TdF 2017
Comments
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BuckMulligan wrote:Not sure I agree with the sentiments regarding the short(er) stages, I think they make for better racing.
Whenever they have a mega 250km-stage with 5000m of climbing, all the GC-contenders crap themselves and trundle around as though it's a sportive because they're (rightfully) scared of losing bucket-loads of time. On a short, punchy stage everyone is all-guns-blazing because they're all on fresh legs and want to steal the stage and/or a few seconds.
The 100km stage in particular looks like it's designed for a breakaway though; the organisers have to put in something for the non-GC teams to fight for.
In this Giro terms, that's the "I hope they lose their podium" stage 18.
Just 131kms long, but hardly a pop gun blazing."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
BuckMulligan wrote:Not sure I agree with the sentiments regarding the short(er) stages, I think they make for better racing.
Whenever they have a mega 250km-stage with 5000m of climbing, all the GC-contenders crap themselves and trundle around as though it's a sportive because they're (rightfully) scared of losing bucket-loads of time. On a short, punchy stage everyone is all-guns-blazing because they're all on fresh legs and want to steal the stage and/or a few seconds.
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Let's take a look at last year's Tour which had 3 sub 170km Mountain stage.
stage 7 l’Isle Jourdain to Lac de Payolle: Friday 8 July 162.5km
Main GC guys comes in 3;37 behind – no real attacking, arrive together.
Stage 19 22 July 2016 — Albertville to Saint-Gervais Mont Blanc, 146 km
Apart from Bardet’s decent descent, and Froome & Bauke falling off their bike, another snooze.
Stage 20 23 July 2016 — Megève to Morzine-Avoriaz, 146.5 km
GC race effectively neutralised‘cos of wet descent, Izagirre the only one with any balls.
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Too many of you think about these stages in isolation. For a short mountain stage to work, everyone needs to be tired.
Otherwise a strong team like SKy can boss it without any problems. The selection isn't great enough.
You need monster Mountain stages AND short stages - you need the mix. One to tire them out, the other to allow the less tired to make the difference.0 -
It's been pretty light on TTing ever since Prudhomme took control of the race, with a general downward trend. I think he just doesn't like them much as they're not that great for TV.Mad_Malx wrote:Is this Tour deliberately TT light to reduce Frome's advantage?
Edit: Here's a graph of ITT kms in the 21st Century. Prudhomme took over in 2007. There's been a noticeably consistent drop since 2009 (probably the first route he had control over)
Twitter: @RichN950 -
It doesn't have many proper mountain finishes either. Looks pretty uninspiring to me.
Although as always the riders go a long way to making the race.0 -
As usual it will come to down to who avoids the accidents as much as who is on form.0
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DeVlaeminck wrote:No Nibali by the looks of it, more likely to ride Vuelta. Any more favourites confirmed their plans yet - Porte and Froome looking to be there, Quintana too - Aru? Dumoulin? Is Valverde a co-leader or a super domestique and if the latter has anyone told him ?
Valverde has as much a chance of winning as Quintana. cant see Movistar using him as super domestique0 -
Milton50 wrote:It doesn't have many proper mountain finishes either. Looks pretty uninspiring to me.
Although as always the riders go a long way to making the race.
If you want gaps always have a mountain top finish. It usually comes back together if there's a descent to the line.0 -
Fenix wrote:Milton50 wrote:It doesn't have many proper mountain finishes either. Looks pretty uninspiring to me.
Although as always the riders go a long way to making the race.
If you want gaps always have a mountain top finish. It usually comes back together if there's a descent to the line.
unless Froome does another attack.
Not the best route in the world. See they have a stage starting in Verviers in Belgium, great town that seems to shut at 1600 every day.
Cant see anyone beating Froome except himself. Its the riders that make the race though not the route0 -
If all the climbers make it to stage 5, then it will be interesting to see who has the balls to attack, obviously Quintana will make a pointless 250m dash at some point, but hope maybe Contador or Porte can push Froome a bit.
Stages 6 & 7 seems a bit meh, think they could have had at least one rolling type stage to thin out the GC guys before the next mountains0 -
Well Froome has won the first mountain stage every year since 2012, except 2014 when he didn't get that far. So you can probably guarantee he'll attack.kleinstroker wrote:If all the climbers make it to stage 5, then it will be interesting to see who has the balls to attack, obviously Quintana will make a pointless 250m dash at some point, but hope maybe Contador or Porte can push Froome a bit.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
Well Froome has won the first mountain stage every year since 2012, except 2014 when he didn't get that far. So you can probably guarantee he'll attack.kleinstroker wrote:If all the climbers make it to stage 5, then it will be interesting to see who has the balls to attack, obviously Quintana will make a pointless 250m dash at some point, but hope maybe Contador or Porte can push Froome a bit.
