London Bridge Incident

meanredspider

Rick Chasey wrote:

They've had their own islamic terrorism. Look up the Hofstadgroep.

Seriously? 12 years ago, one guy is murdered and they try to build a bomb with the wrong fertiliser There are guys I went to school with who would have made more effective terrorists (probably about the same distance back in time).

But you help me make my point. There are certainly the other elements that would be present in France, Germany, Belgium and U.K. and, pretty much, limitless drugs. And these clowns are the result in the last 2 decades.

meanredspider

Shortfall wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/is-this-the-tobacco-moment-for-cannabis-8349054.html

An interesting piece on the link between marijuana and mental illness.

No doubt there are links. The son of my next door neighbours had fried his brains on the stuff. But he was completely useless not a rabid terrorist.

meanredspider

There are around 1 million young drug users in the UK (15%)

http://www.drugwise.org.uk/how-many-people-use-drugs/

And yet pretty much the only ones that head out and kill random people are Islamists.

mamba80

Shortfall wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/is-this-the-tobacco-moment-for-cannabis-8349054.html

An interesting piece on the link between marijuana and mental illness.

i think with limited resources, then acting on info that a known jihadist is trying to enter your country is a better bet at limiting terrorism.
from the report....
But the connection is not straightforward. Susceptibility to schizophrenia depends on genetic inheritance, but this in turn is highly complex since 62 genes so far have been identified as contributing to vulnerability to psychosis. Social and personal stress play a role, with immigrants and people from areas which are socially fragmented more likely to suffer from schizophrenia.


But sure, look at your claims as a phd study or similar.

john80

Shortfall wrote:

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/06/tony-blairs-sister-in-law-says-terror-attacks-are-because-of-drugs-not-religion-6688073/

Islamist convert and former journalist Lauren Booth has also made the connection.

This is the best bit of deflection I have seen all year. The poor young men. Cannabis made them do it. Can't wait to see the clinical evidence for this assertion. Does not explain the large percentage of my class mates who liked a toke and are not running about killing people. Maybe they need more time to be radicalised.

shortfall

john80 wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/06/tony-blairs-sister-in-law-says-terror-attacks-are-because-of-drugs-not-religion-6688073/

Islamist convert and former journalist Lauren Booth has also made the connection.

This is the best bit of deflection I have seen all year. The poor young men. Cannabis made them do it. Can't wait to see the clinical evidence for this assertion. Does not explain the large percentage of my class mates who liked a toke and are not running about killing people. Maybe they need more time to be radicalised.

Why is it deflection? I'm not saying it's an excuse, I'm saying it is a common theme in the perpetrators of this type of recent savage violence. I'm not saying it's the only cause and if you read back through my posts on this thread I am careful to acknowledge that many people indulge in marijuana and continue to function as normal human beings. Anecdotal evidence about your friends doesn't add much to the debate and is about as useful as people who ignore the harmful effects of smoking on the grounds that their grandad who lived to be 90 smoked 40 Capstain Full Strength every day of his adult life. This is precisely why I think that a). The authorities should be specifically looking for any evidence that these mass murderers have a history of taking mind altering drugs such as cannabis, and b). Undertaking some kind of study to establish if the use of cannabis is a causal factor in warping their minds to the extent that they are vulnerable to radicalisation and prepared to launch acts of extreme savagery and indiscriminate violence. Don't worry, I know it won't happen, I just think maybe it should and I'm baffled why so many people appear so vehemently opposed to the idea of proper research.

rick_chasey

meanredspider wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

They've had their own islamic terrorism. Look up the Hofstadgroep.

Seriously? 12 years ago, one guy is murdered and they try to build a bomb with the wrong fertiliser There are guys I went to school with who would have made more effective terrorists (probably about the same distance back in time).

But you help me make my point. There are certainly the other elements that would be present in France, Germany, Belgium and U.K. and, pretty much, limitless drugs. And these clowns are the result in the last 2 decades.

They also killed Theo van Gogh.

Terrorists also assassinated the leader of the then biggest party in the Netherlands 9 days before the election. Dutch rules day you can't change candidates half way through s campaign, so the talks post election collapsed fairly quickly, prompting another election.

