So what happens if Labour win?

slowmart

The longer the campaigning goes on the more incapable the tories look.

It would take a massively incompetent campaign for the tories to lose but thats the current threshold of achievement and May's latest misstep is not appearing on the televised debate tonight.


I've got no axe to grind either way but given the electoral results recently it seems nothing is out of bounds with shock results.


What does that mean then? Time travel back to 70's?

BelgianBeerGeek

Slowmart wrote:

The longer the campaigning goes on the more incapable the tories look.

It would take a massively incompetent campaign for the tories to lose but thats the current threshold of achievement and May's latest misstep is not appearing on the televised debate tonight.


I've got no axe to grind either way but given the electoral results recently it seems nothing is out of bounds with shock results.


What does that mean then? Time travel back to 70's?

I refer you to your sig block, and await Stevo's response

mamba80

Slowmart wrote:

The longer the campaigning goes on the more incapable the tories look.

It would take a massively incompetent campaign for the tories to lose but thats the current threshold of achievement and May's latest misstep is not appearing on the televised debate tonight.


I've got no axe to grind either way but given the electoral results recently it seems nothing is out of bounds with shock results.


What does that mean then? Time travel back to 70's?

Well, for starters Stevo will give *me some money and i will magnanimously accept his grovelling apology :x

PS St Lukes will get his money!

PPS it wont happen though..... i think

crispybug2

In my past I was a Labour party campaigner and I'm still in contact with a few people from those days, one of whom has risen very high in the party apparatus.

From what I've heard Labour are expecting a Conservative majority of 90 to 115

craigus89

crispybug2 wrote:

In my past I was a Labour party campaigner and I'm still in contact with a few people from those days, one of whom has risen very high in the party apparatus.

From what I've heard Labour are expecting a Conservative majority of 90 to 115

Percent?

joncomelately

Re: the title of the thread.

We go to hell in a slightly different handcart.

Bobbinogs

Joncomelately wrote:

Re: the title of the thread.

We go to hell in a slightly different handcart.

Yepp, a handcart driven by some leftie loonie who, on the day, actually refuses to start because there is an R in the month and driving under such conditions impinges his human rights, probably.

mr_goo

Laugh.

slowmart

If we look back the considered opinion of the contributors of the relevant threads on this forum was that Brexit wasn't going to happen and Trump wouldn't get through the election process or win the election......

Which could mean we have a narrow demographic of active posters being white, middle aged males who are out of touch with the rest of the country. Or we simply spend too much time cycling and losing ourselves there that we don't pay enough attention to the real world.

meanredspider

Slowmart wrote:

If we look back the considered opinion of the contributors of the relevant threads on this forum was that Brexit wasn't going to happen and Trump wouldn't get through the election process or win the election......

Which could mean we have a narrow demographic of active posters being white, middle aged males who are out of touch with the rest of the country. Or we simply spend too much time cycling and losing ourselves there that we don't pay enough attention to the real world.

Or we just attribute the average Brit/Yank with having far more intelligence than would appear to be the case. I've learned to hope for the best but expect the worst.

ben@31

oxoman wrote:

We go back to the 70s and shortages of everything, power cuts etc. What few cars are running will be gas guzzling ones owned by Labour councillors and mayors. We will be expected to doff our caps to them as well. Coal will be king again and everything including the kitchen sink will be nationalized again. Looks like north Korea might be a better place to be. God help us.

Hopefully we will go back to 70s house prices.
-70s tuition fees for those who have the talent to go to university but are priced out of it.
-I will get the pension that was in my contract when I started this job. Rather than having the tories take it away for "austerity".
-We will go back to full time permanent jobs with a living wage rather than zero hours contracts.
-Medical care will still be available to all those who need it, rather than hospitals asking patients for payment and then turning people away.
-Amazon and Starbucks will pay at least some tax. I call bullish*t on them going elsewhere when the UK provides millions of customers.
-Nationalization means trains are run for us customers rather than for some shareholder. No decline in service to maximise shareholder profits.
-The tories wont be selling off our national assets for a loss (like Royal Mail).

