Pinno's DIY wax chain lube experiment blog

fudgey

Pinno wrote:

Fudgey wrote:

...the worn chain went in the bin and gear cables replaced. Everything else properly cleaned and reassembled. It was almost like riding a new bike today. And its filthy again....
Life is too short. Just ride the damn things

But you said it.

Sorry, i didnt make that clear - the bike was filthy, i didnt put the mudguards back on and it was wetter out than i thought. Only done 17 miles in my lunch break and the chan/cassette is still spotless.

I try and ride most days in all weather, the bike has done id say 5000miles or more in almost 2 years and that was the first propper strip and full clean, i did wash it often however. So i think £18 for a new 5800 chain in that time is pretty good going considering the lack of maintenance and the odd splash of oil.

My C60 however, that is only used in the dry and and given a lot more TLC.

pinno

1 strip down in 2 years?! You lazy basket.

Mind you, i've seen the state of your bikes in the SKS Patented mudguard alteration thread.

fudgey

And that was only because it was starting to struggle to get gears.

Its a bike, no one got time to keep it spotless and unused haha

The white one from the mudguard thread is now the holiday bike, but ill be buying 5800 105 shifters and front and rear mechs to upgrade it to 11 speed this friday!

I like riding my bikes more than cleaning them. Sorry!

pinno

Fudgey wrote:

I like riding my bikes more than cleaning them. Sorry!

Nah, ya plonker (with all due respect). The whole idea is that I wanted to try and keep the bike transmission cleaner for longer and reduce the time it takes to clean the damn thing.

Look: here's my C40 just recently:



Anyway, given the low tolerances of the 11 speed, you're going to have to clean up your act.

fudgey

The CX-Zero that i have just given the full service to is 11 speed and its only this last month the shifting hasn't been 100%

I do usually have a piece of 45mm trunking cable tied to the down tube to protect the front mech and BB so that helps along with the mudguards. As said, it did get washed but not often cleaned the chain set.

However, when you do find the solution - you will,be a rich man lol!

pinno

I think I am fighting el nino and global warming.
The roads recently have been filthy filthy.

First I have to crack the summer...

fudgey

Yes, its really not great at the moment.
I was hoping to,get another 500 miles in this year to crack 5200 for the year but so far the state of the roads, cold and a recent saddle sore flair up are stealing my motivation...

pinno

Fudgey wrote:

Yes, its really not great at the moment.
I was hoping to,get another 500 miles in this year to crack 5200 for the year but so far the state of the roads, cold and a recent saddle sore flair up are stealing my motivation...

5k is good, fair play to you. Only 300 to go then. (Too knackered to clean your bike).

I have worn out my right hip replacement. Yes, read it again. Still pedalling but it's pedestrian. (Too sore set up the bike stand ).

fudgey

Thats no excuse, i have a Femoro acetabular impingement, labral tear and the onset of osteoarthritis in my left hip, oh and a badly torn (bucket handle tear) of the lateral meniscus in my left knee.

Had a date through Friday for the 23rd of Jan for the hip op (hip hop - whatever ha) so making the most of it this year.

36 and buggered...

Since August and killing myself up some big ol hills in Spain my av speed over 20 miles is typically 19-20mph so that helped the fitness and im trying to keep it up.

Hopefully the recovery wont be too long. Not heard anything about the knee surgery yet.

pinno

I'm going for my referral on the 6th of December.

I'm not comparing notes - I only gave you a snippet anyway.

Unlike running, you can keep cycling with various ailments.
'Knee surgery' - good luck, not fun. Met quite a few people post knee ops.

fudgey

Ok after getting the bike out the car and riding again at lunch time it would seem that the drive train was indeed black after just 17 miles.. Another 15.5 done and back in the car it went.

The saddle sore on my gooch is a more pressing issue right now... How is your wax for that?

pinno

Fudgey wrote:

Ok after getting the bike out the car and riding again at lunch time it would seem that the drive train was indeed black after just 17 miles.. Another 15.5 done and back in the car it went.

The saddle sore on my gooch is a more pressing issue right now... How is your wax for that?

Well... a bit too slippy. That's what she said.

You're quite handy; cable tie this to your seat post (somehow):



No real weight penalty- it's cf.

fudgey

Where from? Ironically when i buy my new house i was thinking of carbon seats for the shitters!

pinno

I have no idea.

I did a 'carbon fibre toilet seat uk' Google search and all the images were all .com. W@nkers. Remember when you could select the region/country at the end of the search bar with the little drop down list, now gone?

fudgey

A quick google shows reverie make carbon bog seats, and being in the automotive game you should have heard of them?
But at £360 a pop it too rich for me!

Ill maybe make a mould of my soft close ones and sell em at half the price!

pinno

Alternatively:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/272551551000?c ... 013&crdt=0

buckmulligan

I've been experimenting with chain waxing this year too and Pinno's experiences sound very similar to my own.

