Velon Hammer Series

2

Comments

  • Agent57
    Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    iainf72 wrote:
    I think this is dreadful. Maybe it can be refined but I just don't understand what they're trying to do.

    I'm enjoying it. I love road cycling, but as a spectator at the event I'd rather watch crits or track cycling. Maybe a road race on a mountain or steep incline.

    The point is that as a roadside spectator, cycling is a blink-and-you'll-miss-it spectacle. You stand around for ages for a few seconds of spectating.

    One of the aims of this even as far as I can see is to put the races on small loops so that spectators get more opportunities to see the action.

    The other aspect that I do like is that a bit like the Tour Series, it's more of a team-orientated event. Road races have teams but ultimately there is one winner. Sure, the other riders contribute to it, but one person takes the crown. With this it's more about which is the most well-rounded and strongest team overall. There's a climbing event, and sprinting one and then a handicapped TT.

    I think it does bear some refinement as you suggest. Yesterday's climbing stage saw a group away at the start so the same 7 or so riders Hoovered up most of the points. But this is the first edition. I'm sure they'll review what went well and what didn't, and make changes as necessary.
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • ridgerider
    ridgerider Posts: 2,852
    iainf72 wrote:
    I think this is dreadful. Maybe it can be refined but I just don't understand what they're trying to do.
    Careful Iain...I have this image of you and Rick as two OAPs at Hove on a cold windy Tuesday afternoon, along with about a dozen other spectators, watching the tail end of a 3 day county match peter out into a long drawn out draw, saying "Now this is proper cricket!".
    Half man, Half bike
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Road cycling is a dreadful sport to watch live - It's built for television. Seeing it live may be a great spectacle but there is almost no sporting value.

    To me, todays race resembled the mid stage sprints in a grand tour. Over and over and over.

    The team thing doesn't resonate for me. The dynamic of the sport is different - I can only think of F1 as a sport of teams where there are loads of teams competing against each other at the same time. And in F1 there is the manufacturers to think about but really it's about the individual.

    I get the idea of trying to make it more exciting by making it shorter and more explosive type of racing. Problem with "normal" racing is they've over saturated coverage. I remember back in the 80's, when both Channel 4 and CBS in the US covered the Tour, it always looked really exciting. Because C4 were giving you a 30 minute program with maybe 20 minutes of actual racing, and CBS 1 hour per week. But now we have 5 hours of a flat Giro stage which is impenetrable for anyone new to it.

    I think this is where Velon wanted to go originally - Better produced highlights but as the organisers own the rights it was nearly impossible. But ASO and RCS don't help matters either - Why don't they have well produced archived races available to view for a cost. Instead we get ASO having the C4 TdF footage removed from YouTube and they offer nothing else in exchange.

    The Americas Cup showed how brilliantly produced coverage can pull people in. But Velon just seem to be floundering with throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I haven't caught all that much of this, but the bits I have seem to resemble a road version of track cycling.

    Going around in circles, sprints every 10-15 mins.


    Iain's right about coverage saturation. Michael Hutchinson covers it here quite well:
    The Tour de France, for most of the 1990s, started with a sequence of 250km sprint stages where nothing ever happened. Nothing.

    In the UK we didn’t care because we didn’t know. The only coverage was a Channel 4 highlights package that included no more than: 1) Miguel Indurain getting a birthday cake; 2) Mario Cipollini arriving at the start dressed as Caesar (the emperor, not the salad); 3) A feature on how much fan-mail Richard Virenque used to get via the Tour post office; 4) any good crashes; 5) the last 5km.

    http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/comme ... g2vGcZB.99
    _
  • ridgerider
    ridgerider Posts: 2,852
    I understand your point Iain. I was brought up on the 30 minute F1 Grand Prix highlight programmes which were jam packed with action. It was a culture shock when they started transmitting races live and actually nothing happens when you see it in real time.

    But cycling has reached the point where the first half of the GTs are dismissed as a sprint stage borefests, where every stage involves a breakaway where everyone follows the 10km/minute gap rule, and all we do now is tune in for the last 15 minutes.

    I don't think Hammer is doing any harm, and if it brings a bit of credibility back to post-GT crowd pleasing crit racing then that's something...
    Half man, Half bike
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Looked like a very large, very long points race to me.
    Just with tarmac instead of wood.
    As for the "A" or "B" races tomorrow.........
    Utter confusion still.
    Apparently Velon have taken a leaf out of the UCI handbook and are changing the rules and the scoring system as they go along.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    iainf72 wrote:
    The Americas Cup showed how brilliantly produced coverage can pull people in. But Velon just seem to be floundering with throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.