That's not small fry.

john80

This is the best bit of deflection I have seen all year. The poor young men. Cannabis made them do it. Can't wait to see the clinical evidence for this assertion. Does not explain the large percentage of my class mates who liked a toke and are not running about killing people. Maybe they need more time to be radicalised.[/quote]

Why is it deflection? I'm not saying it's an excuse, I'm saying it is a common theme in the perpetrators of this type of recent savage violence. I'm not saying it's the only cause and if you read back through my posts on this thread I am careful to acknowledge that many people indulge in marijuana and continue to function as normal human beings. Anecdotal evidence about your friends doesn't add much to the debate and is about as useful as people who ignore the harmful effects of smoking on the grounds that their grandad who lived to be 90 smoked 40 Capstain Full Strength every day of his adult life. This is precisely why I think that a). The authorities should be specifically looking for any evidence that these mass murderers have a history of taking mind altering drugs such as cannabis, and b). Undertaking some kind of study to establish if the use of cannabis is a causal factor in warping their minds to the extent that they are vulnerable to radicalisation and prepared to launch acts of extreme savagery and indiscriminate violence. Don't worry, I know it won't happen, I just think maybe it should and I'm baffled why so many people appear so vehemently opposed to the idea of proper research.[/quote]

It is deflection because they reason they have carried out the acts is because they are following an extreme version of islam where in their eyes the killing of basically anyone who does not prescribe to the teachings of their version of religion is an infidel and therefore unfit to inhabit this earth. Smoking marijuana is not the major cause as Lauren Booth would have you believe hence the claim of deflection. Lauren Booth would rather paint a religious group such as Muslims in a better light by pointing out that the Muslim community would like a drug free world. Many people would like this as it is a noble aim however history has not shown this to work too well.

Then we come onto the issue of Marijuana taking presumably leading to Schizophrenia. Whilst there is evidence that the smoking of marijuana can increase the risk this is not overwhelming and similar to genetic risks. Some of the positive symptoms (medical definition not mine) are hallucinations and delusions. Now the problem is that if you tell me that god came to you and told you something from a science perspective I would class this as unlikely. Therefore was this a delusion or a hallucination and therefore have you got Schizophrenia. If this is the case then we could describe all followers of religion with the view that a third party who does not exist physically told them to do something or visited them as having Schizophrenia. The medical profession would likely not diagnose based on this evidence alone as in many cases people make things up consciously to serve their own interests. So there you have the problem. Maybe they do all have Schizophrenia and maybe they don't but given they keep blowing themselves up or getting shot dead it is tricky to do a medical study on this group of individuals.

It is funny I should note that they do not regard themselves as infidels when they drink, take drugs or have sex outside marriage. These are all things that they would happily pass judgement on others and sentence them to death. There does not seem to be much consistency within this group and this would worry if I was to subscribe to their world view. But then I am not a idiot with limited mental function so am easily able to see why it is a bad idea to kill yourself to go to another life. This is before we get into the issue of where all the virgins are coming from. I mean 50 for each man. That is a lot. Are they created by Allah to suit demand or do they come from the pool of women on earth. There is going to be some pissed off jihadis when they learn how to do math and find that this is a Ponzi scheme. I find it hard enough to keep one wife happy never mind 50. Guess they must be pretty subservient but then women's rights is not such a electoral sales pitch for the hard line islamists amongst 50% of the UK's female population.

If it was not so ridiculous with such serious consequences then this would make for a pretty good comedy sketch:)

shortfall

^^^^
@John 80. You appear to be absolutely certain that radical Islam is the only factor involved here, despite the fact that many of these so called Jihadis have previously led lives that involved petty crime, drug addiction, prostitution and alcohol so hardly Islamic. I don't share your absolute certainty and call for examination of the possible link between drug use (which is common among these men) and the ultra violence they go on to act out. I really don't see the harm in looking closely at all the possible correlations and motivating factors before reaching a judgement. Isn't that sensible?

pblakeney

Well, the perpetrators themselves said it was to do with religion so that's something to be going on with...

rick_chasey

Say what?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ge-attacks

Anti-Muslim hate crimes increase fivefold since London Bridge attacks

chris_bass

Shortfall wrote:

^^^^
@John 80. You appear to be absolutely certain that radical Islam is the only factor involved here, despite the fact that many of these so called Jihadis have previously led lives that involved petty crime, drug addiction, prostitution and alcohol so hardly Islamic. I don't share your absolute certainty and call for examination of the possible link between drug use (which is common among these men) and the ultra violence they go on to act out. I really don't see the harm in looking closely at all the possible correlations and motivating factors before reaching a judgement. Isn't that sensible?

but plenty of people take drugs, people of all religions or no religion, if there was a link wouldn't there be other religions doing similar things?

i think these people clearly have something missing in their lives and will try anything to fill it and when that all fails they try to carry out their weird view of what god's will is to ensure their afterlife is better than their actual life.

I also think the lack of a head of islam (kind of like a muslim pope i guess) is a cause of the problems. The qua'ran is so open to interpretation (it states that some passages are clear and concise and others can only be understood by scholars some of whom have their own extreme views it would seem) that it needs someone to point them in at least the right kind of direction or tell them it is ok to take things in context or update bits to better reflect life today. None of this is ever going to happen though.