The whole process sounds like a grade-A ballache, which was the primary reason I hadn't tried it sooner, but to be honest in comparison with stripping and degreasing your drivetrain, it's proven much quicker and less messy, hands-on work than scrubbing away at everything with degreaser.

I've never used anything to thin the wax either, just straight up paraffin wax to start with and then I started experimenting with adding PTFE and molybdenum disulphide as per the Friction Facts formula mentioned earlier. As someone mentioned, neither of these dissolve in the wax so you have to swish the chain around a bit more to make sure they stay in suspension and (hopefully) find their way inside the chain rollers/pins. It adds a little bit more faff but I think it improves the smoothness of the chain and the longevity of the treatment, although I'm still topping out at 500 miles between waxings in good, dry conditions. I have a few chains in rotation (2x 105 and 1x Dura Ace), so waxing a whole bunch at once and just sticking a fresh one on when required makes the whole process fairly pain-free.

I made up a whole load of paraffin blocks with the correct quantities of PTFE and MoS2 in, so if anyone is interested in trying it out then give me a shout and I'll stick some up in the Classifieds section. To get a decent grade PTFE and MoS2 powder at a reasonable price, I had to buy a fair amount of it, so I have way more than I'm likely to use any time soon.

pinno

^ Oh good, some positives and thanks for the input.

500 miles in dry weather is excellent. What do you use to lube between waxing?
Have you considered the Nolten speed wax as an alternative as it contains all those extra things? - I presume the PTFE and MoS2 have set you back a bit and just wonder if the Molten speed wax is a cheaper way of doing it.

buckmulligan

I've used Squirt in between waxings before, primarily on the basis that Friction Facts used to recommend it and even supplied a bottle with their UFO chains.

As for Molten Speed Wax, I did check their prices a while back and it worked out that purchasing paraffin wax, PTFE and molybdenum disulphide in bulk was still significantly cheaper. IIRC there weren't any UK retailers selling it, so the shipping costs and rubbish exchange rates made it a bit more expensive than it really should have been.

And secondary to that, as I mentioned above, the PTFE and MoS2 settle out of the molten paraffin, which can make it a bit more difficult to discern when it's contaminated with the small amount of road grit and swarf that your chain still picks up. I prefer to throw it away after a few waxings to keep it fresh, which would be difficult after spending £20 on 1 lb of the MSW.

Also, another good tip that I forgot to mention if you're running an 11-speed drivetrain, is that KMC now make reusable 11-speed quick links. I'm not sure if it's widely known, but whilst the majority of 8-, 9- and 10-speed quick links are rated as reusable, the vast majority of 11-speed ones are not. Sure, you can reuse them and I have done so myself, however in the course of regularly removing my chains to rewax them, they did loosen up significantly and I felt as though I was taking a bit of a risk. I haven't had the reusable 11-speed links for too long, but I'm hoping, seeing that they're now specifically rated as reusable, that they won't loosen up quite as quickly. IMO they're probably worth the investment if you're regularly taking your 11-speed chains off to wax them.

pinno

UK supplier now?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Molten-Speed ... SwAC1aI83u

Yes, I use re-useable quick links. Apparently, the Wipperman connex one's are the best and easiest to remove.

Why couldn't you deploy a mesh at the bottom of whatever heating device you use and agitate the MSW?

zefs

One question about the Squirt wax or the Paraffin solution (which I plan to try after squirt is done). Is it normal for the chain to feel oily when I apply it but sticky after a couple of rides? (I use the bottle, not dip method).
Does sticky mean it needs to re-lube? I've done ~200k's.

markyone

I have done the wax melting in the pot and soaking chains,but for me it has to be squirt lube stays super clean and runs really quiet been using it for a year.

buckmulligan

Pinno wrote:

Why couldn't you deploy a mesh at the bottom of whatever heating device you use and agitate the MSW?

My feeling would be that any agitation sufficient enough to resuspend the PTFE and MoS2 would also be enough to resuspend the fine road grit. Sure, you might be able to separate out some of the denser stuff like sand particles, but if find I get very little of that sticking to the chain with waxing as it is.

This is being very pernickety and based on what I saw when I was using straight paraffin wax; the wax became a little greyer and dirtier with every waxing and a lot of it didn't actually settle out of the molten wax, so after 5 or so treatments (of 2-3 chains at a time, so maybe 12-15 chains total) I decided to chuck it. Obviously this depends a lot on the conditions that you're riding in but would be a lot harder to spot with MSW and/or wax with PTFE+MoS2, so I prefer to err on the conservative side!

pinno

BuckMulligan wrote:

This is being very pernickety and based on what I saw when I was using straight paraffin wax; the wax became a little greyer and dirtier with every waxing and a lot of it didn't actually settle out of the molten wax...