I dont believe the tories work for the interests of the bottom 99% Especially when they make "austerity" cuts from us to give to their top 1%
Is the nation broke? Well, the tories gave RBS £45000000000
And what did RBS do? They still make a huge loss year after year, £58000000000 since the 2008 bailout.
And what happened to those responsible for bad lending and poor trading decisions? Have they been brought to trial? Chief executive Ross McEwan receives a £3800000 bonus as it reports another £2000000000 loss!

meanredspider

ben@31 wrote:

oxoman wrote:

We go back to the 70s and shortages of everything, power cuts etc. What few cars are running will be gas guzzling ones owned by Labour councillors and mayors. We will be expected to doff our caps to them as well. Coal will be king again and everything including the kitchen sink will be nationalized again. Looks like north Korea might be a better place to be. God help us.

Hopefully we will go back to 70s house prices.
-70s tuition fees for those who have the talent to go to university but are priced out of it.
-I will get the pension that was in my contract when I started this job. Rather than having the tories take it away for "austerity".
-We will go back to full time permanent jobs with a living wage rather than zero hours contracts.
-Medical care will still be available to all those who need it, rather than hospitals asking patients for payment and then turning people away.
-Amazon and Starbucks will pay at least some tax. I call bullish*t on them going elsewhere when the UK provides millions of customers.
-Nationalization means trains are run for us customers rather than for some shareholder. No decline in service to maximise shareholder profits.

..... cheap marijuana to dream stuff up.....

A lot of private pensions were fukked by Gordon B

Pross

Some rose tinted glasses there. Do you really want 70s hospitals with open shared wards? British Rail was a joke (I'd rather a nationalised system in theory but it certainly wasn't efficient when it was one!).

Too many people look back and see the positives whilst forgetting the negatives and vice versa.

ben@31

meanredspider wrote:

..... cheap marijuana to dream stuff up.....

A lot of private pensions were fukked by Gordon B

Is anything I wrote a lie?

If anything Gordon Brown should have stopped bankers from being such reckless gamblers. All of a sudden the bankers want their losses to become nationalised / socialised !

ben@31

Then George Osborne has created more new debt than every single Labour government in history combined.

meanredspider

ben@31 wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

..... cheap marijuana to dream stuff up.....

A lot of private pensions were fukked by Gordon B

Is anything I wrote a lie?

Well, I could respond to each in turn but it's too much effort. All I can say is that the 70s were when the rot really set in. We're well shot of them.

Pross

meanredspider wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

..... cheap marijuana to dream stuff up.....

A lot of private pensions were fukked by Gordon B

Is anything I wrote a lie?

Well, I could respond to each in turn but it's too much effort. All I can say is that the 70s were when the rot really set in. We're well shot of them.

And the fashion was horrendous!

ben@31

meanredspider wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

..... cheap marijuana to dream stuff up.....

A lot of private pensions were fukked by Gordon B

Is anything I wrote a lie?

Well, I could respond to each in turn but it's too much effort. All I can say is that the 70s were when the rot really set in. We're well shot of them.

In the 70s did we have more people who couldn't afford a house? Did we have students straddled with debt ? Did we have families needing to use food banks? Did we have more Nurses, Teachers, Police, Fire and Ambulance ?
Who cares about public service teaching and hospitals, as long as Amazon and Starbucks don't have to pay a £1 of tax and RBS bankers get a £3000000 bonus each for utter incompetence. Because its not like Amazon and Starbucks are struggling to pay the bills with the amount of money they have made.

bendertherobot

It's confusing mind. The let's make Britain great again don't seem to like the thought of a system that existed when it was....

Pross

You might have had more ambulances but they were there to simply scrape you up and drive you to hospital. Sometimes purely looking at numbers is too simplistic. I suspect you have a better chance of surviving a serious accident or emergency now than you did in the 70s.

I'm not convinced housing would have been more affordable in the 70s had the demand been as high as it is now and whilst I accept Council housing was sold off under Thatcher I don't recall that many new Council estates being built in the 70s.

FocusZing

The leftie is a tw@t, of course May can't slag of Trump we need all the export help we can get.

tangled_metal

Laugh at Stevo! The most spectacular fail with his Labour thread.

meanredspider

ben@31 wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

..... cheap marijuana to dream stuff up.....

A lot of private pensions were fukked by Gordon B

Is anything I wrote a lie?

Well, I could respond to each in turn but it's too much effort. All I can say is that the 70s were when the rot really set in. We're well shot of them.

In the 70s did we have more people who couldn't afford a house? Did we have students straddled with debt ? Did we have families needing to use food banks? Did we have more Nurses, Teachers, Police, Fire and Ambulance ?
Who cares about public service teaching and hospitals, as long as Amazon and Starbucks don't have to pay a £1 of tax and RBS bankers get a £3000000 bonus each for utter incompetence. Because its not like Amazon and Starbucks are struggling to pay the bills with the amount of money they have made.

