thinking move from Morocco with the right climate for solar energy. A reduction of reliance on other countries and a positive direction to the future.

A start up with former Tesco chief executive Sir Dave Lewis as executive chair is planning to build the world’s longest undersea electric cable, stretching 3,800km between north Africa and Britain.

Xlinks is proposing to complete the £16bn Morocco UK link by the end of this decade, delivering enough electricity to power more than 7m British homes.

It seems great Countries with the right conditions being it Wind, Solar, Water can be integrated to help distribute electricity when required.

pblakeney

focuszing723 said:

A start up with former Tesco chief executive Sir Dave Lewis as executive chair is planning to build the world’s longest undersea electric cable, stretching 3,800km between north Africa and Britain.

Xlinks is proposing to complete the £16bn Morocco UK link by the end of this decade, delivering enough electricity to power more than 7m British homes.

Nice to see that we are looking after #1.
Doesn't appear to be the most efficient use of resources though.

TheBigBean

focuszing723 said:

FocusZing said:

It's not just on the track that Morocco is aiming to become a world leader in renewable energy.

As well as a host nation of a Formula ePrix, the country is also home to the world's largest concentrated solar farm.

Built on an area of more than 3,000 hectares in area - the size of 3,500 football fields -- the Noor-Ouarzazate complex, produces enough electricity to power a city the size of Prague, or twice the size of Marrakesh.


Situated at the gateway to the Sahara Desert, the whole complex provides 580 megawatts -- saving the planet from over 760,000 tonnes of carbon emissions.

Imported fossil fuels currently provide for 97% of Morocco's energy need, according to World Bank . As a result the country is keen to diversify and start using renewable energy.


"Morocco is an emergent country," Yassir Badih, senior project manager at Masen told CNN.
"Electricity demand has doubled since 2010 and by 2030 we want Morocco to be one of the first countries in the world for renewables to exceed share of fossil energy."

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/06/moto ... index.html


Masen (Moroccan Agency for Sustainable Energy) is a privately owned company with public funding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_ ... ble_Energy


A great forward thinking move from Morocco with the right climate for solar energy. A reduction of reliance on other countries and a positive direction to the future.

A start up with former Tesco chief executive Sir Dave Lewis as executive chair is planning to build the world’s longest undersea electric cable, stretching 3,800km between north Africa and Britain.

Xlinks is proposing to complete the £16bn Morocco UK link by the end of this decade, delivering enough electricity to power more than 7m British homes.

It seems great Countries with the right conditions being it Wind, Solar, Water can be integrated to help distribute electricity when required.

They need to find a bob or two first though.

Dorset_Boy

Seems Manchester United don't give a shit about the enviroment though:
https://bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58938198

100 mile flight to Leicester match.

mully79

Dorset_Boy said:

Seems Manchester United don't give a censored about the enviroment though:
https://bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58938198

100 mile flight to Leicester match.

29g more CO2 used on a domestic flight per km per person all being equal except there was heavy congestion so the bus would have probably used 25% more fuel and therefore 25% more CO2.

The BBC could have wrote the headline “Manchester United at the forefront of Carbon reduction travel by accurately comparing travel options under real world circumstances” but no one would be interested on reading it.

pblakeney

Anyone want to add up the emissions used for everyone to get to the Manchester airport, from the Leicester airport to the match, and return? Not to mention time.

Dorset_Boy

mully79 said:

Dorset_Boy said:

Seems Manchester United don't give a censored about the enviroment though:
https://bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58938198

100 mile flight to Leicester match.

29g more CO2 used on a domestic flight per km per person all being equal except there was heavy congestion so the bus would have probably used 25% more fuel and therefore 25% more CO2.

The BBC could have wrote the headline “Manchester United at the forefront of Carbon reduction travel by accurately comparing travel options under real world circumstances” but no one would be interested on reading it.