This is exactly what I experienced.

dennisn

To me, all this sounds like another solution to a problem that doesn't exist, except for the ultra fastidious anal clean freaks among us. It's a bike chain not brain surgery or rocket science. Wipe it down once a week or so, add lube as you deem necessary. Once a week, 10 minutes and done. I will admit that my testing has shown that a thoroughly squeaky clean, well oiled chain will bump you up from 15th place to 14th in a cat 5 crit.

pinno

dennisn wrote:

To me, all this sounds like another solution to a problem that doesn't exist, except for the ultra fastidious anal clean freaks among us. It's a bike chain not brain surgery or rocket science. Wipe it down once a week or so, add lube as you deem necessary. Once a week, 10 minutes and done. I will admit that my testing has shown that a thoroughly squeaky clean, well oiled chain will bump you up from 15th place to 14th in a cat 5 crit.

I don't know what roads you cycle on but they are filthy up here in the sticks.

I don't quite understand the dissenters. I strip the transmission every 600 miles in summer and 300 miles (very roughly) in winter.
Method a) Strip transmission and clean with a solvent, then lube with conventional lubricant. Lube and wipe in between. Find an environmentally way to dispose of solvents.
Method b) Strip transmission and immerse in hot wax. No solvents. Lube and wipe in between.

What's the major difference and in what way is one more 'anal' than the other? There isn't much difference between the two methods and it isn't more time consuming and it is an awful lot easier to do.

The difference? Much cleaner chain between stripping. Much slicker gear changes, Much less mess and I hardly ever bother taking the jockey wheels out of the mech cage; grease and wax don't mix nor compromise each other and as there are no aggressive solvents in play, the jockey wheels tend to be almost pristine internally. The cassette is sometimes just left - especially in summer and only cleaned intermittently.

I bought a chain cleaner some 6 years ago and found that cleaning the chain on the bike was solving half a problem. Yes, with a few fills of the chain cleaner reservoir, you can get the chain really clean but it still poses a few questions and presents a few problems:

Is the chain cleaner diluting any lubricants in the jockey wheels?
The left overs from filling the reservoir in a chain cleaner still have to be disposed of and if you strip the transmission and use a solvent to clean it all, it's the same.
The chainset will still require a brush and some de-greaser or similar to clean properly - it's a doddle to clean wax off.
The chain cleaner does not clean the cassette and that needs to be dismantled if you are going to get it properly clean. Yes, you can use a rag between the cogs but are you leaving degreaser residue or lint from the cloth?
Can you guarantee that you are lubing the chain properly after using a de-greaser as opposed to immersing it in a warm wax bath?

On the long run, reducing friction in amongst all the moving bits will prolong the life of them.

Bowstos

Hey, I stripped down and waxed my chain last week. The reason being that I'd love to never get another chain tattoo or clothes with black line across. The watts advantage I'm not bothered about, I just hate getting oil all over me.

I ordered two kilos of candle paraffin wax from eBay and followed the meticulous guidance from Molten Speed Wax.

I have to confess, I got bored waiting for the wax and broke up a load of tea candles I had lying about for the first dip.

Quality of the wax for the first dip was obviously dubious, but paraffin wax is paraffin wax, right???

Anyway, I put in about 150km on the turbo before heading out on Saturday morning for 2hrs. Road was a bit damp/wet but it wasn't raining.

When I got back I hosed the bike down, gave the drive train a fast spin and put the bike away.

Next day there was spot rust on the chain, particularly around the rollers.

Was a bit disappointed to see this after one wet ride, but maybe I've done something wrong.

So today I reheated the wax (left in an old rice steamer in the garage), popped the chain in and left it for 30mins.

It looks like most of the rust has come off, but I'm pretty sure a lot of it will continue to corrode under a beautiful new wax coating.

What have others done when rust starts to rear its head?

Bowstos.

pinno

We're still trying to solve the winter conundrum.

tonysj

Pinno wrote:

We're still trying to solve the winter conundrum.

Been reading some of this post over the last few weeks and its very ibteredting but it's probably too much hassle for me to do but had anyone tried applying ACF 50 spray to the finished chain?
I don't know if it will solve the rusting issue but it's worth a go!!
I use it over winter to protect my motorbike..
Regards.
Tony

pinno

TonySJ wrote:

Pinno wrote:

We're still trying to solve the winter conundrum.

Been reading some of this post over the last few weeks and its very ibteredting but it's probably too much hassle for me to do but had anyone tried applying ACF 50 spray to the finished chain?
I don't know if it will solve the rusting issue but it's worth a go!!
I use it over winter to protect my motorbike..
Regards.
Tony

Any sort of conventional lubricant will prevent you from dunking a dirty waxed chain in the hot wax and for it to come out clean - this is the beauty of waxing; there's no stripping of any lubricant or solvents once you have done it the first time around.