The bit of the jigsaw puzzle you seem to have not figured is that we need to have an economy in order to pay for all of this good stuff. Who do you think pays for nurses, teachers, police etc - the tooth fairy?

Take a look at this chart to see when it was after the war that the rock steady climb faltered and flattened for the first time. Yes, that'll be the "golden" 70s. I started in industry in the early 80s and everything was totally fukked. Leaking buildings, shagged machinery, terrible work practices.... None exist anymore.



As for the student loan thing - back then we actually believed it was the right thing (and we were students). A friend of mine was denied university at all because her dad was wealthy but did think he should pay for her to go to university. It was means tested. I worked each holiday and still left university with debts which it took me years to pay off because I didn't get the "grant" the kids from poorer families got.

It all looks good with rose-tinted specs but it was shit to live.

fat daddy

bendertherobot wrote:

It's confusing mind. The let's make Britain great again don't seem to like the thought of a system that existed when it was....

out of interest when was it great ????

Jez mon

fat daddy wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

It's confusing mind. The let's make Britain great again don't seem to like the thought of a system that existed when it was....

out of interest when was it great ????

Before we joined the EU of course. Before political correctness and elf and safety.

It would be interesting to know how much the relationship between politics and economic growth is correlation and how much is causation.

ben@31

meanredspider wrote:

Who do you think pays for nurses, teachers, police etc - the tooth fairy?

Its ended up being the lowest 99% who pays for it in the end.

Ive said it many times already on this thread... If the top 1% paid their share of taxes, rather than tax avoidance / evasion. We could could afford it.

What gets me is... when a single mother struggling with a zero hours contract pays forms of taxation, she really notices it. As she didn't have much money to begin with. When a multi millionaire pays taxes, he or she will still live a lavish life of luxury and be able to afford paying the bills, they wont notice the taxation as much.
If I avoid paying tax, what happens? While if the banks are involved with money laundering in the Cayman Islands are they brought to justice?

Before political correctness and elf and safety.

Back when 14 year old kids lost limbs in mill machinery, working over 12 hours a day for 75p a week?

meanredspider

You're still missing the point that we need a healthy and profitable private sector to pay for all the public services and jobs. Manufacturing was roundly screwed in the 70s.

There's no-one who'd be more happy to pay more to the NHS out of my taxes and I already pay more than most.

Stevo_666

meanredspider wrote:

You're still missing the point that we need a healthy and profitable private sector to pay for all the public services and jobs. Manufacturing was roundly screwed in the 70s.

There's no-one who'd be happy to pay more to the NHS out of my taxes and I already pay more than most.

Don't worry, it will all fall out of the magic leftie money tree. Apparently.

Pross

fat daddy wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

It's confusing mind. The let's make Britain great again don't seem to like the thought of a system that existed when it was....

out of interest when was it great ????

Back in the Victorian era - world leaders in manufacturing, engineering, fighting wars. All of this was achieved with social equality too, there were no rich people getting richer from exploiting the work of the poor and no-one was struggling to feed or house themselves. Everyone had a right to free education and healthcare too. (Some of this may not be true).

I would say the closest we've had to a golden era would have been the late 50s to late 60s but it would be a stretch to say there was less poverty.

tangled_metal

Elf and safety was a British thing. First nation to put through serious and considered legislation that has been copied in some form since right around the world. Nothing to do with EU. The UK led, EC/EEC followed as did USA and a lot of others. That was a great act BTW. It has reduced deaths in the workplace dramatically since being enacted.

Following that the UK led again with the development of H&S systems and standards. Just like the BSI provides secretariat for quality systems it did the same for the development of OHSAS 18001 standards.

Sorry but it annoys me when anyone degrades H&S status by linking it to things like political correctness. Occupational health is a really important matter. Political correctness is semantics and wishy washy desire not to offend. I believe offence is sometimes necessary but political.correctness is not. Elf and safety is definitely essential in the workplace. I don't want to see large noticeboards saying XXX number of days since the last death in the workplace (the X above is a number, as in a matter of hundreds of days since the last death, possibly a lot less).

meanredspider

The trouble with H&S is that it has (correctly, IMHO) been put in the hands of those operating a process to identify the risks. This is both open to abuse and, more frequently, stupidity. This stupidity has led to H&S getting tainted where (I agree totally with Mr Metal) it has been hugely effective when done well/properly.