Are the emissions not greatest at take off and landing?
No other domestic flights would be 100 miles.
So the normal calculations won't apply, plus as said by pblakeney, you need to add in 25+ people getting to and from the airports.
It has been an utterly ignorant action by MU

Jezyboy

mully79 said:

Dorset_Boy said:

Seems Manchester United don't give a censored about the enviroment though:
https://bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58938198

100 mile flight to Leicester match.

29g more CO2 used on a domestic flight per km per person all being equal except there was heavy congestion so the bus would have probably used 25% more fuel and therefore 25% more CO2.

The BBC could have wrote the headline “Manchester United at the forefront of Carbon reduction travel by accurately comparing travel options under real world circumstances” but no one would be interested on reading it.

You've confused the bus with the coach.

bobbygloss

Not sure if this has been posted before, electricity production and relative CO2 emissions around the world
https://app.electricitymap.org/zone/NO-NO2

It shows how much of the installed capacity of each type is being used throughout the day, and export flows.

pinno

Wow!

Queensland, Australia - that's something and no data for China.

mully79

It’s scary. Australia plan to move away from coal fired power stations by 2040 ! ffs

pinno

...and they have all that sun.

Like Saudi Arabia.

https://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/05/28/saudi-arabia-solar-power-exports-absolutely-realistic/

Wheelspinner

mully79 said:

It’s scary. Australia plan to move away from coal fired power stations by 2040 ! ffs

Perhaps just a teensy bit of perspective in your outrage may help.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/859266/number-of-coal-power-plants-by-country/

And

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/30/five-asian-countries-80-percent-new-coal-power-investment

But yeah, Australia is the problem here. Did I miss your rant about those other countries?

I won’t bother arguing whether we (as in Australia) are statistically “bad” when it comes to power generation, because clearly we could do better. A lot better. But so what, because if we quite literally switched off the entire country overnight the world would not notice a blip in the global climate parameters. We’re too small. That picture of Queensland @pinno picked ignores the fact that its an area 7 times larger than the whole UK, but has about 1/13 of your population. Huge tracts of it have absolutely nothing but dirt, or swamp and critters. So what if a few bricks of coal were burned to keep a light on in the pub at Birdsville.

Complaining that Australia doesn’t have widespread solar generation *right now* is no more sensible than asking why doesn’t the UK have a vast solar supply network already built in Spain *right now* for their use. There’s lots of sun in Spain isn’t there? It’s as close to you as the Simpson Desert is to Brisbane for example. And you have a lot more people to stump up the taxpayer funding to cover the cost. Whats your excuse?

The sheer amount of stupid, uninformed fake outrage going around about how Oz is to blame for the whole climate sh!tstorm is just ridiculous.

You want to make a difference? Switch off Bitcoin, there’s an easy win.

Stop the gigantic waste of resources that is professional “entertainment” industry - sports in particular.

An example question: why does Australia mine and ship coal to China?

Answer: In part, so they can build factories and run them to produce (synthetic) material merchandise to on-ship to Europe and the UK. Once there, huge crowds will buy and wear it when they travel great distances to gather in vast concrete and steel stadiums and waste a few hours watching a bunch of people kick a ball round following some arbitrary rules.

Pick any major pro sport and the same analysis applies. Hell, pick any pro sport at all and you have the same issue.

Red Bull. Everything they sponsor is utterly wasteful, never mind the product they flog to generate the cash to do it. Air Race? Cliff Diving? F1? If you’ve ever bought a can of that cr@p, you’re a contributing sponsor to environmental vandalism on a massive scale.

Tell Bezos and Musk and Branson to put their d!cks back in their pants and stop wasting billions on space travel for fun. It’s pointless, just more reality TV. There was even a space program I saw somewhere recently with a stated aim of putting the first woman and first “person of colour” on the moon, as if that is somehow a meaningful and worthwhile achievement. WTAF?