    Too right, me and the wife have been glued to the Americas Cup despite not having a clue about sailing (and the wife generally hates sport).
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    3 things for me

    *Races are too long - 2 hrs isnt enough to make people tired anyway so excitement will have to come from elsewhere which can also happen over 1hr. It's clear that teams have nt worked out how to score points so there are no real tactics yet. I would forsee though that these will develop with time.

    *Simplify the sodding points (seriously!!)

    *In this format, the live on bike, in car cameras and graphics actually do really work

    Ridgerider has alluded to this already and is right - this is Twenty20 Cycling. Here, as there, there will remain a place for "test cycling" but there's no reason Cycling can't benefit from a shorter, big hitting, wild bowling style game too.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    Agent57 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    I think this is dreadful. Maybe it can be refined but I just don't understand what they're trying to do.

    I'm enjoying it. I love road cycling, but as a spectator at the event I'd rather watch crits or track cycling.

    Yes that makes sense, except in reality crits and track racing attract relatively little interest.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    I really enjoyed the Revolution events when I went. I also watch a lot of the 6 days etc when on the turbo. In principle I'd watch something like this in that kind of scenario.
  • ridgerider
    ridgerider Posts: 2,852
    It is what it is...do I sense that the riders are enjoying taking part? Presumably it has a low 'overhead' and they just turn up with whatever form they have? When we start reading about pre-hammer altitude training camps, it will be time to re-appraise the format...
    Half man, Half bike
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,821
    So who wins today? The first team to cross the line, or the first rider's team?

    Also, what happens if teams catch each other, can they work together?

    Utter confusion, but putting it down to the fact it's new and teams, spectators and organisers are getting used to it.

    As mentioned before it's like the Tour Series, which is pretty much always enjoyable.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Ridgerider wrote:
    It is what it is...do I sense that the riders are enjoying taking part? Presumably it has a low 'overhead' and they just turn up with whatever form they have? When we start reading about pre-hammer altitude training camps, it will be time to re-appraise the format...

    As Velon is composed of the teams, they're compelled to enjoy it, no? That's in part why I don't think it looks "real".
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,436
    This "chase" thing is the stupidest event in cycling since the Omnium was added to the Olympics. Impossible for teams not to draft off each other. Currently the front three teams are within 4 seconds on the road; wacky races.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    OK, just for curiosity's sake I started watching this TTT thing.
    I've been watching cycling since I was a lad. I've put effort into understanding things like the omnium, and have succeeded.

    I've have literally NO idea what is going on.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • newton98
    newton98 Posts: 35
    This is hilarious, the TT peloton is absolute chaos.
  • philwint
    philwint Posts: 763
    I think it's good fun :D
    Phil

    www.philwinterbourne.co.uk
  • wombly_knees
    wombly_knees Posts: 657
    This is craziness. Brilliant, but crazy.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Streaming live on GCN.

    Utterly mental!
  • Agent57
    Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    That was a fantastic finish!

    Loved it! :D
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • markwb79
    markwb79 Posts: 937
    Come on!

    How could you not have enjoyed that?

    Utter chaos, but cool (and funny) to watch!
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    The Sky/Sunweb duel is actually really interesting
  • tim000
    tim000 Posts: 718
    brilliant
  • wombly_knees
    wombly_knees Posts: 657
    Superb finish. I liked today's quite a bit.
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,436
    edited June 2017
    That finish was hilarious. Clever tactics by Sky to dive bomb Sunweb into that last corner and then an amazing effort by Tao GH to sprint for the win. Entertaining race for the win in the end, but the peloTTTon behind was a farce.
  • Agent57
    Agent57 Posts: 2,300
    I'm particularly pleased that Tao held on at the end. I thought he was gonna get swamped, but he dug it out.

    Cycling Club Hackney can be proud! :D
    MTB commuter / 531c commuter / CR1 Team 2009 / RockHopper Pro Disc / 10 mile PB: 25:52 (Jun 2014)
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    So my feed must have been slightly delayed based on the above comments.

    But it was pretty exciting!
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    My Man Tao!

    OK, that finish was a lot of fun.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • outsider78
    outsider78 Posts: 38
    iainf72 wrote:
    Road cycling is a dreadful sport to watch live - It's built for television. Seeing it live may be a great spectacle but there is almost no sporting value.

    There was no TV when GT's and classics started, people were following it on newspapers.
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,821
    That was a genuinely exciting finish.

    Props to Orica who made up their deficit in double quick time, but then seemed hamstrung by the fact they had 4 other teams o their wheels

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