He's said his goal for the year is the tour and vuelta double, so I don't think he'll be coming in with the intention of smashing it early. But there's so little opportunity in this year's route he may feel he has to do something every chance he gets."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
Yeah, but defending a lead with a strong team and a TT in hand is less exhausting that chasing it later.gsk82 wrote:He's said his goal for the year is the tour and vuelta double, so I don't think he'll be coming in with the intention of smashing it early. But there's so little opportunity in this year's route he may feel he has to do something every chance he gets.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
Well Froome has won the first mountain stage every year since 2012, except 2014 when he didn't get that far. So you can probably guarantee he'll attack.kleinstroker wrote:If all the climbers make it to stage 5, then it will be interesting to see who has the balls to attack, obviously Quintana will make a pointless 250m dash at some point, but hope maybe Contador or Porte can push Froome a bit.
Agreed, plus he has faded a bit in the third week in the past and whilst I'm not suggesting he is still prone to doing so they'll know that you can never have too much of a lead over your main opponents. If there is time there to be taken then they'll take it and that stage looks tailor made for him.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:RichN95 wrote:
Well Froome has won the first mountain stage every year since 2012, except 2014 when he didn't get that far. So you can probably guarantee he'll attack.kleinstroker wrote:If all the climbers make it to stage 5, then it will be interesting to see who has the balls to attack, obviously Quintana will make a pointless 250m dash at some point, but hope maybe Contador or Porte can push Froome a bit.
Agreed, plus he has faded a bit in the third week in the past
You know he won the stage 18 Mountain Time Trial, right?
Some fade.0 -
The 100km stage (13?) looks interesting. A brave experiment. Could go either way - really exciting with attacks from the gun, and aggressive downhill finish or the whole stage effectively neutralised due to downhill finish. Weather could play a big factor.
Riders: it is hard to see past Froome. He's one of a handful who have the potential to win it, but add in his team and he has a considerable advantage.
Quintana... a tricky one, ridden into form during the Giro or tired from the Giro? Whichever I've always thought that Valverde would always ignore team orders if there was any chance of personal gain.
Porte would appear to have a very good chance, knowing Froome well (his limitations, strengths, body language etc) plus a route that reduces any Froome advantage. But he does have a reputation for struggling over 3 weeks.
Get the feeling ASO designed the route to help Cavendish break the record; hope a racing fit Cav makes it. (First race back the nationals I believe?)0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:DeVlaeminck wrote:RichN95 wrote:
Well Froome has won the first mountain stage every year since 2012, except 2014 when he didn't get that far. So you can probably guarantee he'll attack.kleinstroker wrote:If all the climbers make it to stage 5, then it will be interesting to see who has the balls to attack, obviously Quintana will make a pointless 250m dash at some point, but hope maybe Contador or Porte can push Froome a bit.
Agreed, plus he has faded a bit in the third week in the past
You know he won the stage 18 Mountain Time Trial, right?
Some fade.
Selective quoting there Rick the next line was I am not suggesting he is prone to it!
My point is not that Froome is going to fade just that as he is experienced enough not to turn down chances to attack and gain time early on as he knows being the strongest in week 1 doesn't guarantee you'll be strongest in week 3.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I can't think of an occasion in his victories when he has ever really looked under pressure, save for one day on the Alp when he was ill and even then it wasn't that bad.
He's got it in him to win 5 or more for sure.
He's easily #1 GC rider by quite a distance.
You know it's like that when your former domestiques become your nearest rivals.
Like Landis or Hamilton were ever really going to beat Armstrong.
The amount of big riders going for the Giro just demonstrates how he's in their heads. They know July is a write off, save for an accident.0 -
If we boil down last year, he smashed all the rivals in the TT, one flat, one Mountain, he gained time on a descent, in crosswinds and had a relatively easy time on the MTF finishes, only really losing a bit of time whilst riding a teammate's bike.
The guy in the past has also smashed all of his rivals on MTFs and none have beaten him on form in any TT.
His team is the best and even when they're found wanting during an ambush, his legs can still bail them out.
Even when he's ill he doesn't ship more than a minute on the Alp.
The guy is just a long way ahead of everyone else.
As much as I don't like it.0 -
We should forward that post to Quintana Rick!0
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kleinstroker wrote:We should forward that post to Quintana Rick!
Who, the rider who has never beaten Froome in the Tour?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I can't think of an occasion in his victories when he has ever really looked under pressure, save for one day on the Alp when he was ill and even then it wasn't that bad.
Did it turn out he was ill that day?
I thought there were two occasions when he lost time on the Alp. One when he had a hunger knock and Porte had to go back to the car to get a gel.
Then the other time Porte and Poels had to pace him up the climb and Quintana gained about 1:20. Didn't realise it was illness.0 -
But he really believes he can, and it's just that on the day his legs were bad or wind was blowing in the wrong direction.Rick Chasey wrote:kleinstroker wrote:We should forward that post to Quintana Rick!
Who, the rider who has never beaten Froome in the Tour?0 -
Yeah and I believe I can be KOM on embankment because I once rode it faster than the KOM owner did on that day.
Ain't gonna happen.0 -
Froome hasn't looked great this year, but we will presumably see more at the Dauphine.0
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Froome's bound to be faster in the new jersey colour.Eddy Merckx EMX-3
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Is it just me or am I reading about his bad back more often this year.TheBigBean wrote:Froome hasn't looked great this year, but we will presumably see more at the Dauphine.
It's not often he fails in races but he seems to have done so a couple of times earlier this year...Half man, Half bike0