Its also about time humans realised that they really aren’t meant to live to 100, and the gigantic waste of money and resource that occurs in the “health”, aged care and medical industries is somewhere between little and nothing to actually do with your health. Those industries simply work on the basis that its a lot harder to get money out of dead people than live ones, so they look for ways to keep people “living” a lot longer. The fact is the only real winners are the companies (and individuals) collecting the cash for longer. People still die eventually, now just much older, at a more predictable time and considerably poorer.

There are whole other industries specifically built to make money from those now dead people, once the medical guys have had their cut. Funeral parlours, casket makers, gravestone masons, psychic mediums…

The University of Liverpool offers a Master’s Degree for study of… The Beatles. Seriously.

There’s any number of things that “we” do that are utterly unjustifiable and unsupportable from an ecological viewpoint.

Australia sets poor standards in our energy use, no argument. We’re a pretty small and insignificant bit of the whole shebang though.

The human race is doomed, no question. Climate change may be a contributing factor in the demise, but I reckon just plain old stupidity and greed, combined with selfish arrogance and over-breeding will be the real killer. A collective global Darwin Award moment is coming.

shirley_basso

That post reminds me of the debating scene in Old School. A few points docked for the final paragraph, though.

pinno

I don't think anyone expressed 'outrage' spinner.

Back to Queensland:
You say '1/3rd of the population' so per capita that's huge Carbon output.
Carbon intensity: Queensland 708g, UK 177g (population of 66m).
Now, I realise that our carbon production is by proxy. i'e, China produces stuff that we consume but we have no comparable and reliable data because there isn't any data for China.
On the other hand, Australia is supplying the coal to India and China and is that carbon production added to Australia's carbon intensity figures on that web site?

In the UK, we have more and more wind power.

Erm - stadia and lighting: We're all cyclists. Paris Roubaix doesn't need floodlights. Although, I am not sure what efficacy some random consumption of electricity does for your argument.

'Over breeding' is not an issue, it's the consumerism in the developed countries that is the issue.
Bloke in Manilla living in a jetty made from rubbish with his 7 children has a carbon footprint that is negligible compared to a family in the West who have 2.2 children, live in semi-detached house, own 2 cars and jet off on holiday every year.

"Tell Bezos and Musk and Branson to put their d!cks back in their pants and stop wasting billions on space travel for fun. It’s pointless, just more reality TV. There was even a space program I saw somewhere recently with a stated aim of putting the first woman and first “person of colour” on the moon, as if that is somehow a meaningful and worthwhile achievement. WTAF?"

I agree.

You selected some pretty random examples of pointless pursuits but take the Red bull company for example. I am sure that their activities pale into insignificance compared to the carbon output of coal fired power stations.

Bitcoins - yes, huge servers that suck massive amounts of energy.

What is required is critical mass. I watched a program where they were showing an example of a herd of cattle that produce less methane and don't require additional feeds, are happy on mixed clover and other greenery and the significance of food waste and the sources of certain food products (Soya?) that contribute to agriculture and deforestation. It seems that finally, we are looking at multiple facets that contribute to climate change in a way we didn't even 5 years ago.
Climate change is now mainstream. It's on the news on a daily basis and with extreme weather patterns the issue is omnipresent.

Ultimately, there should be a second industrial revolution; that being green energy and green technology because now, the incentive is there. Climate change is on everybody's lips - floods in China are events that may catalyse change. And with some irony, the Chinese are very open to change and have the resources to facilitate that change more than established economies.

If every developed country can reduce their carbon footprint by 10% (this really isn't too difficult with the will), it would make a massive difference.

Lets:
Reduce our consumption of red meat
Reduce our consumption of dairy products
Reduce our food wastage
Increase the amount of renewable energy
Improve housing [the money and grants available in Scotland for domestic improvement right now is incredible. From external wall cladding to cavity wall insulation to underfloor insulation to double glazing https://www.ecosaveinstallations.co.uk]
Reduce our reliance on fossil fuels
Plant seagrass
Plant trees
Plant Kelp

etc etc etc

The above is all perfectly doable without really, much heartache.