Pross

I guess it was always going to be a matter of time before what appears to be a revenge attack happened. This is the real aim of those 'inspiring' the terrorists - drive people to retaliation and create further unrest.

rick_chasey

So those who hold Islam as the reason modern terrorisrs attacks occur; how do you justify the most recent attack?

chris_bass

I guess it is kind of an eye for an eye? you attack us we'll attack you (definitely not my view btw)

rick_chasey

Well it does say so in the bible.

chris_bass

is this attacker christian?

veronese68

Chris Bass wrote:

I guess it is kind of an eye for an eye? you attack us we'll attack you (definitely not my view btw)

I'm sure you're right, unfortunately that's the way some people view things.

mr_goo

Already in the wake of this possible revenge attack we have politicians and leaders of the Muslim faith calling for extra policing and more security at mosques in the UK. That is so wrong on all counts. Did we have the same calls for policing at every theatre and cinema after Manchester? Did we have calls for all bridges in the UK to be policed after Westminster and London Bridge attacks? This pulling, left, right and centre of a limited security infrastructure is exactly what these idiots want. We need the police and other services to concentrate on weeding out the filth at source not wait for them at the doors of every mosque, theatre, cathedral, supermarket or wherever.

Jez mon

Mr Goo wrote:

Already in the wake of this possible revenge attack we have politicians and leaders of the Muslim faith calling for extra policing and more security at mosques in the UK. That is so wrong on all counts. Did we have the same calls for policing at every theatre and cinema after Manchester? Did we have calls for all bridges in the UK to be policed after Westminster and London Bridge attacks? This pulling, left, right and centre of a limited security infrastructure is exactly what these idiots want. We need the police and other services to concentrate on weeding out the filth at source not wait for them at the doors of every mosque, theatre, cathedral, supermarket or wherever.

Plenty of people called for more policing more security and in the aftermath of the attacks it seemed there were armed police patrolling everywhere...

rjsterry

Mr Goo wrote:

Already in the wake of this possible revenge attack we have politicians and leaders of the Muslim faith calling for extra policing and more security at mosques in the UK. That is so wrong on all counts. Did we have the same calls for policing at every theatre and cinema after Manchester? Did we have calls for all bridges in the UK to be policed after Westminster and London Bridge attacks? This pulling, left, right and centre of a limited security infrastructure is exactly what these idiots want. We need the police and other services to concentrate on weeding out the filth at source not wait for them at the doors of every mosque, theatre, cathedral, supermarket or wherever.

Possibly less need for 'calls' as action was immediately taken. The army was guarding Parliament to free up police, and the pavements on the London bridges are now protected behind barriers. Did you miss this?

rick_chasey

Mr Goo wrote:

Already in the wake of this possible revenge attack we have politicians and leaders of the Muslim faith calling for extra policing and more security at mosques in the UK. That is so wrong on all counts. Did we have the same calls for policing at every theatre and cinema after Manchester? Did we have calls for all bridges in the UK to be policed after Westminster and London Bridge attacks? This pulling, left, right and centre of a limited security infrastructure is exactly what these idiots want. We need the police and other services to concentrate on weeding out the filth at source not wait for them at the doors of every mosque, theatre, cathedral, supermarket or wherever.

Yes that has happened.

There are now anti-terror barriers on the bridge which is a serious pain if you're on a bike.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/c ... 59786.html

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/lo ... 57326.html





And it's now fairly standard for me to come out of my office and see a rozzer with a big gun and it never used to be.

TheBigBean

Any more calls for internment?

rick_chasey

INTERN ALL WHITE VAN DRIVERS

imposter2.0

Rick Chasey wrote:

INTERN ALL WHITE VAN DRIVERS

Impound all white vans.

rick_chasey

TBH, I've never felt safe on the road with a white van around.

True story.

rick_chasey

Has anyone referred to Hopkins as a radical preacher yet?

TheBigBean

I haven't seen many apologies coming forth. My understanding was that if you share the same skin colour and / or theoretically share the same religion it is beholden on you to apologise for any undesirable actions.

Yes, I know, that only seems to hold true in a them and us scenario where them is the minority.

imposter2.0

TheBigBean wrote:

I haven't seen many apologies coming forth. My understanding was that if you share the same skin colour and / or theoretically share the same religion it is beholden on you to apologise for any undesirable actions.

Yes, I know, that only seems to hold true in a them and us scenario where them is the minority.

Exactly. Also, the 'white van-driving community' is being suspiciously quiet on this.....

coopster_the_1st

Imposter wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

I haven't seen many apologies coming forth. My understanding was that if you share the same skin colour and / or theoretically share the same religion it is beholden on you to apologise for any undesirable actions.

Yes, I know, that only seems to hold true in a them and us scenario where them is the minority.

Exactly. Also, the 'white van-driving community' is being suspiciously quiet on this.....

It being a Welsh hire van, the 'Welsh' are being suspiciously quiet as well....