Oh and... 100 year old granny living in a bungalow ain't consuming much.
20 something wanting the latest iphone, a tablet and contemporary clothing, a snazzy car and a week in Majorca giving it large however...

rjsterry

On the space flight point, emissions per passenger are apparently roughly 100 times that of conventional flights. However, less than 600 people have ever been into space - equivalent to just over two fully loaded 787s, so I think we can discount billionaire space tourism as the thing that will end the human race.

pblakeney

I think the point is that the time and money could be better spent fixing this planet instead of planning to ruin another one.

rjsterry

pblakeney said:

I think the point is that the time and money could be better spent fixing this planet instead of planning to ruin another one.

It's not that much time or that much money. People just see the word billionaire and assume it must be bad.

rick_chasey

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

I think the point is that the time and money could be better spent fixing this planet instead of planning to ruin another one.

It's not that much time or that much money. People just see the word billionaire and assume it must be bad.

a barely relevant point I would like to share:

There is an argument, which I find more or less convincing depending on what side of the bed I get out of, that billionaires are a symptom of a market failure.

Jezyboy

rick_chasey said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

I think the point is that the time and money could be better spent fixing this planet instead of planning to ruin another one.

It's not that much time or that much money. People just see the word billionaire and assume it must be bad.

a barely relevant point I would like to share:

There is an argument, which I find more or less convincing depending on what side of the bed I get out of, that billionaires are a symptom of a market failure.

To come up with a barely relevant reply...

I'm a lot more relaxed about SpaceX etc, now that I see them as giant STEM outreach programs.

I guess that's an example of Billionaires filling in for what might have been seen as a government role in the past.

pangolin

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58982445

COP26: Document leak reveals nations lobbying to change key climate report

The leak reveals Saudi Arabia, Japan and Australia are among countries asking the UN to play down the need to move rapidly away from fossil fuels.

pblakeney

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

I think the point is that the time and money could be better spent fixing this planet instead of planning to ruin another one.

It's not that much time or that much money. Some People just see the word billionaire and assume it must be bad.

FTFY

rick_chasey

Jezyboy said:

rick_chasey said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

I think the point is that the time and money could be better spent fixing this planet instead of planning to ruin another one.

It's not that much time or that much money. People just see the word billionaire and assume it must be bad.

a barely relevant point I would like to share:

There is an argument, which I find more or less convincing depending on what side of the bed I get out of, that billionaires are a symptom of a market failure.

To come up with a barely relevant reply...

I'm a lot more relaxed about SpaceX etc, now that I see them as giant STEM outreach programs.

I guess that's an example of Billionaires filling in for what might have been seen as a government role in the past.

This is a very Victorian approach and I genuinely thought the 20th century experience and the socialist lens would have done away with this thinking, but I guess time is a flat circle.

To pull it back on thread, relying on the whims of billionaires won't save the world from climate change.

focuszing723

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN23g3r3SJg

Musk wasn't born a Billionaire, he emigrated from South Africa and worked his nuts off in the US. His liberty to do what he is doing now hasn't been easy and he's come close to bankruptcy.

rick_chasey

He's not gonna sleep with you. Relax.

focuszing723

Well Chasey, it's just your constant hard done by moaning gets boring. It's always someone's fault.

rick_chasey

focuszing723 said:

Well Chasey, it's just your constant hard done by moaning gets boring. It's always someone's fault.

If you get close enough, he might call you a pedo.

focuszing723

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

Well Chasey, it's just your constant hard done by moaning gets boring. It's always someone's fault.

If you get close enough, he might call you a pedo.

Oh, grow up Chasey.

seanoconn

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

Well Chasey, it's just your constant hard done by moaning gets boring. It's always someone's fault.

If you get close enough, he might call you a pedo.

Oh, grow up Chasey.

He can’t, he’s fully grown.